RADA graduate walks free over 'sleepwalk rape'

I'm not sure if anyone is familiar with the American tv series The Shield that ran for seven seasons, was a great show.
Anyway in one episode a man claims he "might" have hurt someone while sleep walking.
Turned out in the end he killed his ex-wife.

well seing as he says he raped here while sleep walking,i think the best thing they could have done is send him to prison every night and let him free in the morning!

I don't know.

I once woke up in my car trying to go for a drive. So I suppose anything is possible.

Thankfully I did not have the key.

Originally posted by NovusOrdoMundi

Accepting responsibility for your actions does work both ways. I agree. But that is not the case here. Doing something stupid while under the influence of an uncontrollable medical condition is not the same as doing something stupid and intentionally and knowingly putting yourself in a vulnerable position.

As I said in my previous post, I also agree that this defense will be used by men accused of rape. But that is why each case should be judged differently. You cannot just assume every man accused of rape is guilty. By the same token, you cannot just assume every man who uses the sleepwalking defense is telling the truth.

Each case is different with different parameters and variables. That is why weighing all the evidence involved and attempting to understand the "why's?" of each individual case is important. If you want to give a fair trial, you cannot write rules on how each trial should be conducted. You have to adjust to each case as if it were unique and go forward from there.

In a perfect world, that is how our justice system would work. In our world, it's all about the money for both the prosecution and defense.

I quoted your entire post because I thought it was perfect in it's entirety. You're exactly right. Each case should be individualized. Anyone claiming a medical exemption for a crime committed should have to undergo sleep studies to prove their claim. Even then, someone who knows they have the disorder may commit crimes while fully conscious and just blame it on the disorder. *shrugs*

Most bars/clubs I've ever heard of offer a reduced drinking fee for females. First time I heard it advertised on the car radio I thought, "Are the fishermen dangling brightly colored hooks for the fish these days? Does anyone ever fall for that gimmick?" Apparently, a lot of women are duped by the promise of cheap beer.

The enzyme needed to break down alcohol in females is naturally 1/3 the amount of that possessed by males. Women who try to keep up with men in the drink for drink arena are starting out with a chemical disadvantage.

And apologies to my sisters out there but you don't get to repeatedly wave the red cape in front of the bull and then slap it on the rump for charging you. You can't say, "Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes" and then at the last possible second, say "no".

All things are possible, however, I can't say if this guy is for real or not. I'm one to hope this is not a new "get out of jail" manuever for every Tom, Dick, or Harry to avoid the consequences for murder, rape, robbing, and embezzling (quite a few CEOs would definitely use this excuse).

Originally posted by whitewave



The enzyme needed to break down alcohol in females is naturally 1/3 the amount of that possessed by males. Women who try to keep up with men in the drink for drink arena are starting out with a chemical disadvantage.

And apologies to my sisters out there but you don't get to repeatedly wave the red cape in front of the bull and then slap it on the rump for charging you. You can't say, "Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes" and then at the last possible second, say "no".

I disagree with you on your last point. If a woman decides at the last possible second she does not want to go through with sex the man should respect her wishes. Yes he has a right to be irritated and leave but to do otherwise is rape. No I don't advocate women play the "lets get him excited game" so many play today however rape is rape. Forcible sex is rape does not matter who the aggressor may be it is rape.

A woman who goes out and get herself intoxicated is playing Russian Roulette
because as your last statement attest to there will be those males who will disregard her last second no.

However the subject at hand is bizarre to say the least being raped by a man who's sleep walking, absolutely bizarre.

Okay say this was a reoccurring problem for him. This sexomania, sleepwalking sex condition of his. He knew about it, it had happened before many times.

You guys are all taking about taking responsibility. Right?

So where does that start. It starts with him. He had foreknowledge of what could happen. Did he educate her? Did he choose to get drunk and go home with her and not tell her that he sleepsexes people?

Sorry, if he truly sleepraped her, then he should be punished to the full-extent simply because he knew of his conditions and took no precautions and did not warn the victim.

If someone with a diagnosed epilepsy has a seizure while driving, resulting in a car accident that kills someone, as a result of choosing not to take the anti-seizure meds, that person is going to feel the force of the Law.

I'm not defending this guy, but there's a big difference between being half awake/sleepy/groggy and being aroused and trying to get some from your partner/or whoever and sexsomnia.
People who have sexomnia have absolutely no memory of the event at all or the feelings they had before the event took place because they are asleep. There is a huge tendency to be in denial when you have this disorder. My husband tried telling me several times over ten plus years, but I would not believe him. I just couldn't come to terms with the fact that I could do something like that and not remember any of it...nothing at all, zip, zilch, nada....nothing!

When asked if he had raped the woman while sleepwalking, Mr Walker responded: 'I would definitely wake up before that point. 'I don't believe that I would do something like that and not wake up.' Read more: www.dailymail.co.uk...

One would think you'd wake up, but most people who have sexsomnia don't wake up at all. What this quote says to me is either the guy was in total denial of this, and probably never heard of sleepsex before-- ( I know it was like this for me.) or figured if he was sleeping he would of surely woke up during it and since he didn't wake up, he says he couldn't have done it.

This man learned a hard lesson and he's going to have to make adjustments in his life to deal with this disorder.

Just like the poster said if someone knows they have epilepsy and drives and hurts someone, he should be punished. But if he doesn't know he has epilepsy and drives and hurts someone, it is an unfortunate accident.

I also agree that this man should be tested for this disorder. Too many people can claim having it and get away with rape, murder, etc. People, if you think you might have this, you'd better get it documented and take precautions so that something like this doesn't happen to you--and the person you hurt.

[edit on 21-10-2009 by virraszto]

Originally posted by silver tongue devil
Okay say this was a reoccurring problem for him. This sexomania, sleepwalking sex condition of his. He knew about it, it had happened before many times.

You guys are all taking about taking responsibility. Right?

So where does that start. It starts with him. He had foreknowledge of what could happen. Did he educate her? Did he choose to get drunk and go home with her and not tell her that he sleepsexes people?

I'm assuming he didn't know he had this condition. Lets say he knew so he would be required to inform his friends,family members, and or acquaintances to let them know before any sleepovers took place.

If he knew but failed to informed any potential victims he was negligent.
If it happens again and he was (or wasn't) receiving treatment then it would be perfectly reasonable for him to reside in a control atmosphere until he has some level of control. It is hard to excuse a person who has raped someone even if they were asleep while violating. These people can't just be allowed to continue "sleepraping" members of society somebody will have to assume control of the situation, even if it means doing so through the use of a jail cell.

Sorry, if he truly sleepraped her, then he should be punished to the full-extent simply because he knew of his conditions and took no precautions and did not warn the victim.

That's exactly what I'm talking about, if his condition is real and he knew about it prior. If this person knew they had this problem and did nothing or worst yet was in treatment and still raped then he must be put in a controlled environment for his own good. Can you imagine the madhouse society would become if people had this crutch to lean on?

If someone with a diagnosed epilepsy has a seizure while driving, resulting in a car accident that kills someone, as a result of choosing not to take the anti-seizure meds, that person is going to feel the force of the Law.

Yes I can see a person being charged with a crime for failing to take their medications but if they didn't know they had the condition it's another story.

Exactly where was the rape? What testimony does the woman offer that indicates force was used?

Here is here version from the article.

Earlier the woman, who cannot be named for legal reasons, had been out drinking with Mr Walker and other RADA students at the University of London Union bar in the centre of the city before they came back to sleep in the living room. She told the court she awoke to find Mr Walker was having sex with her.

She said: 'I felt like this weird sensation had woken me up. I have no idea how my clothes were removed.'

The woman said she felt 'revolted' and 'repulsed' by the realisation of what was happening. 'I pulled my pyjamas back up so they were fully on and I moved away from him and back on to the cushions,' she told the jury.

Read more: www.dailymail.co.uk...

Note she never states he used any force. She moved away from him, and he did not try to stop her. She doesn't say if he was asleep or not, but it seems like he was still asleep.

According to her, she was having sex with him in her sleep, so she has the same problem, that of the condition of sleep copulation.

How does anyone know that she didn't instigate the sex act in her sleep.

Especially since she was the one who woke up, while he seemed to be so deeply in sleep, he didn't wake up.

If she truly felt violated at the time, why didn't she wake everyone up at that time, and file a complaint.

Also note that she then returned to the cushions where she had been sleeping. How did she wind up where he was sleeping? Looks like she went to him, as opposed to visa versa. She "moved away from him, and BACK onto the cushions".

I would think she would have woke up if he dragged her over to where he was sleeping.

edit to correct syntax error.





[edit on 21-10-2009 by poet1b]

reply to post by poet1b


Based on the article alone I see your points.

Based on what little is provided in the article, there is valid enough reason to think she could have instigated herself while sleeping (however that works), or it could have been mutual while sleeping (however that works).

All we know based on the article is that she woke up naked having sex (or getting sexed). If he was still sleeping at this point then it's hard to ascertain who was the culprit when they were both sleeping.

Again though, I did mention in the article that Walker admitted to having an issue with initiating sex with his girlfriend while asleep. Did he warn this girl?

reply to post by silver tongue devil


I suspect just about everyone has gone through this experience with initiating sex while asleep.

This includes both women, as well as men.

What would be the warning?

If you make your way over to where I am sleeping at night and start spooning me, there is a chance something further could happen while we are still sleeping?

It certainly isn't a case for rape. There is no mention of force or attempted coercion here. The guy should not have been charged.

Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by silver tongue devil

 

I suspect just about everyone has gone through this experience with initiating sex while asleep.

To my knowledge this has never happened to me. Others in this thread have voiced it, but as far as I know I have never sleepsexed anyone.

This includes both women, as well as men.

What would be the warning?

"Okay this might sound weird but I have a history of taking off peoples clothing and attempting sex when I am asleep"

If you make your way over to where I am sleeping at night and start spooning me, there is a chance something further could happen while we are still sleeping?

1. That something further being: sometimes when I fall asleep I take off others clothing and attempt sex with them. Yes that would be something he could say after she crawls over to spoon with him. Not sure why that doesn't make sense to you.

It certainly isn't a case for rape.

Perhaps not, you're right. We have very little detail from this article.
Do you have a comment about his foreknowledge about his history of sleepsex, and my epilepsy-car accident analogy?

There is no mention of force or attempted coercion here.

Of course it's a different playing field when we are talking about sleeping people. Rape is often defined as sex without ones consent. She didn't give consent. I understand she could have initiated it herself while sleeping, or it could have been mutual (while sleeping). I am not dismissing that.

However, he has the history of it which he admits to (per article), so you have to factor that in somewhere in this.

The guy should not have been charged.

I believe it was dismissed.

[edit on 21-10-2009 by silver tongue devil]

reply to post by silver tongue devil


Actaully, he never claimed to taking off peoples clothes and having sex with them, just admitted after a long interrogation by police that he sometimes has sex while asleep with his girlfriend.

Something which he denied later. And police have a well established record of getting people to cop to things that are not true.

He even stated that he wakes up for the sex. Which has been my experience, and that of numerous other people.

I would hardly call it a condition that he should warn someone about.

It takes two to tango, and I don't believe this could have happened without her having an awareness. His opinion is that the sex never happened. His story sounds far more credible.

Which is why a jury acquitted him.