Is this a photo of bone fragments from Shanksville?

reply to post by remymartin


With the exception of the hijackers, I believe all the crew and passengers were identified by DNA extraction and sampling.

reply to post by hooper


Ok thanks. So there were definate human remains then
sl

[edit on 23-10-2009 by remymartin]

Originally posted by remymartin
Sorry if this sounds ghoulish, was anybody 100% identified from their remains at the crash site (dna or other means).

Yes, the military* said so. The same military base that claimed to identify all but one of the passengers from the other strange Boeing 757 crash at the Pentagon.


(*Ya know, the military that never lies.)

reply to post by wholetruth


So what corporate media would that be?

Here is the complete story from "THE AGE" dated Sept 9, 2002

It is an Australian newspaper or did you miss that?

www.theage.com.au...

Miller tells the reporter how the recognizable piece he saw was part of the spine

Walking in his gumboots, the only recognisable body part he saw was a piece of spinal cord, with five vertebrae attached.

"I've seen a lot of highway fatalities where there's fragmentation," Miller said. "The interesting thing about this particular case is that I haven't, to this day, 11 months later, seen any single drop of blood. Not a drop. The only thing I can deduce is that the crash was over in half a second. There was a fireball 15-20 metres high, so all of that material just got vaporised."

Here describes how FBI sifted the dirt from the impact crater for remains

There have been other, grimmer, visitors. First the FBI evidence recovery team members came in. They had sieves built to filter the evidence, but especially the human remains, from the soil.

The bureau members stayed at the crash site for 16 days and recovered 230 kilograms of remains.

Searches of the area were conducted on hands and knees. Wallace Miller remembers seeing an agent, from Mississippi, in tears as he crawled forward. When the FBI left, it handed legal responsibility for the location to the coroner, who was left with hell's own clean-up.

Miller and workers from the company contracted by United Airlines to clear the site found some dental work among the piles of dirt excavated from the crater. They used fine sieves to work through the piles again and extracted a further 45 kilograms. When that was done, the soil went back into the crater.

That makes it a grave," Miller said.

In fact, he already knew this, through a calculation of a morbid mathematical problem.

He estimated the average weight of each of the 44 people aboard flight 93 was 79.5 kilograms, for a total body mass of 3500 kilograms. "We recovered 270 kilograms. Of that, we identified about 110. The main thing I've been saying ever since that is the area down there is a cemetery because 92 per cent of these people's loved ones repose there."

As the coroner, Miller's job description was simple: identify the remains, notify the next of kin, return the remains home.

ALso there this account of finding a tooth lodged branch of tree

In Pennsylvania, Somerset County coroner Wallace E. Miller and his team scoured the "halo"—the field and woods surrounding the crater left when United Airlines Flight 93 plunged into the ground. The debris was everywhere. Trees were draped with scraps of luggage, clothing, bits of the fuselage and human remains. Walking through the crash site in the days after the attacks, Miller's eye caught a flash of light 20 feet up in the branches of a hemlock tree. "I only noticed it because the sun happened to hit it at just the right angle," he says. A tree climber brought it down. It was a single tooth with a silver filling. Eventually it was matched to one of the passengers.

Why your obession with seeing pictures of the carnage> Do you have
some morbid fascination?

Most organizations will not release gruesome pictures out of concern for
the families....

reply to post by hooper


This article from Newsweek goes into how remains were identified by DNA
analysis

The hijackers were identified by process of elimination as their families
refused to cooperate....

www.newsweek.com...

Also long 2002 article from THE AGE describes recovery of remains

www.theage.com.au...

Originally posted by thedman

Walking in his gumboots, the only recognisable body part he saw was a piece of spinal cord, with five vertebrae attached.

"I've seen a lot of highway fatalities where there's fragmentation," Miller said. "The interesting thing about this particular case is that I haven't, to this day, 11 months later, seen any single drop of blood. Not a drop.

So let me see if I get this straight, Miller sees a spinal cord, with five vertebrae attached, but not a single drop of blood???

Why your obession with seeing pictures of the carnage> Do you have some morbid fascination?

Most organizations will not release gruesome pictures out of concern for the families....

You mean like these pics?

***WARNING GRAPHIC PICTURES***

www.vaed.uscourts.gov...
www.vaed.uscourts.gov...
www.vaed.uscourts.gov...
www.vaed.uscourts.gov...

[edit on 23-10-2009 by ATH911]

Edit: Changed pics to links.

[edit on 25-10-2009 by intrepid]

reply to post by wholetruth

so it appears that the 600 pounds you recovered really accounts for 4 people. that sounds very reasonable.

Actually recovered very little from my crash scene -

Like I said victims are fragmented so badly and scattered so widely by the
violence of the impact means there is very little to recover

Crash scene here was on rocky ground - no crater

Everything was sprayed out in cone from the impact point

What we recovered was few scraps of tissue, part of the torso, hand (sans
fingers) and 4 fingers. There was no blood, again the violence of the
impact fragments everything so quickly. Also post crash fires burned
what little that was left

IIRC we found less than 50 lbs of human remains for 4 people - 2 male,
2 female on board.

It depends on the crash - high speed, high angle impacts result in
high degree of fragmention of bodies (and everything else) and the
high velocity results in debris being catapulted over wider area

Originally posted by thedman
reply to post by wholetruth

 

So what corporate media would that be?

Here is the complete story from "THE AGE" dated Sept 9, 2002

It is an Australian newspaper or did you miss that?

www.theage.com.au...

the age is owned by fairfax which is a large corporation. therefor the age is corporate media outlet. do you comprehend?

do you for some reason think because its australian its not a controlled outlet?

now let me show you what wally miller actually said in that article :

"who got snatched out of their bodies really quickly".

"Right now, we're standing on vaporised remains," "This is a grave. This is a cemetery."

"It was the most eerie thing," "Usually, when you see a plane crash on TV, you see the fuselage, the tail or a piece of something. The biggest piece I saw was as big as this (spreading his hands less than a metre apart). It was as though someone took a tri-axle dump truck and spread it over an acre."

"I've seen a lot of highway fatalities where there's fragmentation," "The interesting thing about this particular case is that I haven't, to this day, 11 months later, seen any single drop of blood. Not a drop. The only thing I can deduce is that the crash was over in half a second. There was a fireball 15-20 metres high, so all of that material just got vaporised."

"That makes it a grave,"

"We recovered 270 kilograms. Of that, we identified about 110. The main thing I've been saying ever since that is the area down there is a cemetery because 92 per cent of these people's loved ones repose there."

"I didn't do any of that,"

"This became a job for a funeral director."

"We went through here on our hands and knees hundreds of times,"

"You could drive yourself crazy, picking this stuff up. But, by God, I tried. I did my best." Last November he was in the car park of his funeral home, talking to a client. "I found myself looking down in the parking lot, scanning for stuff."

"To make this some sort of tourist destination would be really disappointing,"

"I've got the feeling that's what's eventually going to occur."

"Kind of jolts you, if you're open to it,"

"I don't like this spot."

that is what miller said. everything else is not quoted to him and therefor most likely writers embellishment.

Why your obession with seeing pictures of the carnage> Do you have
some morbid fascination?

well a lot of people claimed a plane didnt crash there.

i sought out to prove them wrong. instead i became a believer.

i guess i could be like you, after all i once was. someone showed me a hole 10 feet deep in the ground and said a 757 made it and the landing gears and rows of seats and passengers all vaporized into this hole.

but i was skeptical because ultimately i am a skeptic.

you swallow whatever you are told and ask for seconds and defend it like it came from some higher power.

reply to post by wholetruth

reply to post by wholetruth

you swallow whatever you are told and ask for seconds and defend it like it came from some higher power.

What I do is remember my training - been trained in aircraft FF and rescue
by Port Authority of New York and relate it to my experiences

After having stood on a crash scene surveying the debris and witnessing
the fragmentation of the aircraft and the bodies. And walking the scene
looking up close and personal at every piece to mark the body parts
for recovery can understand Shanksville

One thing about the fire service - when the trainer tells you something
better listen because every point has been obtained by someone being killed or injured...

reply to post by thedman



well what i've done for years is track down shanksville witnesses and get their accounts from them.

because of that i know :

1) "flight 93" flew over indian lake therefor it could not have crashed in shanksville.

2) there were 3 documented remain recoveries at the crash site. this consisted of half a severed left arm and 2 separate internal organs. despite not being burnt and veins hanging out of the severed arm there was not a drop of blood in the dirt in which it laid. same for the 2 internal organs also laying in dirt. all 3 were outside the crater.

3) the remains were "recovered" by the fbi recovery teams and brought to the dmort lab to miller and dirkmat and co. this is also how the matching dna samples from family members were given to miller and co.

4) "flight 93" flew over indian lake. see #1.

5) see #4 & #1

Originally posted by thedman
Everything was sprayed out in cone from the impact point

You mean except for the soil, of course. That stayed put, even though it was hit by a plane travelling around 500mph, which (at 40º) had more horizontal momentum than vertical.

Rewey

Skeptics, is there any photographic evidence that human remains were found at the Shanksville scene?

Originally posted by ATH911
Skeptics, is there any photographic evidence that human remains were found at the Shanksville scene?

Probably, but you'll never see it. Neither will I. And for good reason. And you know what that reason is, don't you? But you will continue with your inhumane request, won't you?

Originally posted by hooper

Originally posted by ATH911
Skeptics, is there any photographic evidence that human remains were found at the Shanksville scene?

Probably, but you'll never see it. Neither will I. And for good reason. And you know what that reason is, don't you?

because no one is going to contact miller and request copies...........

Originally posted by wholetruth

Originally posted by hooper

Originally posted by ATH911
Skeptics, is there any photographic evidence that human remains were found at the Shanksville scene?

Probably, but you'll never see it. Neither will I. And for good reason. And you know what that reason is, don't you?

because no one is going to contact miller and request copies...........

Hey - you are more than welcome. But what good would it do? You'll just deny the validity of the photographs, call everyone who took them shills or government agents and then accuse them of being accomplices to mass murder. Wouldn't give you the time of day.

Can they really identify all passengers and crew from the shanksville crash site.

In contrast, the remains of all 40 victims in the Pennsylvania crash and all but five of the 184 victims at the Pentagon site were identified months ago.

www.cbsnews.com...


They could only identify 6 persons from 104 from the silkair high velocity nose dive crash.

www.flightsafety.org...

Originally posted by hooper

Originally posted by wholetruth

Originally posted by hooper

Originally posted by ATH911
Skeptics, is there any photographic evidence that human remains were found at the Shanksville scene?

Probably, but you'll never see it. Neither will I. And for good reason. And you know what that reason is, don't you?

because no one is going to contact miller and request copies...........

Hey - you are more than welcome. But what good would it do? You'll just deny the validity of the photographs, call everyone who took them shills or government agents and then accuse them of being accomplices to mass murder. Wouldn't give you the time of day.

Well, they were........

And I don't give the time of day to people who still believe fairy tales.

Originally posted by hooper

Originally posted by ATH911
Skeptics, is there any photographic evidence that human remains were found at the Shanksville scene?

Probably, but you'll never see it. Neither will I. And for good reason.

"Probably"?!

You skeptics are hilarious!

And you know what that reason is, don't you?

No, pray tell.

Originally posted by hooper

Originally posted by wholetruth

Originally posted by hooper

Originally posted by ATH911
Skeptics, is there any photographic evidence that human remains were found at the Shanksville scene?

Probably, but you'll never see it. Neither will I. And for good reason. And you know what that reason is, don't you?

because no one is going to contact miller and request copies...........

Hey - you are more than welcome. But what good would it do? You'll just deny the validity of the photographs, call everyone who took them shills or government agents and then accuse them of being accomplices to mass murder.

i've already seen them. you don't pay attention do you?

Wouldn't give you the time of day.

who would't? wally miller? the guy who went through an entire shoebox full with me?