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Is this a photo of bone fragments from Shanksville?

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posted on Oct, 23 2009 @ 10:56 AM
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Originally posted by ATH911

Originally posted by wholetruth
i highly recommend it. until you view them you really have no idea how little remains there were.

Did he by chance say how what % of the minuscule 8% total remains supposedly recovered was found below ground versus above ground?



no he didn't. from talking to miller it became apparent that the majority of the remains were recovered by the fbi, undocumented, and brought to him and dirkmat at the dmort lab. miller personally recovered very little.


Did he mention what % of Flight 4?? he mentioned in that video were identified out of the 30% total remains recovered? That one should 100% too.


the 17-30% number is what the ntsb told miller was typical to recover from 'normal' plane crashed like flight 427. miller has no idea what amount of remains was recovered in the alliquippa crash.




posted on Oct, 23 2009 @ 10:58 AM
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Originally posted by Rewey

Originally posted by ThaLoccster


"We (were) literally surrounded by debris, and there's a very strong odor of scorched earth," Parsons reported. "It doesn't smell like jet fuel, it smells like ... How do you describe it? Burned earth. It smells like burned earth."


Hmmm... it would be interesting to see on a map how far away from the crash scene they were when they mentioned about the smell.

This seems to be wandering away from the topic of bones...

Rew


i've seen the video i do believe its in an italian 911 documentary. i have to find the name again but the wtae reporter is walking around in the wooded area i do believe it is somewhere near the cabin when he makes this comment.....



posted on Oct, 23 2009 @ 11:01 AM
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Originally posted by iamsupermanv2
yea..i find it odd no debunkers are here...yet...i say wait till morning.

but the coroner seemed a little defensive...is there a reason? that's just the skeptic in me talking. he probably has many reasons...the scientific/medical types have a habit of "knowing" what they know to be true and not wanting the facts to be questioned. as an educated man, he truly believes facts, especially as he sees them. and no problem with that..plus he seems like an innocent person in the midst of a huge debate.


watch when miller talks about no blood and no limbs but then goes on to talk about the hands and feet. pay close attention to his body movement and his wording during this part. i'm surprised no one has made a big deal about it yet personally.



also...i kind of find it hard to swallow that the only real evidence of human remains would be limbs. doesn't it make sense that there would be, as morbid as this sounds, but a torso or two, maybe even a head? i'd fully expect a head bc of the amount of bone and the structure of the skull....but that's an uneducated assumption. anyone able to help explain that? if so thanks!


it makes perfect sense. i know people who worked the 427 crash site. one was a chief of police. he spent a year in therapy once he was done working that scene. the carnage described and others who worked that scene is disturbing and sounds like what people like me and you would expect and what wasn't found at shanksville.



posted on Oct, 23 2009 @ 11:02 AM
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Originally posted by Rewey

Originally posted by iamsupermanv2
also...i kind of find it hard to swallow that the only real evidence of human remains would be limbs. doesn't it make sense that there would be, as morbid as this sounds, but a torso or two, maybe even a head?


Not sure about full torsos or anything, but I think someone above, or someone in another media report, mentioned that Miller found pieces of spinal cord, which is more than a little distressing...

Rew


miller made no mention of this to me and he isn't directly quoted in that article either. i have seen no proof that any spinal cord was found. i think this is media lies personally.



posted on Oct, 23 2009 @ 11:03 AM
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Originally posted by thedman

reply to post by iamsupermanv2
 





also...i kind of find it hard to swallow that the only real evidence of human remains would be limbs. doesn't it make sense that there would be, as morbid as this sounds, but a torso or two, maybe even a head? i'd fully expect a head bc of the amount of bone and the structure of the skull....but that's an uneducated assumption. anyone able to help explain that? if so thanks!


Have you ever seen a high speed airrcraft crash scene?

Anybody on board is chopped into "human hamburger" with little left recognizable. Had to walk a crash scene marking pieces (and thats all
there was) for the coroner to recover - only things identifible as human
were half of chest, hand minus fingers and 4 severed fingers...

From 44 people on board were able to recover about 600 lbs remains - rest were ground up and sprayed all over scene or burned in post crash fire....


what crash was this?



posted on Oct, 23 2009 @ 11:04 AM
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Originally posted by iamsupermanv2
and spinal cord finding...that is disturbing.


dont believe it.



posted on Oct, 23 2009 @ 11:06 AM
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How can body parts be found, but no blood dripping out of them? Did Flight 93 crash in a vampire area?



posted on Oct, 23 2009 @ 11:27 AM
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Originally posted by wholetruth

Originally posted by iamsupermanv2
and spinal cord finding...that is disturbing.

dont believe it.


There seems to be quite a few mentions of it on a simple google search. Not saying that means anything, but it's a strange think to have started if it wasn't true...


...Miller was familiar with scenes of sudden and violent death, although none quite like this. Walking in his gumboots, the only recognisable body part he saw was a piece of spinal cord, with five vertebrae attached. 'I've seen a lot of highway fatalities where there's fragmentation,' Miller said.


From here.

Among many other places...

Rewey



posted on Oct, 23 2009 @ 11:28 AM
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Originally posted by ATH911
How can body parts be found, but no blood dripping out of them?


they were brought there by other means......



posted on Oct, 23 2009 @ 11:30 AM
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Originally posted by Rewey

Originally posted by wholetruth

Originally posted by iamsupermanv2
and spinal cord finding...that is disturbing.

dont believe it.


There seems to be quite a few mentions of it on a simple google search. Not saying that means anything, but it's a strange think to have started if it wasn't true...


...Miller was familiar with scenes of sudden and violent death, although none quite like this. Walking in his gumboots, the only recognisable body part he saw was a piece of spinal cord, with five vertebrae attached. 'I've seen a lot of highway fatalities where there's fragmentation,' Miller said.


From here.

Among many other places...

Rewey



well when i looked through mr. millers hundreds of photographs i didn't see a spinal cord anywhere. miller made no mention of such. i don't believe anything the corporate media writes personally.


Google Video Link



posted on Oct, 23 2009 @ 11:33 AM
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reply to post by wholetruth
 





miller made no mention of this to me and he isn't directly quoted in that article either. i have seen no proof that any spinal cord was found. i think this is media lies personally.


Must not have looked very hard...

Interview in 2002 with Australian Newspaper "THE AGE"



A few weeks ago, Wallace Miller, coroner of Somerset County, walked around the perimeter of this area with a landowner, Tim Lambert.

Their rambling disturbed a flock of wild turkeys. Amid the racket of their departure, a thought occurred to Miller: nature had finally begun to reclaim this place.

He can remember his first time there, 10.45am, Tuesday, September 11 ­ the stench of jet fuel, still puddled on the ground, the smell of the burnt and smouldering trees and grass, the silence of nature and the men who had arrived to find they could do nothing, the overwhelming evidence that a Boeing 757, 55 metres long and weighing 110 tonnes, had somehow been obliterated, and with it, the 44 people on board.

...Miller was familiar with scenes of sudden and violent death, although none quite like this. Walking in his gumboots, the only recognisable body part he saw was a piece of spinal cord, with five vertebrae attached. 'I've seen a lot of highway fatalities where there's fragmentation,' Miller said. 'The interesting thing about this particular case is that I haven't, to this day, 11 months later, seen any single drop of blood. Not a drop. The only thing I can deduce is that the crash was over in half a second. There was a fireball 15-20 metres high, so all of that material just got vaporised.'"

"We went through here on our hands and knees hundreds of times" Source


Said only recognizable body part he saw was part was part of spine

So what is the problem?



posted on Oct, 23 2009 @ 11:39 AM
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reply to post by wholetruth
 


May 25, 1088 - Lear 35A out of Teterboro NJ

Crashed down street from me - as member of FD was on scene

At daylight went through crash scene with flags on sticks marking out
body parts for coroner to recover ...

NY Times article

www.nytimes.com...



Four people, two crew members and two passengers, were believed by Federal investigators and the police to have been aboard the Lear 35 jet. The police could not confirm the number, or identities, of the victims ''We're dealing with body parts, not bodies,'' Chief Joseph Ranney said. ''Identification will be very difficult.'' Airplane parts were scattered in small pieces throughout the site on Garrett Mountain. Flames Higher Than Treetops


Notice - "dealing with body parts, not bodies"



posted on Oct, 23 2009 @ 11:40 AM
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The passenger remains story doesn't add up (just like no other aspect of the alleged Shanks crash adds up).

How can 95% of a plane be recovered, but only 8% of total remains found and are able to ID 100% of the passengers? Remarkable odds.

How can 80% the plane get buried, yet not one peep of passenger remains being extracted from underground is reported in the media?

If you read all the reports in the media of remains found, it reads like all the remains were found above ground. There is absolutely no mention of any remains being found underground even though officials are telling us 80% of the plane was found underground!!!



posted on Oct, 23 2009 @ 11:45 AM
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reply to post by ATH911
 


No

At speed plane hit (575 mph) bodies were violently fragmented in an instant - no time for any bleeding

When were you at a plane crash scene?

So why making dumb comments about something you know nothing ?



posted on Oct, 23 2009 @ 11:56 AM
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Originally posted by thedman
At speed plane hit (575 mph) bodies were violently fragmented in an instant - no time for any bleeding

So why making dumb comments about something you know nothing ?

Speaking of making dumb comments.



posted on Oct, 23 2009 @ 12:24 PM
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Originally posted by ATH911
The passenger remains story doesn't add up (just like no other aspect of the alleged Shanks crash adds up).

How can 95% of a plane be recovered, but only 8% of total remains found and are able to ID 100% of the passengers? Remarkable odds.

How can 80% the plane get buried, yet not one peep of passenger remains being extracted from underground is reported in the media?

If you read all the reports in the media of remains found, it reads like all the remains were found above ground. There is absolutely no mention of any remains being found underground even though officials are telling us 80% of the plane was found underground!!!



No official is telling that whopper about the buried plane, only you. And why would the news differentiate between where the remains were found?



posted on Oct, 23 2009 @ 12:40 PM
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Originally posted by thedman
reply to post by wholetruth
 





miller made no mention of this to me and he isn't directly quoted in that article either. i have seen no proof that any spinal cord was found. i think this is media lies personally.


Must not have looked very hard...


excuse me?

i looked through everyone of his photographs.

did you?

did you see the these pictures?

did you see this alleged spinal cord?

have you ever in your life spoken a single word to mr. miller?

whats that? is that a no to all of the above? i do believe.

how dare you. how trollish of you.





A few weeks ago, Wallace Miller, coroner of Somerset County, walked around the perimeter of this area with a landowner, Tim Lambert.

Their rambling disturbed a flock of wild turkeys. Amid the racket of their departure, a thought occurred to Miller: nature had finally begun to reclaim this place.

He can remember his first time there, 10.45am, Tuesday, September 11 ­ the stench of jet fuel, still puddled on the ground, the smell of the burnt and smouldering trees and grass, the silence of nature and the men who had arrived to find they could do nothing, the overwhelming evidence that a Boeing 757, 55 metres long and weighing 110 tonnes, had somehow been obliterated, and with it, the 44 people on board.

...Miller was familiar with scenes of sudden and violent death, although none quite like this. Walking in his gumboots, the only recognisable body part he saw was a piece of spinal cord, with five vertebrae attached. 'I've seen a lot of highway fatalities where there's fragmentation,' Miller said. 'The interesting thing about this particular case is that I haven't, to this day, 11 months later, seen any single drop of blood. Not a drop. The only thing I can deduce is that the crash was over in half a second. There was a fireball 15-20 metres high, so all of that material just got vaporised.'"

"We went through here on our hands and knees hundreds of times" Source



wow look right there is the spinal cord lie again and again its not a direct quote attributed to mr. miller.


Said only recognizable body part he saw was part was part of spine

So what is the problem?


he didn't say anything of the sort. wally miller said :


'I've seen a lot of highway fatalities where there's fragmentation,' Miller said. 'The interesting thing about this particular case is that I haven't, to this day, 11 months later, seen any single drop of blood. Not a drop. The only thing I can deduce is that the crash was over in half a second. There was a fireball 15-20 metres high, so all of that material just got vaporised.'"


the corporate media said :


Miller was familiar with scenes of sudden and violent death, although none quite like this. Walking in his gumboots, the only recognisable body part he saw was a piece of spinal cord, with five vertebrae attached.


the corporate media is lying.

why do people on the internet feel the need to defend the corporate media who has repeatedly been proven to lie to the american people and the entire world on just about every subject?



posted on Oct, 23 2009 @ 12:49 PM
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Originally posted by thedman
reply to post by ATH911
 


No

At speed plane hit (575 mph) bodies were violently fragmented in an instant - no time for any bleeding


so what blood just goes away because you deem there is no time for it?



i'm surprised that the people that jumped out the wtc and landed on the concrete below didn't just vaporize and have their blood vanish as it seems there would be no time to bleed for them either........


When were you at a plane crash scene?

So why making dumb comments about something you know nothing ?


lets review what you said because i think you've been caught in a lie.......

first you said :


Have you ever seen a high speed airrcraft crash scene?

Anybody on board is chopped into "human hamburger" with little left recognizable. Had to walk a crash scene marking pieces (and thats all
there was) for the coroner to recover - only things identifible as human
were half of chest, hand minus fingers and 4 severed fingers...

From 44 people on board were able to recover about 600 lbs remains - rest were ground up and sprayed all over scene or burned in post crash fire....


then you go on to link to this report which says :


Four people, two crew members and two passengers, were believed by Federal investigators and the police to have been aboard the Lear 35 jet. The police could not confirm the number, or identities, of the victims ''We're dealing with body parts, not bodies,'' Chief Joseph Ranney said. ''Identification will be very difficult.'' Airplane parts were scattered in small pieces throughout the site on Garrett Mountain. Flames Higher Than Treetops


so it appears that the 600 pounds you recovered really accounts for 4 people. that sounds very reasonable.

you also claim to have recovered body parts. that is expected.

the problem in shanksville is there really isn't any body parts. i know i looked through the coroners photographs and interviewed him.

you didn't.

all you know is what the corporate media tells you.

therefor all you know is lies.



posted on Oct, 23 2009 @ 01:04 PM
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reply to post by thedman
 


I wish you would have posted a link to that story. I searched for it after reading your post, it was a great story. I'll link it here and post some quotes.

On hallowed ground


At that moment, at Ida's store in Shanksville, three kilometres away, store owner Rick King heard "a whining, screaming noise of the engines" as the plane briefly ascended.

Terry Butler saw the plane bank right at the top of its climb, then lost sight of it behind some trees. Within three or four seconds, there was the impact, marked, he remembered, by four explosions.



Until the mid-80s Pennsylvania was the throbbing, noxious heart of the American steel industry. For almost a century, coal extracted from the rolling hills of south-western Pennsylvania had fueled those mills. Somerset County is dotted with mines; some still working but most abandoned. The 20-hectare plot that Wallace Miller walked had been mined for coal on its surface and underground for 30 years.

In 1990, the reclamation process began: 190,000 cubic metres of soil and dynamited rock were spread over the site, then sewn with grass.

To the casual eye, it looked like solid, consolidated ground but in reality the reclaimed expanse was loose and uncompacted. When flight 93 hit the ground, the cockpit and first-class cabin broke off, scattered into millions of fragments that spread and flew like shrapnel into and through the trees 20 metres away.

A section of the engine, weighing almost a tonne, was found on the bed of a catchment pond, 200 metres downhill.



The point of impact, about 10-12 metres across, is black and smoking. According to Miller it was about three metres deep. In Stahl's photograph it looks more like an excavation.



Other photos taken at the scene by Miller show a small furrow, like a hand-dug drainage ditch, running back from the crater. This was the mark left by a wing.

"It was the most eerie thing," Miller recalled. "Usually, when you see a plane crash on TV, you see the fuselage, the tail or a piece of something. The biggest piece I saw was as big as this (spreading his hands less than a metre apart). It was as though someone took a tri-axle dump truck and spread it over an acre."



Walking in his gumboots, the only recognisable body part he saw was a piece of spinal cord, with five vertebrae attached.

"I've seen a lot of highway fatalities where there's fragmentation," Miller said. "The interesting thing about this particular case is that I haven't, to this day, 11 months later, seen any single drop of blood. Not a drop. The only thing I can deduce is that the crash was over in half a second. There was a fireball 15-20 metres high, so all of that material just got vaporised."



Neither President George Bush, nor Vice-President Dick Cheney, have yet visited the site, although their wives have, to attend memorial services for the victims.



Searches of the area were conducted on hands and knees. Wallace Miller remembers seeing an agent, from Mississippi, in tears as he crawled forward. When the FBI left, it handed legal responsibility for the location to the coroner, who was left with hell's own clean-up.

Miller and workers from the company contracted by United Airlines to clear the site found some dental work among the piles of dirt excavated from the crater. They used fine sieves to work through the piles again and extracted a further 45 kilograms. When that was done, the soil went back into the crater.



Beyond the coroner's job description, there were other tasks facing Miller. First, to scour the site for every sign of remains, identify it, and return it to the family.

"We went through here on our hands and knees hundreds of times," he said. "You could drive yourself crazy, picking this stuff up. But, by God, I tried. I did my best." Last November he was in the car park of his funeral home, talking to a client. "I found myself looking down in the parking lot, scanning for stuff."



Sharon Griffith, a member of the Somerset County emergency response team, remembers seeing a grandmother, with her arms around her two teenage grandsons as they looked out over the site. Griffith heard the woman tell the boys, "Isn't this a beautiful place that your daddy is? Isn't this a beautiful place to be?"



Earlier this year a further 15centimetre layer of topsoil was strewn over the crash site, and sown with grass. Still, there are signs of the crash everywhere, from the tiny pieces of gnarled and twisted metal, to the black scorch marks on a power pole, as beautiful and abstract as a Maori tattoo.

The shovel twists and is caught among the root-ridden soil at the base of a stand of hemlock trees. The soil is dark and rich on top, lighter underneath. Brightly covered pieces of electrical wire are still strewn and wrapped around the base of some of the trees.

"Kind of jolts you, if you're open to it," Miller says of the atmosphere. He lays the tools down for a moment and then, half-bent, looks back to the crash site, up over a gentle rise. "I don't like this spot."



posted on Oct, 23 2009 @ 01:12 PM
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Sorry if this sounds ghoulish, was anybody 100% identified from their remains at the crash site (dna or other means).



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