Physicists Calculate Number of Parallel Universes, page 2
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reply posted on 17-10-2009 @ 03:06 PM by Aquarius1
Interesting theory by Dr. Michio Kaku, I have read Hyperspace, excellent book.

Blackholes, Wormholes and the Tenth Dimension
Will these concepts be proven by a theory of everything?
Last June, astronomers were toasting each other with champagne glasses in laboratories around the world, savoring their latest discovery. The repaired $2 billion Hubble Space Telescope, once the laughing stock of the scientific community, had snared its most elusive prize: a black hole. But the discovery of the Holy Grail of astrophysics may also rekindle a long simmering debate within the physics community. What lies on the other side of a black hole? If someone foolishly fell into a black hole, will they be crushed by its immense gravity, as most physicists believe, or will they be propelled into a parallel universe or emerge in another time era? To solve this complex question, physicists are opening up one of the most bizarre and tantalizing chapters in modern physics. They have to navigate a minefield of potentially explosive theories, such as the possibility of “wormholes,” “white holes,” time machines, and even the 10th dimension! This controversy may well validate J.B.S. Haldane’s wry observation that the universe is “not only queerer than we sup- pose, it is queerer than we can suppose.” This delicious controversy, which delights theoretical physicists but boggles the mind of mere mortals, is the subject of my recent book, Hyperspace.


Link

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[edit on Tue Oct 27 2009 by Jbird]


reply posted on 17-10-2009 @ 06:03 PM by YouAreDreaming
reply to post by notreallyalive



You must love Math, I envy you.

The reality is, fractal mathematics is a great place to start in describing a model a multiverse. I personally believe that the Universe is completely mathematical in design, implying that everything is quantized and accounted for at the most finite level of reality.

Now if we progress into a fractal reality, which I believe this Universe exists as, then the model of how we zoom in and out of the fractal view gives us a broader or smaller model of the Universe.

Theoretically we can descend pasts the Plank's constant if reality is indeed fractal in design.

There is so much to fractal reality when applied to matter and also to consciousness. If reality isn't a fractal system, Consciousness truly is.

And I can explain and provided some insightful examples of this as it relates to consciousness if you want.


reply posted on 17-10-2009 @ 06:04 PM by jkrog08
reply to post by YouAreDreaming



I just realized we are only counting the universes in the multiverse, but not factoring all the universes in one of the universes within this multiverse so the real number has to be:

(10^10^6)(10^10^10^12)

Now that we established all of the universes also have a probably number of universes, we have to assume that each of their member universes also have ...


Quite possibly the coolest (or most mind boggling) paragraph I have ever read, truly worthy of SyFy channel, lol.

No, seriously, the type of physics and realizations of reality we are at now is TRULY mind boggling and beyond phenomenal. Just think where we will be at 100 years from now!


reply to post by Copernicus

If its parallell universes, and things are not exactly the same, it then doesnt seem likely that a copy of everyone exist in all universes.

People meet different people and end up with different partners. Billions of sperms compete to win the race.

In fact, with all the variables, I think its more likely that only one of us exist.


In an infinite system (such as the multiverse), all possible solutions are accounted for, regardless of "odds" or "probability", those become irrelevant and meaningless in an infinite system.



On a last note, these are the types of discussions and threads I absolutely LOVE, as Cosmology is my intended major, I do have a passion and extreme fascination/interest for this subject matter. Many people are completely lost when discussing this, so I am thankful for ANY discussion I can get. Thanks again for the thread OP.





[edit on 10/17/2009 by jkrog08]


reply posted on 17-10-2009 @ 07:49 PM by jkrog08
reply to post by Larryman



Multiverse is generally the singular name given to the theory that our universe is one of near infinite separate, "distinct" universes that "float" around in Hyperspace or "The Bulk", which is a multidimensional space that exists outside of our 4 dimensional space. Within each of these distinct universes there is an infinite number of parallel universes, which are constantly created to account for every possible outcome of an event from ANYTHING that happens on ANY scale in our universe (and the others). Hence the "Multiverse" name, which is truly more appropriate than "Universe", which means one, which we now know is very likely not the case.

Hope that cleared it up..

[edit on 10/17/2009 by jkrog08]


reply posted on 19-10-2009 @ 03:51 AM by Arbitrageur
Originally posted by Vanitas

The sad thing is that scientists are getting payed to imagine instead of coming up with real science. Where can I sign on? I don't even need a degree! Cool!


What follows is not a rhetoric question:

What exactly is "real" science?
Am I right in suspecting it is supposed to mean research within the limits of what is presently known to be "true" (and which was discovered, ironically enough, by individuals who transgressed the known limits of science in their own time)?


I like the way constantwonder prefaced the OP by commenting that we should take some salt along with the OP article! Well said.

And the question this topic raises is indeed what is real science. Let's examine one definition:

What Is Science? And What Is The Scientific Method?

Science is a METHOD for the acquisition of knowledge about the universe around us (reliable - thought not infallible). The minimum requirements was given in the ruling of the U.S. Supreme Court, 1981. Judge Overton found that science has four essential features: QUOTE
1. It is guided by natural laws, and is explanatory by references to natural laws.
2. Science is testable against the empirical world.
3. Its conclusions are tentative, not the final word.
4. It is falsifiable.


It seems to me like what we have is the beginnings of science but not real science on this topic yet, because so far we haven't been able to test this science against the empirical world.

The main difference between the scientific method and other procedures for generating knowledge is that science says that YOU HAVE TO PROVE WHAT YOU CLAIM. The scientific method has a set procedure for going about this. It can be summarized in a series of steps:
1) Observation ( A series of observations is made and a phenomenon noted)

2) Form a falsifiable testable hypothesis to explain these observations. Deduce predictions from the hypothesis. These are phrased as statement in the form "if principle P is true, then event E should occur or fact F should be true."It MUST be "falsifiable" (The most crucial). That means a scientific hypothesis must have some feature about it that would allow someone (a careful experimenter or observer) to prove the hypothesis false if it is wrong.

3) Testing of the hypothesis (We must design an experiment or define a set of observations that we will take as proof that our theory is wrong. )

4) Adoption of the hypothesis or back to (2) if it fails the test(in which we admit that there is no evidence that our theory is correct.


So you have to prove what you claim in science? OK where is the proof for any of this in the context that science must be testable against the empirical world? It seems to me like we have made some observations on the micro (quantum mechanical) scale and tried to apply some of those observations to a macro (universe-sized) scale, without any evidence that such an extrapolation is warranted. This is OK for an idea to pursue...but where is step 3 in the scientific method, testing the hypothesis?

If it's not testable, and not falsifiable, etc, at least according to the supreme court, it's not science, at least not yet anyway. And if it is testable, what are the hypothesis tests, have they been planned or done? The multiverse theory along with string and M-Theory all seem to suffer from a lack of any real world empirical observational evidence to demonstrate their validity as being within the realm of science. I don't expect immediate results when someone comes up with an idea, since it took years for observations to be made to confirm Einstein's ideas, but I really don't see much in the way of real world hypothesis confirmations resulting from multiverse and M theory yet.

[edit on 19-10-2009 by Arbitrageur]


reply posted on 19-10-2009 @ 07:09 AM by majestictwo
reply to post by Arbitrageur



Hi Arbitrageur; Some very good points for sure. Like I said in an earlier post -

"It's truly as weird as we can possibly imagine and that's the point you or I could probably take a stab at explaining what we think it is and be just as right as the best physicists"

I am beginning to think we are finally working into the realms that are not testable. The best we have at the moment is proof by math but that’s providing more possibilities than we need right now. I mean it’s all adding to the confusion or should I say weirdness.

We will need to create that universe in the lab to get some real answers that are testable – problem is once we do, it will create a whole bunch of new possibilities (already has in fact). I really don’t want to be in an intelligently generated universe but I fear it’s just possible.
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