85,000 Iraqis killed in almost 5 years of war

What was this war fought for?

Seriously?

WMDs wasn't it?

Did we get them yet? Can our troops come home now? Mission accomplished right?


Game over war done. We can leave now right?

WTF was this war fought for? SERIOUSLY

reply to post by deadline527


You neglected to mention this:

The ministry's report came out late Tuesday as part of a larger study on human rights in the country. It described the years that followed the invasion, which toppled Saddam Hussein's regime, as extremely violent.

"Through the terrorist attacks like explosions, assassinations, kidnappings and forced displacements, the outlawed groups have created these terrible figures," it said.

From your same source, read that last paragraph... terrorist attacks, assassinations, kidnappings, etc. have created the alarming casualties ...

[edit on 14-10-2009 by LadySkadi]

Originally posted by jerico65

Originally posted by budski
Bottom line is who you want to believe.

The occupying forces and their media stooges?

Or someone else?

Gotcha. Doesn't matter if the research has holes it in; if it's against the war, it has to be true, right? So much for "denying ignorance".

That's not what I said, at all.

By that standard, is your evidence water tight?

I think not.

What I am saying is that the US and UK launched a war of aggression on the flimsiest of pretexts, emplanted journailsts and engendered a kind of stockholm syndrome in them, then used those same journalists to report on the war.

Then they lied about the justification for the war.

Then they awarded contracts to themselves (cheney)

Then they awarded some more contracts to themselves, before selling them to a chinese proxy for a large (creatively accounted) sum of money, whilst still keeping control - as in proxy.

In the build up to the war. Bush and his government used the words "Saddam", "WMD" and "Iraq" in the same sentence hundreds of times, and the mainstream media were complicit in this.

Now you tell me why I should believe what has ever been said, when nothing has ever been proven by the invaders.

And when you're done with that explanation, tell me why cheney held onto his shares in Halliburton TWICE before giving them up - and he probably still owns some in another persons name because war makes money.

After you've mulled that over, tell me again why the "allies" made no plans for occupation or reconstruction before invading.

[edit on 14/10/2009 by budski]

Originally posted by budski
What do you think happens when law and order falls apart, and the occupying army do nothing even resembling a police action, in order to keep a semblance of order.

I suspect Bush Sr. took this into account when he stopped at toppling Saddam. Yes, he (Saddam) was a brutal dictator, but no more so than so many others that are sponsored by the West. Recall Tito in Yugoslavia...what happened when he shuffled off of this mortal coil? So many of the maps were drawn by colonial powers that didn't take into account the tribal animosities...take away the Big Man, and it falls apart.

Some peoples will continue to slaughter each other til the last man standing...but there always seems a way to make a buck off of the conflict, even if just in 'reconstruction'.

SSDD...same scata, different day.



[edit on 14-10-2009 by JohnnyCanuck]

Originally posted by budski
That's not what I said, at all.

By that standard, is your evidence water tight?

I think not.

Is yours?

I think not.

Like a tracer, it works both ways. Sorry 'bout that.

reply to post by budski


So out of curiosity have you actually looked into the history behind the Sunni's and Shi'ites conflict with each other? Specifically the length of time that they've been killing each other? If you had you'd realize that we are in no way responsible for their religious conflict today.

Should we have had everything planned out before we entered the country? Yep. Does that make us responsible for for a religious conflict that's been going on for over 1000 years? Nope.

reply to post by JohnnyCanuck


I don't remember the Gulf War very well, but didn't it also have something to do with maintaining a "clamp" on Iran? Iraq and Iran were battling for power in the region and the fear (from others in the Region: Saudi's, Kuwaiti's, as well as the US) were that if removing Hussein resulted in Iraq falling into disarray and tribal war, it would be vulnerable to invasion from (or) insurgent control by Iran. At that time, the US was neither willing nor able to entertain either scenario... (1) stabilizing force, or occupying force, depending on your view, in Iraq and (2) the potential of direct conflict with Iran...

US backed Kuwait (and the Saudi's) to maintain its regional presence.
Saudi's had an agenda too.

[edit on 14-10-2009 by LadySkadi]

85,000? What happened to 500,000....oh wait it was 1,000,000....oh wait it was 800,000...oh wait it was...see the point. Know one really knows, and if the latest evidence showing how the media creates fake news casts to further war efforts is any indication of how stuff is dolled out to us, then I would say this is more than likely fake.

reply to post by LadySkadi


Well it can be dressed up and sent to the prom - but that doesn't change the basic fact that it was a war of aggression and a resource grab.

The prisons alone have increased the amount of insurgents tenfold.

Combine that with the lawlessness of the invasion.

In my opinion the result is what we have today.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A short story:


"I am a person.

My country has been invaded.

I have been denied food, water and electric because the invaders have destroyed my countries infrastructure.

I only have it for a couple of hours a day now.

I have no work because the invaders have destroyed our industry.

And they use their own men to rebuild my country.

I am angry and protest, so they say I am an insurgent and lock me in prison.

I am in prison and they are beating me and humiliating me, but I have done nothing wrong.

I am still waiting to be seen by a judge after 2 years.

I have had 2 years of beatings and humiliation.

I go before the judge.

The judge says I have no case to answer.

I am set free.

I am filled with hatred.

I am a terrorist."



[edit on 14/10/2009 by budski]

Originally posted by titorite
What was this war fought for?

Seriously?

WMDs wasn't it?

Did we get them yet? Can our troops come home now? Mission accomplished right?


Game over war done. We can leave now right?

WTF was this war fought for? SERIOUSLY

We wanted to get oil for a cheap price and keep it out of the hands of people that might do us harm. All the other excuses are just cover.

What is terrible is that no one is storming Washington. When leaders reveal the sham that democracy is, and Obama was elected because everyone wanted the Bush regime out and an end to war, then its time to tell them they have x numbers of days to vacate. He just got the nobal prize for peace, this man who has increased the war efforts though endorsed to end it.

Sectarian wars and conflicts - the killing of your neighbours over grammar and punctuation.

There is no point in saying that it Americans who are the ones who want wars, as they most certainly are not, and cast their votes in a sham of democracy to end it., just as they did massive protests for the Vietnam war. This is a bloodline banker thing that makes them a huge amount of money, and they go for absolute control of everything, not to mention agents of chaos. Its a world fight to rid ourselves of these bankers and their henchmen:


How the World is Run & How to fix it 1/6

By the way, I find that Egyptian pharoah extremely interesting and it just makes Vrill, their hyrid programs and cloning that much more evident.

Ive seen several different death count figures.I dought we will ever know the true number.

Well . one thing is for sure ...If you are readingthis post you are alive ...now.

And thats a good thing. (martha Stewarrt)

But..I myself think them Muslims should just cool it.

Originally posted by earthdude
We wanted to get oil for a cheap price and keep it out of the hands of people that might do us harm. All the other excuses are just cover.

Not even close. We import almost 7 times as much oil from Canada as we do from Iraq.

Crude Oil and Total Petroleum Imports
The top sources of US crude oil imports for July were Canada (2.110 million barrels per day), Saudi Arabia (1.137 million barrels per day), Mexico (0.985 million barrels per day), Venezuela (0.865 million barrels per day), and Nigeria (0.858 million barrels per day).

The link has a nifty chart showing import levels.

reply to post by Jenna


What this doesn't address is the fact that Iraqi production levels are only now starting to recover to what they were pre invasion, and indeed pre GW1.

A nice try, but there are billions in untapped reserves in the kurdish oil fields which are now being exploited with contracts awarded to guess who?

That's right, friends of the Bush family.

And that's before we discuss the old fields that were underproducing by a massive amount thanks to UN sanctions.

Before long, the Iraqi fields will be up to full production, the kurdish oil fields will be running at capacity, and then we'll see how your little strawman holds up

The US is not responsible for the fighting between Sunni and Shia factions.

The US is responsible for destroying the control mechanism that, to a significant degree, had that fighting in check.

The part that begs the question is why did they do it? Whatever the reason, it certainly looks like they had little regard or maybe even no concern whatsoever for the potential horrors that were to unfold.

Were Bush jr. and cohorts ignorant of the risk or did he and they choose to ignore it?

You can choose to believe he was stupid or evil; take your pick. But either way, there is certainly culpability for the consequences of starting that war.

Originally posted by Jenna

Originally posted by earthdude
We wanted to get oil for a cheap price and keep it out of the hands of people that might do us harm. All the other excuses are just cover.

Not even close. We import almost 7 times as much oil from Canada as we do from Iraq.

Crude Oil and Total Petroleum Imports
The top sources of US crude oil imports for July were Canada (2.110 million barrels per day), Saudi Arabia (1.137 million barrels per day), Mexico (0.985 million barrels per day), Venezuela (0.865 million barrels per day), and Nigeria (0.858 million barrels per day).

The link has a nifty chart showing import levels.

Yes, another failed mission. We wasted all that effort and never got the big prize. It is a huge reserve of oil, so big that the oil companies have been after it for 30 years. They wanted it so bad they bought the presidency. At least now they are pulling it out of the ground and our companies got to supply the parts.

reply to post by earthdude

At least now they are pulling it out of the ground and our companies got to supply the parts.

Geez, and it only cost 85,000 lives.
What a bargain.
Especially since it was only Iraqui lives; not American, -- oh, well, except for a couple thousand young Americans who didn't have jobs anyway.