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The Two Jehovahs of Psalm 110

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posted on Oct, 13 2009 @ 03:06 PM
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Psalm 110 gives us undeniable Scriptural evidence that there were two divine Beings Who were both known as Jehovah in Old Testament times. In the first verse of Psalm 110, David was inspired to prophesy that a divine Being called Adon would be invited to sit at the right hand of a divine Being called Jehovah. In the original Hebrew text, the same divine Being Who is called Adon in Verse 1 is called Jehovah in Verse 5. Psalm 110 is actually describing one Jehovah sitting beside another Jehovah! The word Jehovah in Verse 5, however, was altered by the Levitical Massorites to read Adonay. The Levites were hiding the truth that the Adon of Verse 1 was a second Jehovah!

In the original Hebrew text, Psalm 110 clearly reveals two Jehovahs sitting beside each other, one speaking to the other and foretelling future events. This psalm contains an explicit prophecy of a Jehovah/Adon who would become both the Messiah and the High Priest of a new priesthood after the order of Melchizedek. Notice carefully these prophetic verses in Psalm 110. Sections in bold are those passages which have been quoted in the New Testament.

“The LORD [Hebrew Jehovah] said unto my Lord [Hebrew Adon, the Messiah], Sit Thou [the Messiah] at My right hand, until I make Thine enemies Thy footstool [quoted in Matthew 22:44, Mark 12:36, Luke 20:42-43, Acts 2:34-35, Hebrews 1:13]. The LORD [Hebrew Jehovah] shall send the rod of Thy strength out of Zion: rule Thou [the Messiah] in the midst of Thine enemies. Thy people shall be willing in the day of Thy power, in the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: Thou [the Messiah] hast the dew of Thy youth. The LORD [Hebrew Jehovah] hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou [the Messiah] art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek [quoted in Hebrews 5:6 and 7:17] “ (Psa. 110:1-4).

The following verses continue the prophetic description of this Adon Who would become the Messiah. Notice especially Verse 5. In this verse, the Hebrew name Yhvh, or Jehovah, in the original Hebrew text was changed by the Massorites to read Adonay.

“The Lord [Hebrew Adonay, originally Jehovah, referring to the Messiah] at Thy [the first Jehovah’s] right hand shall strike through kings in the day of His wrath. He [Jehovah, the Messiah] shall judge among the heathen, He shall fill the places with the dead bodies; He shall wound the heads over many countries. He shall drink of the brook in the way: therefore shall He lift up the head” (Psa. 110:5-7).

Verse 5 in the original Hebrew text clearly shows two Jehovahs! This key verse in Psalm 110 identifies the Adon in Verse 1 as a second Jehovah. The context reveals that this Jehovah/Adon sitting at the right hand of the first Jehovah is the Messiah. The recorded words of Jesus Christ Himself attest to this very fact.

How Christ Interpreted Psalm 110
No interpretation of Psalm 110 is more authoritative than the Scriptural record of the words spoken by Jesus Christ. He was the promised Messiah about Whom the psalm was written. What did Psalm 110 mean to Christ? How did He interpret the words, “The Lord said unto my Lord”?

Let us examine the exact words of Jesus Christ as Matthew was inspired to record them, and then look at the accounts in the Gospels of Mark and Luke.

Matthew’s Gospel, written in Greek for Greek-speaking Christians at Jerusalem ca. 50 A.D., quotes Christ as stating that the psalmist David wrote under the inspiration of the Spirit of God. Thus Psalm 110 carries the full authority of inspired Scripture! This psalm is not the mere musing of an uneducated shepherd boy who had become king of Israel. Psalm 110 expresses the very thoughts and words of God Himself.

In Christ’s quotation of Psalm 110 in the Gospel of Matthew, we find the Greek word Kurios, or Lord, used in place of the Old Testament name Jehovah. The Greek word Kurios, the equivalent of Jehovah, is also used in place of the name Adon. Here is New Testament confirmation that the name Jehovah applies equally to the Adon in Verse 1 of Psalm 110!

This use of Kurios in the Gospel of Matthew verifies the accuracy of Psalm 110 as written by David in the original Hebrew text. It was no slip of the pen when David described the divine Being in Verse 5 of Psalm 110 as “The Jehovah at Thy right hand.” Matthew’s record of Christ’s words shows that David correctly named the divine Being sitting to the right of Jehovah as another Jehovah. Jesus’ own words reveal that this Jehovah Who sits at the right hand of the first Jehovah is the Son of Jehovah. Here are the words of Christ Himself as recorded by Matthew:

“While the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them, Saying, What think ye of Christ? whose Son is He? They say unto Him, The son of David. He saith unto them, How then doth David in Spirit call Him Lord [Greek Kurios, equivalent to Hebrew Jehovah], saying, The Lord [Greek Kurios, or Jehovah the Father] said unto my Lord [Greek Kurios, or Jehovah the Son], Sit Thou [the Son] on My right hand, till I [the Father] make Thine enemies Thy footstool? If David then call Him Lord [Greek Kurios, or Jehovah], how is He [the Messiah] his Son? And no man was able to answer him a word, neither durst any man from that day forth ask him any more questions” (Mat. 22:41-46).

The Jews of Jesus’ day could not answer Jesus’ question because they were blinded to the truth that is revealed in Psalm 110. They had been misled by their religious leaders into believing that Jehovah was the name of a single divine Being. They were convinced that there was only one Jehovah in the entire Old Testament. After all, that was the teaching of the scribes and Pharisees. These religious leaders claimed that there could never be more than one divine Being. They viewed the prophesied Messiah strictly as a national deliverer and a physical descendant of King David.

When we read Jesus’ statements concerning Psalm 110 in the Gospel of Mark, we find an accompanying warning from Jesus to be on guard against the doctrine of the scribes. Why? Because they denied the revealed truth of Scripture! They had blinded their eyes to the two Jehovahs of Psalm 110 and other Old Testament passages. While they professed to worship the God of Scripture, the scribes had long ago turned to a religion of “strict monotheism.” It was the rigid monotheistic tradition of Judaism that led them to reject the truth that the prophesied Messiah (the very Jesus standing before them) was known as Jehovah in the Old Testament. They could not answer Jesus’ question concerning the second Kurios in Psalm 110 because they did not want to admit that the Scriptures revealed two Jehovahs. Notice Jesus’ words and warning:

“And Jesus answered and said, while He taught in the temple, How say the scribes that Christ is the son of David? For David himself said by the Holy Ghost, The LORD [Greek Kurios, Jehovah the Father] said to my Lord [Greek Kurios, Jehovah the Son] Sit Thou [the Son] on My right hand, till I [the Father] make Thine enemies Thy footstool. David therefore himself calleth Him Lord [Greek Kurios, or Jehovah]; and whence is He then his Son? And the common people heard him gladly. And He said unto them in His doctrine, Beware of the scribes, which love to go in long clothing, and love salutations in the marketplaces, and the chief seats in the synagogues, and the uppermost rooms at feasts: which devour widows’ houses, and for a pretence make long prayers: these shall receive greater damnation [heavier judgment]” (Mark 12:35-40).

These scribes made a great show of outward devotion to God. They pretended to know God, while all the time refusing to believe what God had revealed in His Word. They rejected the truth that there were two Jehovahs in the Old Testament, and that one of those Jehovahs would become the Messiah before Whom they would some day stand in judgment! Because they denied the reality of the righteous judgment of God through His Son, they had no fear of God to restrain them from oppressing the poor and the helpless in the land.

Luke also records Jesus’ quotation of Psalm 110 and repeats Jesus’ warning to His followers not to fall into the error of the scribes. Notice Luke’s testimony:

“And He said unto them,How say they that Christ is David’s son? And David himself saith in the book of Psalms, The Lord [Greek Kurios, Jehovah the Father] said unto my [David’s] Lord [Greek Kurios, Jehovah the Son], Sit Thou [the Son] on My right hand, till I [the Father] make Thine enemies Thy footstool. David therefore calleth Him Lord [Greek Kurios, or Jehovah], how is He then his Son? Then in the audience of all the people He said unto His disciples, Beware of the scribes, which desire to walk in long robes, and love greetings in the markets, and the highest seats in the synagogues, and the chief rooms at feasts; which devour widows’ houses, and for a show make long prayers: the same shall receive greater damnation [heavier judgment]” (Luke 20:41-47).

Jesus did not hesitate to condemn the scribes for their hypocrisy. They, of all Jews of that time, should have acknowledged the truth of Scripture and have been walking in the fear of God. They were well acquainted with the Scriptures because their days were spent making copies of the sacred text. Yet the hardness of their hearts led them to deny the wonderful truth of the Jehovah/Messiah of Psalm 110 Who had come to earth in their day!

The fulfillment of this wonderful Old Testament prophecy is fully documented in the New Testament for all who are willing to believe. We find this Scriptural evidence not only in the Gospels, but also in the testimony of the apostles Peter and Paul.




posted on Oct, 13 2009 @ 03:08 PM
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How Peter Interpreted Psalm 110
When the apostle Peter quoted Psalm 110 in his Pentecost sermon in 30 A.D., he clearly identified both the Jehovah Who is speaking in the prophecy and the Jehovah Who sits at His right hand. Peter’s inspired interpretation of Psalm 110 makes it plain that David was not referring to himself when he wrote this psalm. Peter quotes Psalm 110 to prove that the Being sitting at the right of Jehovah is not David but the exalted Jesus Christ! Peter affirms that Jesus Christ was with Jehovah and was Jehovah before He became flesh.

In Peter’s inspired sermon, recorded in Acts 2, he testifies that the Jehovah on the left in Psalm 110:1 is both Theos (verse 32) and Kurios (verse 34), and that the Jehovah on the right is both Kurios (verses 34-35) and Christos (verse 35). Peter boldly declares that it is Theos, the Father, Who has exalted Jesus and made Him Christos. Here is Peter’s inspired testimony:

“This Jesus hath God [Greek Theos, the Father] raised up [resurrected], whereof we all are witnesses. Therefore being by the right hand of God [Greek Theos, the Father] exalted, and having received of the Father [Greek Pater, referring to Theos] the promise of the Holy Ghost [the Spirit of Theos, the Father], He [the resurrected Jesus] hath shed forth this [the Holy Spirit of the Father], which ye now see and hear [the outward manifestations of the Holy Spirit]. For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he [David] saith himself, The Lord [Greek Kurios, theFather] said unto my [David’s] Lord [Greek Kurios, the Son], Sit Thou [theSon] on My right hand, until I [the Father] make Thy foes Thy footstool. Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God [Greek Theos, the Father] hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord [Greek Kurios] and Christ [Greek Christos]” (Acts 2:32-36).

Peter’s words clearly show that the Jehovah/Adon of Psalm 110Who is sitting at the right hand of Jehovah is not King David! Peter emphatically states that David is still in his grave, and that it is Jesus, Jehovah of the Old Testament and Kurios/Christos of the New, Who has been raised from the dead by the power of the Father. It is the risen Christ Who has been exalted to sit at the right hand of God.

How Paul Interpreted Psalm 110
The apostle Paul also testifies that the Jehovah/Adon of Psalm 110 is Jesus Christ, the Son of Jehovah. In the first chapter of his epistle to the Hebrews, Paul identifies the Jehovah on the left hand in Psalm 110 as Theos the Father, and the Jehovah on the right hand as Theos the Son. Paul’s use of the Greek word Theos in this passage to name both the Father and the Son makes it clear that the Son is God in the full sense of the word. He is Theos by the same definition that the Father is Theos. Paul emphasizes this truth by quoting several Old Testament passages to prove that the Son (Greek Huios) is not a glorified angel or a superhuman being, but that He eternally pre-existed as God. Here is Paul’s testimony:

“God [Greek Theos, the Father], Who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, hath in these last days spoken unto us by His Son [Greek Huios], Whom He hath appointed heir of all things, by Whom also He [the Father] made the worlds [thus Jesus is called the Arche or Beginner of the creation]; Who [the Son] being the brightness of His [the Father’s] glory, and the express image of His [the Father’s] person, and upholding all things by the word of His power, when He [Jesus Christ] had by Himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high; being made so much better than the angels [Greek aggelos], as He [the Son] hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they. For unto which of the angels [Greek aggelos] said He [the Father] at any time, Thou art My Son [Greek Huios], this day have I begotten Thee [quoted from Psalm 2:7]? And again, I will be to Him a Father, and He shall be to Me a Son [Greek Huios] [quoted from II Samuel 7:14]? And again, when He bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, He [the Father] saith, And let all the angels of God worship Him [quoted from the Septuagint, Deuteronomy 32:43]. And of the angels He saith, Who maketh His angels spirits, and His ministers a flame of fire [quoted from the Septuagint, Psalm 104:4]. But unto the Son [Greek Huios] He [the Father] saith, Thy throne, O God [Greek Theos, the Son], is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of Thy kingdom. Thou [the Son] hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God [Greek Theos, the Father], even Thy God [Greek Theos, the Father], hath anointed Thee [the Son] with the oil of gladness above Thy fellows [quoted from Psalm 45:6-7]. And, Thou, Lord [Greek Kurios, the Jehovah of the Old Testament Who became the Son], in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of Thine hands: they shall perish; but Thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment; and as a vesture shalt Thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but Thou [the Son] art the same, and Thy years shall not fail [quoted from Psalm 102:25-27]. But to which of the angels [Greek aggelos] said He [the Father] at any time, Sit on My right hand, until I make Thine enemies Thy footstool?” (Heb. 1:1-13.)

Paul’s inspired testimony makes it undeniably clear that Jesus Christ was never an angel. Paul quotes Psalm 110 and specifically points out that no angel at any time was invited to sit at the right hand of the Father. Paul also quotes Psalm 2 to show that no angel at any time was begotten of the Father. Paul shows that it is totally unscriptural to claim that Christ was ever an angel—or anything less than God.

In this passage, Paul offers irrefutable proof from the Old Testament to convince all who question the eternal existence of Jesus Christ as God. To remove every doubt, Paul quotes the testimony of the Father Himself in Psalm 45 as evidence that Jesus Christ is God and will reign as God for all eternity. As proof of the pre-existence of Jesus Christ as Jehovah of the Old Testament, Paul quotes Psalm 102 to demonstrate that Christ shared full power and authority with the Father in the creation of the heavens and the earth.

Paul’s purpose in quoting these Old Testament scriptures was to shut the mouths of those who deny that Jesus Christ is God and that He has existed from the beginning as God—a fully divine Being. In an earlier epistle, Paul specifically named Christ as the Rock of the Old Testament, the God Who covenanted with Israel (I Cor. 10:4). In view of all the New Testament evidence, it is utter nonsense to deny the eternal pre-existence of Jesus Christ as Creator and Lord, or Jehovah, of the Old Testament.

He revealed the Father Jehovah in the New Testament.



posted on Oct, 13 2009 @ 04:00 PM
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Nice referencing. Good Job...



posted on Oct, 13 2009 @ 04:04 PM
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Originally posted by Locoman8


This psalm contains an explicit prophecy of a Jehovah/Adon who would become both the Messiah and the High Priest of a new priesthood after the order of Melchizedek.



This opens the door for any secret society group who calls themselves the "Order of Melchizedek" to come forth to claim themselves as the Messianic Priesthood, doesn't it?

I suppose if that same Order of Melchizedek group had an international network established it would be a piece of cake to come forward and acclaim themselves as the Christ class or The Annointed.

Sounds like a plan for claiming power as the Christ of the New Age.

Good spiel. Jesus isn't coming back. He will be in touch with us and we will be giving you your orders. The new religion. Looks like its already set up.

Not a prophecy Locoman. It's a script to establish the same power under a new name.



posted on Oct, 13 2009 @ 06:17 PM
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Originally posted by Locoman8

Psalm 110 gives us undeniable Scriptural evidence that there were two divine Beings Who were both known as Jehovah in Old Testament times. In the first verse of Psalm 110, David was inspired to prophesy that a divine Being called Adon would be invited to sit at the right hand of a divine Being called Jehovah.






Excellent proofing of this doctrine. Well done.



posted on Oct, 13 2009 @ 06:26 PM
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The Lord said to my Lord - spoken by David is a direct reference to the Messiah in his role as the Son of Man.

The Messiah comes to live inside the believer (the kingdom is within) and just like Moses lifted up the serpent in the desert, when we lift up the Son of Man, within us - we will know that Jesus is who he claimed to be.

The Lord said to my Lord - is Jehovah, talking to the Son of Man who lived inside David and I do believe his name is Immanuel (God with us).



posted on Oct, 13 2009 @ 06:47 PM
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Locoman
I must admit I had to do some biblical research after your initial post.
Here is what I found

There can be only 1
Jehovah / Yahweh / יהוה

The scripture you used is Psalm 110 is an interesting scripture.
Of David. A melody.
Verse 1

1 The utterance of Jehovah to my Lord is: “Sit at my right hand Until I place your enemies as a stool for your feet.”

Who is writing this, King David, so Jesus Christ is a Lord to him and he is/was King David's Lord. He is saying here Jehovah is saying this to my Lord(Messiah)
"Sit at my right hand". Two different entities, logically two different names.


2 The rod of your strength Jehovah will send out of Zion, [saying:] “Go subduing in the midst of your enemies.”

Again this individuals strength emanates from Jehovah, thus he is sent out of Zion being a descendant of David and subdue's in the midst of his enemies.


4 Jehovah has sworn (and he will feel no regret): “You are a priest to time indefinite According to the manner of Mel·chiz´e·dek!”

Who is this priest to time indefinite?

Hebrews 7 11-17 answers this.

11 If, then, perfection were really through the Levitical priesthood, (for with it as a feature the people were given the Law,) what further need would there be for another priest to arise according to the manner of Mel·chiz´e·dek and not said to be according to the manner of Aaron?

12 For since the priesthood is being changed, there comes to be of necessity a change also of the law.
13 For the man respecting whom these things are said has been a member of another tribe, from which no one has officiated at the altar.
14 For it is quite plain that our Lord has sprung up out of Judah, a tribe about which Moses spoke nothing concerning priests.
15 And it is still more abundantly clear that with a similarity to Mel·chiz´e·dek there arises another priest,
16 who has become such, not according to the law of a commandment depending upon the flesh, but according to the power of an indestructible life,
17 for in witness it is said: “You are a priest forever according to the manner of Mel·chiz´e·dek.”


This is Jesus Christ

Psalm 5

5 Jehovah himself at your right hand Will certainly break kings to pieces on the day of his anger.

I understood the point you are making here, if Jehovah is the Prime God how could he too be on the right hand? As the Lord was previously mentioned as being on the right as well in Psalm 1. So it is a good point.
But we must understand context of expression.

Two other scriptures in Psalms help explain this

121 :5

5 Jehovah is guarding you. Jehovah is your shade on your right hand.

And
Psalm 16:8

8 I have placed Jehovah in front of me constantly. Because [he] is at my right hand, I shall not be made to totter.


Again this was King David speaking, here he is saying Jehovah is on my right hand meaning Jehovah is his ally and power.

Logically we can understand Jehovah is on Jesus right hand in the same context.


Again
There can be only 1
Jehovah / Yahweh / יהוה

And Jesus Christ is on his right side.



posted on Oct, 13 2009 @ 06:59 PM
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Interesting thread...going to look up the verse at Blue Letter Bible....

Just want to add what verse I always found to be strange, if Yahweh was god, the most high.

Deut. 32:8-9

Looking at the Hebrew words that were used, it seems to imply that El and Yahweh were not one in the same....because El seems to give Yahweh his inheritance, which was Israel.

Curious as to others take on this verse also if anyone cares to share. You can use the Blue Letter Bible site to see the Hebrew words that were used by clicking on the -blue letter box- with a 'C' next to any verse, very interesting to check it with all curiosities about translations.



posted on Oct, 13 2009 @ 07:19 PM
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Hey Locoman:

As you may have heard, paleo-Hebrew is unpointed (text contains no vowells) but it written out in consonants only.

YHWH is the unpointed paleo Hebrew of the post exilic clan god of Israel (post 480BCE). YHWH is technically pronounced 'Yah=weh' as we see in the Greek LXX Septuaginta for Exodus chapter 3): it is NOT pronounced Jehovah/Jahovah.

Jehovah is a mis-pointing (mis-vowelling - adding vowes to unvowelled paleoHebrew is called POINTING and was not done until AD 960--when the word eDONAI was spoken everytime YHWH was written in the text: the vowels of eDONAI were placed into YHWH to REMIND the reader to speak 'ADONOI' when he came acros YHWH and not say YAH-WEH)

Prior to the Babylonian Exile of 587 BCE to BCE 500 Levitical priests from Jerusalem (and anyone who worked in metals, or could foster rebellion) several different ancient Cannantie clan gods & goddesses were worshipped (often in groups of 3) in several cult centres around the Levant (Dagon, EL, Baal, Asherah etc.) YHWH was just one of many 'gods' woshipped at various temple shrines e.g. Shomeron, Gilgal, Shechem, Shiloah, Megiddo, Carneim, Beth-El etc.). Most of these northern 'Israelitish' shrines were destroyed after the Exile, but even at Jerusalem, clan chiefs like David and Jedediah ("Sholomon") worshipped many gods besides YHWH (if you believe I-II Kings and the archaeological digs around the Solomonic temple precints proior to BCE 600 !)

Suffice it to say that for most of the history of Yisro'el there were a plurality of 'gods' until 2nd Temple times beginning around 480BCE , when the cult of YHWH became predominant in Jerusalem

NB: only 4 out of the originally 24 'Yahwistic' Leviticial families came back from Exile Babylon when the Persians conquored Babylon c. 530 BC, and the numebrs had to be filled up with gentiles (netanim, 'given ones') : it was during this time that the books of the 'old testament' began to be edited and written in the forms we read them today, i.e. with a post-Exilic rosy coloured glass.

The remaining 20 levetical priestly families stayed in Exile in Babylon away from Palestine, and most dumped YHWH and intermarried with the locals rescinding their Yahwistic roots and taking priestly duties etc. at other shrines abroad. Some remained Yahwistic until the middle ages.

The 4 Levitical families that DID come back to Jerusalem around BCE 480 were the most ardent pro-Yahwistic loyalists, hence the post Exilic mantra: 'Hear O Yisro'el, YHWH is our clan-god, YHWH alone' (sometimes mis-translated into English as "Hear O Israel, THE LORD our GOD THE LORD is ONE' which lacks a verb and makes no grammatical sense at all).

Here is a rough modern re-translation into American English of the PaleoHebrew Unpointed consonantal Masoretic Text of Psalm 110:

It might make more sense to you now that you know we are dealing with an un-pointed text originally--the texts exists in several versions found in Caves 4 and 11 amongst the Dead Sea Scrolls, including the earlier Hebrew Vorlage Underlay to the Greek Septuaginta LXX, which is 1400 years older than the later Masoretic Text (MT) version read by Jews and Protestants today:

NB Psalm 110 (=Greek LXX Psalm 109) is an early adaptation of a Canaanite (pre-Judaean) Enthronement or ‘Royal Psalm of the Davidds’ probably used every time a new clan-chief of Judah or Israel was crowned...

A Psalm of David.
110:1 110:1 YHWH said unto my lord (i.e. the new Daviddic Clan Chief about to be crowned) : Sit down at my Right Hand, and [watch] me turn your enemies into your foot-stool !

110:2 May YHWH send out the Rod of power on your behalf from Zion:
May you be able to rule in the midst of your enemies !

110:3 The unpointed Hebrew Vorlage Underlay to the Greek LXX adds:

May you have Dominion [amidst the glory of] the holy ones in the Day of your Power

Then unpointed Hebrew Vorlage Underlay to the Greek LXX then adds:
[I have begotten you] from the womb: you have upon you the dew of the morning of your youth.

110:4 YHWH hath sworn, he will not recant: You are a Priest eternally, after the order of a Priest-King (‘Melchi-Zedek’).

110:5 With YHWH at your right hand, may the [king] dash in pieces [rival] kings in the Day of his Fury !

110:6 May he pass Judgment on all the goyim, may he fill up the number with dead bodies; yea, may he crush the heads of the Rabbim (‘the crowds’) of the land !

110:7 Yet may he be able to drink of the brook by the road [in peace] that his head may be exalted [over his enemies] !




[edit on 13-10-2009 by Sigismundus]



posted on Oct, 13 2009 @ 07:30 PM
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Originally posted by Blue_Jay33
Locoman
I must admit I had to do some biblical research after your initial post.
Here is what I found

There can be only 1
Jehovah / Yahweh / יהוה

The scripture you used is Psalm 110 is an interesting scripture.
Of David. A melody.


Nicely explained, thank you!



posted on Oct, 13 2009 @ 11:46 PM
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It isn't referring to two Jesus's just two prophets of Jesus. Also the order of the Melchizedek is just the Melchizedek preisthood which Jesus held and gave to his apostles/disciples and what not. In present day it is bestowed upon the Elders of the LDS faith, usually at the age of 18 sometimes later but not before.

Also, Jehova and Jesus are not the same person. Jehova is the holy name of God, while Jesus is well Jesus. I know some religions see them as the same entity (the godhead or trinity) along with the holy spirit, I however do not believe so, imo they are all individuals and as 3 seperate individuals they form the godhead/trinity.

[edit on 13-10-2009 by nuker123]

[edit on 13-10-2009 by nuker123]



posted on Oct, 14 2009 @ 01:56 AM
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Originally posted by LeoVirgo
Interesting thread...going to look up the verse at Blue Letter Bible....

Just want to add what verse I always found to be strange, if Yahweh was god, the most high.

Deut. 32:8-9

Looking at the Hebrew words that were used, it seems to imply that El and Yahweh were not one in the same....because El seems to give Yahweh his inheritance, which was Israel.

Curious as to others take on this verse also if anyone cares to share. You can use the Blue Letter Bible site to see the Hebrew words that were used by clicking on the -blue letter box- with a 'C' next to any verse, very interesting to check it with all curiosities about translations.




"El" or "Elohim" refers to the "Family of God." Not one single God. At the moment "Elohim" consists of the Father and the Son. When the saints of Christ are resurrected, they will be married into the family of God. When the resurrection of judgement takes place, those who repent will be adopted into the family of God. I'm glad you asked that.



posted on Oct, 14 2009 @ 02:13 AM
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Originally posted by Blue_Jay33
Locoman
I must admit I had to do some biblical research after your initial post.
Here is what I found

There can be only 1
Jehovah / Yahweh / יהוה

The scripture you used is Psalm 110 is an interesting scripture.
Of David. A melody.
Verse 1

1 The utterance of Jehovah to my Lord is: “Sit at my right hand Until I place your enemies as a stool for your feet.”

Who is writing this, King David, so Jesus Christ is a Lord to him and he is/was King David's Lord. He is saying here Jehovah is saying this to my Lord(Messiah)
"Sit at my right hand". Two different entities, logically two different names.


2 The rod of your strength Jehovah will send out of Zion, [saying:] “Go subduing in the midst of your enemies.”

Again this individuals strength emanates from Jehovah, thus he is sent out of Zion being a descendant of David and subdue's in the midst of his enemies.


4 Jehovah has sworn (and he will feel no regret): “You are a priest to time indefinite According to the manner of Mel·chiz´e·dek!”

Who is this priest to time indefinite?

Hebrews 7 11-17 answers this.

11 If, then, perfection were really through the Levitical priesthood, (for with it as a feature the people were given the Law,) what further need would there be for another priest to arise according to the manner of Mel·chiz´e·dek and not said to be according to the manner of Aaron?

12 For since the priesthood is being changed, there comes to be of necessity a change also of the law.
13 For the man respecting whom these things are said has been a member of another tribe, from which no one has officiated at the altar.
14 For it is quite plain that our Lord has sprung up out of Judah, a tribe about which Moses spoke nothing concerning priests.
15 And it is still more abundantly clear that with a similarity to Mel·chiz´e·dek there arises another priest,
16 who has become such, not according to the law of a commandment depending upon the flesh, but according to the power of an indestructible life,
17 for in witness it is said: “You are a priest forever according to the manner of Mel·chiz´e·dek.”


This is Jesus Christ

Psalm 5

5 Jehovah himself at your right hand Will certainly break kings to pieces on the day of his anger.

I understood the point you are making here, if Jehovah is the Prime God how could he too be on the right hand? As the Lord was previously mentioned as being on the right as well in Psalm 1. So it is a good point.
But we must understand context of expression.

Two other scriptures in Psalms help explain this

121 :5

5 Jehovah is guarding you. Jehovah is your shade on your right hand.

And
Psalm 16:8

8 I have placed Jehovah in front of me constantly. Because [he] is at my right hand, I shall not be made to totter.


Again this was King David speaking, here he is saying Jehovah is on my right hand meaning Jehovah is his ally and power.

Logically we can understand Jehovah is on Jesus right hand in the same context.


Again
There can be only 1
Jehovah / Yahweh / יהוה

And Jesus Christ is on his right side.



I am well aware of the fact Jesus and the Father are two different beings but I can't help to think since the scripture points out that YHWH is the Almighty God and the Rock (referring to YHWH in the OT) is explained as Jesus in the NT among so many other things pointing to Jesus being the entity known in the OT as YHWH, it's hard to not question it.

Also, there is a family of God (Elohim) and it just seems to me that YHWH may be used as the name of the family.... YHWH Elohim... "Lord of the Family of God." Jesus is referred to as Lord and the tetragrammation is translated LORD in all caps in the KJV. This is a sign of leadership and authority which we can agree both Christ and the Father hold authority.

Christ is also referred to in the NT as the "WORD" of God (Elohim) or the "Spokesperson of the Family of God". If you take this in the literal sense, anything spoken to the prophets and patriarchs in the OT by YHWH would be considered the Word of God.... aka: Jesus. I also used this little list in a previous thread on bts about the may names of the Father and Son...

Names used to denote the Father:

YHWH
Yahweh
Yehovah
JHVH
Jahveh
Jehovah

Names used to denote the Son:

Yeshua
Jeshua
Joshua
Jesus


Does anyone see a similarity to these list of names? Jesus in all variants of the name means "YHWH is my Salvation". Jehovah/Yahweh is actually in the name of Jesus. This isn't just coincidence.

Since Jehovah/YHWH is the name of the Father, is it so crazy to think the Son may have been given the Father's name? Thus explaining why there are two YHWH's in Psalm 110. Too many similarities to ignore. Too many proofs to explain it away as Jesus being the Father and Son. that is simply not true. The Trinity is false doctrine. This is a reference to the family of God and that the Son may have inherited the Father's name or taken His Father's name to speak the words of His Father to the patriarchs and let them know there is only one Elohim... only one Family of God and only one Jehovah/YHWH. There is plenty of times the scripture points to one as a unity and not a singlular. Such as man and woman marrying and becoming one with each other. Jehovah/YHWH is one as a family is one. Just some points to ponder on.



posted on Oct, 14 2009 @ 02:16 AM
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To me, it isn't very surprising. Actually, there could be dozens of Jehovahs around as I see it.

Jehovah, when translated, means something like 'I am that I am', thus meaning ordinary individual in the original meaning of that word, which is 'un-divideable'.

To me, bible is nothing more than a psychological drama of human being, told from certain perspective.

This is not actually the matter at hand, but there are 2 sons of father hanging in cross at the passion of christ. 'Barabbas' means 'son of the father' which jesus is claimed to be also. Jeshua Barabbas


-v

[edit on 14-10-2009 by v01i0]



posted on Oct, 14 2009 @ 02:27 AM
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reply to post by v01i0
 


"I AM" refers to Jehovah being "ever existent" meaning He has always been.

I Am and always have been existent..... I am who I am..... I am that I am.

Thanks for contributing. This isn't going to be turned into a smear thread for athiests or alternate believing members to discredit though. I want it to be a productive thread for Abrahamic believers to discuss. I'm not saying that's what you're doing... it's just a general statement for all. Your response was very civil and to the point and I thank you for that. Peace be with you.



posted on Oct, 14 2009 @ 03:17 AM
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reply to post by Locoman8
 


You're welcome although there is nothing to thank me for.

Sincerely, I am not very good with this bible interpretation thing - I am more into the original meaning of the words (generally, not just bible).

Anyhow, your OP was very interesting and new information for me altogether. I tend to interpret the bible by my own way, trying to avoid common interpretations no matter how inaccurate or accurate they might be.

Why I voiced my opinion was because your OP somehow resonated with that I've been painting within my mind. I sincerely thank you for you post and gave it a star as it was insightful point in my opinion.

Peace with you too,

-v



posted on Oct, 14 2009 @ 04:15 AM
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reply to post by v01i0
 


Well okay. And thanks for the star. I don't blame you for avoiding the whole "interpretation" thing. Peace.



posted on Oct, 14 2009 @ 05:51 AM
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Originally posted by Locoman8
The word Jehovah in Verse 5, however, was altered by the Levitical Massorites to read Adonay. The Levites were hiding the truth that the Adon of Verse 1 was a second Jehovah!


umm... proof?



posted on Oct, 14 2009 @ 07:09 AM
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Originally posted by miriam0566

Originally posted by Locoman8
The word Jehovah in Verse 5, however, was altered by the Levitical Massorites to read Adonay. The Levites were hiding the truth that the Adon of Verse 1 was a second Jehovah!


umm... proof?



Well for starters you can read this:



In Christ’s quotation of Psalm 110 in the Gospel of Matthew, we find the Greek word Kurios, or Lord, used in place of the Old Testament name Jehovah. The Greek word Kurios, the equivalent of Jehovah, is also used in place of the name Adon.


which proves that Jehovah was used in both senses of the word Lord.



posted on Oct, 14 2009 @ 07:25 AM
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Myrtales Instinct pointed it out well !

As long people and religions do not understand the
difference between son of man and 'jesus',
and the relation between god and his son of man,
which is everybody who will be saved, but in levels,
and those levels include future levels before they are one,
so jesus as glorified can carry all son of man in him,
and the relation between god (all) and the false gods,
which are created for a reason, even of they are false,
Religion can not come home .

Son of man = all who will be saved = humans = caring and growing
Jesus spoke from this son, the son of humanity.
In levels, first as the prophets in marriage, after paradise (millenium)
giving a next level child, the son of man as total. new jerusalem.



[edit on 14-10-2009 by pasttheclouds]






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