WMD's Found! Or were they?

It was only a matter of time. We have found 2 bombs today. It's not a surprise this happened. I was expecting it all along. Some of you think that they might be planted. That isn't true but I am wondering how we could disproove it?


We know the U.S for it's values. There is no reason to not believe this.

ummm I highly doubt they will be found in Iraq.

I believe that they were spirited into Syria, and then if you believe the Japanese they were then taken to N. Korea.

(Don't ask me how though)

I posted the new link in another thread.

WHY HAVN"T I HEARD A PEEP ABOUT THIS????

I AM NOT A TROLL!!!!!!!

you have forgotten the time for this to happend is just to good for the republicans, when bush is so low in public opinion polls, dont you agree with this?

Do you have a source?

Fox News says that the WMDs that were found are the Sarin Gas Bomb that was used, and another chemical weapon, one with Mustard Gas I think.

It's a start.

But let's see the stockpiles that we were supposedly going after.

I do think it could be a ploy to try and bring Bush's approval rating up.

If by WMD you mean Weapon of Minor Destruction, yes. Check the receipt. Is it the stuff Rumsfeld sold to Hussain?

The sarin nerve gas shell was from way back when. It was basically when Iraq was experimenting with how to disperse sarin the best. These is a pre gulf war weapon and due to it's experimental nature was probably just found by some unsuspecting person.

The reason they Know it's experimental is because it uses 2 chemicals that mix upon detonation to make sarin. Iraq quit devoloping these over a decade and a half ago. Not a big deal.

Originally posted by Hoppinmad1
Iraq quit devoloping these over a decade and a half ago. Not a big deal.

They said that they quit making them a decade and a half ago.
But then again, they also said that they destroyed every single one of them.

question:
what's the best place to hide "speciale" effect bombs
answer:
mixed among other conventional bombs in a bombdepot

Originally posted by Leveller

Originally posted by Hoppinmad1
Iraq quit devoloping these over a decade and a half ago. Not a big deal.

They said that they quit making them a decade and a half ago.
But then again, they also said that they destroyed every single one of them.

this is a very good point.

the UN said iraq didnt have ANYTHING. saddam said he didnt have anything, it was ALL destroyed.

so where did this come from? a destroyed stockpile? yeah right.

you dont get something from nothing.

it hard for something to exist once you destroy it. right?

if the un and saddam claimed that there were no WMD and they were all destroyed yet this still existed, someone is lying (saddam) or someone was fooled (UN). looks like both is the case. (and dont give me the "well some may have slipped by them" excuse. even if ONE canister or one round got past UN inspectors someone at the UN wasnt doing their job correctly. a leak is a leak regardless who's watch its on and it was on the UN's watch.)



now before anyone goes off calling me a bush neo-con (again)...i dont support bush but i also dont support the idea that just because a known dictator says he destroyed all his weapons that they were. migs buried in the desert prove that. if he buried planes that i believe he was allowed to own (perhaps seekerof or someone else can tell me either way?)...what else did he bury? stands to reason there were other things buried in that HUGE desert of a country. why bury things if you have nothing to hide? seriously tell me that.

i also dont support the idea that the UN should take anyone at their word. amazing how the UN took saddam at his but when we said he still had them everyone at the UN looked down their brows at us and tried to act like poor saddam was just being bullied.

given enough time all things come to light...

question:
if you were an arab where would you hide "forbidden weapons" ???

answer:
in the mosque i would dig a hole,big enough to contain the forbidden weapons and fill up again,ciment the surface and put carpets back on top !
===>>
how many groundsurfaces of mosque have been controlled with visual inspections by the usa just by having temp. removed all the carpets ?

0,00 !!

[Edited on 18-5-2004 by NOGODSINTHEUNIVERSE]

I feel your post makes several leaps of faith which aren't logical.

"the UN said Iraq didn't have ANYTHING. saddam said he didn't have anything, it was ALL destroyed. "

For a start that's not accurate. The UN said they couldn't find any and saddam said All his Chemical and biological weapons had been dismantled.

"so where did this come from? a destroyed stockpile? yeah right. "

Quite possible. Its a single shell containing defunct chemical weaponry that has no firing device. If it was in a gun, that might be a different story, If there were several shells, or if there was a working sarin production facility that would also be a different case, However this is a single shell found "somewhere" in a country That has been involved in wars for 30 years. I'm amazed the place isn't littered with the things. Your also assuming Its saddams. Why can't this be from a terrorist organisation, Why can't it have been purchased by Saddam after war was inevitable ?

"it hard for something to exist once you destroy it. right? "

You can't "destroy" an entire country's weapons cache. What do you do with it ? Put it in big trucks and dump it in another country ? Blow it up showering your country with volatile chemicals ?

The best thing to do is what the US and the USSR do. Dismantle them, and then bury them. Which is what we asked Saddam to do...Which is probably what Saddam did...Which is why your going to find stuff like this, I'm amazed more hasn't been found. It does not however, represent an operational WMD.

"if the un and saddam claimed that there were no WMD and they were all destroyed yet this still existed, someone is lying (saddam) or someone was fooled (UN)."

Or saddam thought they were destroyed, or some got misplaced, or some were brought into the country after the war started etc etc

"looks like both is the case. (and dont give me the "well some may have slipped by them" excuse. even if ONE canister or one round got past UN inspectors someone at the UN wasnt doing their job correctly."

Possibly... But so what ? We went to war because he had WMD's we have found 1 non operational sarin shell with no firing device. That does not constitute a "clear and present danger"

"if he buried planes that i believe he was allowed to own (perhaps seekerof or someone else can tell me either way?)...what else did he bury?"

Probably lots of stuff, see paragraph above about "destroying" weapons

"stands to reason there were other things buried in that HUGE desert of a country."

Yes... But that does not mean that Saddam had WMD's your using two unrelated pieces of information to "deduce" a third.

"i also don't support the idea that the UN should take anyone at their word. amazing how the UN took saddam at his but when we said he still had them everyone at the UN looked down their brows at us and tried to act like poor saddam was just being bullied."

This is just wrong. The US said he had WMD's The UN spent years looking for them. They didn't find any. They sent a report saying that they didn't find any. The US said it had secret classified proof. The UN asked to see it, The US refused, The US went to war, then didn't find any, then said they doubted they ever would and didn't think Saddam had them in the first place.

"given enough time all things come to light..."

I'd like to think that however if you believe that a single sarin shell proves that Saddam had a WMD programme then that's a lot of time and a pretty feeble light.

Your also assuming Its saddams. Why can't this be from a terrorist organisation, Why can't it have been purchased by Saddam after war was inevitable ?

well they did say it was of iraqi manufacture...and lets just play the what if game you insist on playing.

lets say saddam didnt have any but went out and bought some. he wasnt allowed to have any at all so even if he went out and bought some AFTER he's still in violation of owning them. dont like it? take it up with the UN, it's their resolutions, not mine.

You can't "destroy" an entire country's weapons cache.

sure you can if you pay attention to detail and want to do the job correctly. funny how certain people agaisnt this war have been able to tell us how many canisters or what bio and chemical weapons the US has but noone has a clue how much saddam had...surely if one cares enough they would also know how much saddam had.

What do you do with it ? Put it in big trucks and dump it in another country ? Blow it up showering your country with volatile chemicals ?

there are ways of destroying them, the technology does exist. or are you not aware of this???

The best thing to do is what the US and the USSR do. Dismantle them, and then bury them.

sounds a lot like storage more than the UN's resolution which called for the DESTRUCTION of his WMD. not burying...and yes you can destroy this stuff.

that still leaves it available for other people to find. and if he only buried them then he knew where they were. why wouldnt he have bothered to tell the UN where they were? because he knew the UN would want to dig it all up and remove it from his country. and he didnt say he dismantled them, he said he destroyed his stockpiles. thats makes a difference. and i know some of them were buried, i've seen footage of some of it being buried. which again goes back to two problems...A they still exist and B people can still get to them. two big no nos wouldnt you agree? lets play your what if game again shall we? what if saddam decided to tell certain people who then told certaion other people where to find these things...isn this not within the realm of possibility? i'm not suggesting he did, perhaps someone else who know where these thigns were decided to dig em up or share the info with other people. see how even having them buried is a HUGE problem?

Or saddam thought they were destroyed, or some got misplaced, or some were brought into the country after the war started etc etc

one doesnt assume, they verify and since it was HIS butt on the line with the UN he should have cared enough even for his own people to make sure of these things. or are you excusing him of any incompetency?

Possibly... But so what ? We went to war because he had WMD's we have found 1 non operational sarin shell with no firing device. That does not constitute a "clear and present danger"

my assertion goes back to UN resolutions, yours goes back to an idiots speech....he wasnt allowed to have them. he was to declare and then destroy said weapons. but he also went back later and said he never had any to begin with. well is that true? i know america gave him those weapons so i would think america would know what he was in possession of. so if he lied about even having them wouldnt it make you just a tiny bity suspicious of anything he says in general? i know politicians lie so i know i cant trust them, same with saddam.

Yes... But that does not mean that Saddam had WMD's your using two unrelated pieces of information to "deduce" a third.

really? am i now? well we know america gave him those WMD so america knew what he had.

he buried migs in the desert and he also buried some WMD in the desert (under UN supervision).

or are you going to continue to say he never had any at all?

This is just wrong. The US said he had WMD's The UN spent years looking for them. They didn't find any. They sent a report saying that they didn't find any. The US said it had secret classified proof. The UN asked to see it, The US refused, The US went to war, then didn't find any, then said they doubted they ever would and didn't think Saddam had them in the first place.

well america did give those WMD to him. i guess your knowledge of US history doesnt go back very far huh?

this isnt exactly an obscure fact, its common knowledge!

the world knows america game him those WMD.

now all of a sudden he never had them???????????

now thats what i call an amazing magic trick!

i remember some newsfootage showing:

-results of gasbombs dropped on kurd village by saddams air foce.

-empty bombcannisters to be used for gas destroyed by USA forces

-inspectionteam for womd at the entrancegate of one of the depots asking to be allowed to come in for doing their inspectionwork but holded up till by the backdoor some big trucks had left,unseen by the inspectionteam, the depot .
luckily one of the inspectionteam filmed the scene from atop kinda watertower next to the depot.

if it was possible to transport several times heavy loads of goldbars to syria... it must have been a "piece of cake" to transport some loads of bombs to desolate spots too...don't you think ?

"well they did say it was of iraqi manufacture...and lets just play the what if game you insist on playing. "

Sorry, but you started the what if game when you made the ridiculous assumption that a sarin shell is proof that saddam was stock piling WMD's / didn't destroy the originals.

"lets say saddam didnt have any but went out and bought some. he wasnt allowed to have any at all so even if he went out and bought some AFTER he's still in violation of owning them. dont like it? take it up with the UN, it's their resolutions, not mine."

Er, yes... But we were bombing him. I don't really think you can take Saddam to task for fighting back, its called a war.


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You can't "destroy" an entire country's weapons cache.

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"Sure you can if you pay attention to detail and want to do the job correctly. funny how certain people agaisnt this war have been able to tell us how many canisters or what bio and chemical weapons the US has but noone has a clue how much saddam had...surely if one cares enough they would also know how much saddam had."

This is a ridiculous statement. The US publishes how many bombs it owns. It probably owns more but official figures are easy to come by. Saddam was supposed to declare what he had and then destroy it. No one has any proof that either country provided accurate information, you are coming from the ASSUMPTION That saddam lied.

"there are ways of destroying them, the technology does exist. or are you not aware of this??? "

No I wasn't Please tell me how to destroy "them" we don't know what "they" are. Sarin shells ? Scuds ? Nukes ? what ? You and I don't know what he had. But lets say he had all three. Sure you can vaporise stuff, you can blow it up in controlled ways, you can Fire it into the sun, or you can do. Dismantle it, and bury it. That's what Saddam probably did.

"one doesn't assume, they verify and since it was HIS butt on the line with the UN he should have cared enough even for his own people to make sure of these things. or are you excusing him of any incompetence? "

What the hell are you blathering about. We don't know where the shell came from, maybe its his, maybe its someone else's, who knows, I'm not even sure a single sarin shell counts as a WMD But even if it does. Saddam was the president of a government. Do you think Bush could successfully oversee the complete destruction of every weapon in the US and not leave a single shell ?

Your living in a dream world.


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Possibly... But so what ? We went to war because he had WMD's we have found 1 non operational sarin shell with no firing device. That does not constitute a "clear and present danger"

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"my assertion goes back to UN resolutions, yours goes back to an idiots speech....he wasnt allowed to have them. he was to declare and then destroy said weapons. but he also went back later and said he never had any to begin with. well is that true? I know America gave him those weapons so I would think America would know what he was in possession of. so if he lied about even having them wouldn't it make you just a tiny bity suspicious of anything he says in general? I know politicians lie so I know I cant trust them, same with saddam. "

Saddam purchased weapons from a variety of sources including Russia and India. I don't believe the US gave him any sarin. I think you need to clarify what you mean by a WMD. An Apache helicopter is not a WMD.

"really? am i now? well we know america gave him those WMD so america knew what he had. "

Yes you are, unfortunately your also quite obviously an idiot, hmmm looks like I can't use the ignore feature on you... great. I'll just have to do it the old fashioned way.

[Edited on 18-5-2004 by Simon]

We'll be "finding" these sorts of nuggets quite frequently from here on in.
Weapons of minor destruction like Sarin is the bathtub pharmacy baseline for every country on the planet.
This is not high tech, this is not hard to make.

What IS IMPORTANT to take away from this find:

- Rumsfield's oh-shucks-hold-your-horses-let's-get-it-back-to-a-real-lab-and-see-what-it-is bunch of happy horseshiite. As if the on the spot field test for bio/nerve agents which our military has dedicated detection kits to find ( since the whole world has this stuff) is somehow flawed.
Can't let the climax come tooo soon for an October Suprise - Part Deux, can you?

- Timing, timing, TIMING!!
You have to take every "revalation" or "bulletin" or "find" fed to the complicit corporate media and put it into a filter of the on going scandal that needs some distraction. Suprising how many false alarms or news of negligiable worth gets hoisted on us that way, no?

We'll be "finding" these sorts of nuggets quite frequently from here on in.

I agree with you and thanks for coming around. I think the weapons were hidden very well and the people who are the most radical Saddamites are finally bringing them out to wreak more havoc. This is the tip of the iceberg. Bush and company are being proved right finally.

Isn't sad that when people are being beheaded and WMD road side bombs being found and leaders being assassinated that CNN and company are trolling for more news play on the poor naked souls forced to wear underwear on their heads in a US run prison.

Who is obviously partisan here? I ask you..

Variable

please bear in mind that all over the world,INCLUDING saddams country CNN is watched !!
why should they provide the enemy with valuable information ?? intelligence you know...very important.
think tactics please ! do not help your enemy by giving them on a "digital" plate important data he can use and abuse against you...
sometimes they also "play" so called info that is valuable to the enemy but it is'nt valuable at all !
just to distress the enemy and making a genuine "ASS" out of them...