Shanksville Deconstructed - Part One...

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posted on Oct, 8 2009 @ 10:17 AM
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Originally posted by Joey Canoli
And on and on.

It's a sign of the intelluctually bankrupt and/or delusional idiot.


Technically, you're using the most common technique of 'debunkers' - "I can't actually answer the question being raised in the OP, so I'll simply attack the argument or the poster's character... That will appear to give me some credibility..."

And on and on and on... very transparent.

Here's your chance Joey Canoli... how do YOU explain the grass circled in the photo above remaining intact after the impact of a Boeing? It's clearly inside the crater created by the plane impacting the ground... what are your thoughts?

Rewey




posted on Oct, 8 2009 @ 10:42 AM
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Originally posted by Rewey

Originally posted by hooper
Where is this official story that claims that most of Flight 93 embedded in the soil?


As I outlined above, the 'Official Story' is a collection of what is put forward by the media, the government spokespersons and government groups such as NIST, and supporters of the OS who post around internet forums like this.

This is exactly the same as the 'truth movement' being comprised of controlled demolition, lasers from space and no-planers, even though most people in the truth movement find these ideas nonsensical and absurd.

If you want to appreciate the ether that is the 'official story', simply look around the various threads and listen to what all the people on 'your side' of the argument are saying.


Originally posted by hooper
Also, those are descriptions by reporters or to reporters from first responders. What the ground feels like underfoot to someone without any background in soils engineering, earthwork or geology and its actual compaction are two completely different things. Wet sand may feel very soft under foot, but is very, very resistant to compression.


Believe me, I've done more research into the soil at Shanksville than anyone on ATS. You can read it here:

Shanksville soil

All I ask is that if you have comments to make on this, please do it via U2U, or please find the thread that was created specifically to discuss that document - I really do want THIS thread to remain on topic in order to achieve its objective...

Rewey




So basically, your version of the "official story" is what ever you see fit to include. So why not just call it "rewey's story" and be honest about it? I mean, by you reasoning, if I post that the impact crater is five miles wide and two miles deep then that becomes "the official story", right?

I happen to note that when you quoted me you skipped the little part where I talked about soil compaction rates. Is this how you are compliling your official version?

I would love to see your soil analysis, however, I do not download things from unknown websites. Just answer one question - how much time did you spend at the site and in the surrounding area collecting data and developing proxies?



posted on Oct, 8 2009 @ 01:05 PM
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Originally posted by impressme
Just like the disinformationist web sites where some of the OS believers get their info so, they can go on pretending all this nonsense is true, just goes to show how ignorant and gullible they really are.


Oh, good grief, dude, wake up. We don't need to be reading any gov't web sites to understand that claiming secret gov't conspirators made a fake crash site in the middle of nowhere, and then turned around and covered up the fake crash site they made, is ridiculous. Such a stunt would be idiotic, wasteful, offers no benefit whatsoever to the conspirators, and only adds unecessary layers of convolusion to an already convoluted conspiracy plot. We know the conspirators already had two or more disposable aircraft under their control so they wouldn't need to fake anything. Simply crash a real aircraft into the ground. BOOM, they're done. Wouldn't even take them ten seconds to do.

This bit absolutely had to have come from one of those damned fool conspiracy web sites putting out complete rubbish to deliberately get people all paranoid. I have a hard time believing that an otherwise intelligent, rational person would ever accept something so ridiculous unless it had originally been packaged in some sexy, convincing sounding rhetoric. If these web sites said the planes were deliberately crashed to eliminate the witnesses aboard, I could understand that. If these web sites said they covered the crash site up to hide the fact it something other than a passenger jet that crashed there, I could understand that. OTOH claiming that nothing crashed there *at all* is frankly a complete waste of my time as well as yours to debate.

There's ignorance and gullibility here, all right, but it ain't with us.


Since you have the answers to the OP and we are all to “paranoid” to think for our selves why don’t you answer the OP questions to why there is undisturbed grass where United 93 allegedly crashed.


When you can explain why on EARTH gov't conspirators would even want to waste their time making a fake crash site in the middle of nowhere, then I'll ponder why the grass would be undisturbed.



posted on Oct, 8 2009 @ 02:41 PM
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Originally posted by Rewey

Originally posted by Joey Canoli
*HE* estimates the size and slope of the hole, and a little later, it will become the "official story".


If you disagree with what I've written, please feel free to add your own estimations or calculations. You're using a typical ad hominem attack - play the ball, not the man. But I guess you just find it easier to criticise others than to contribute something useful, or a new perspective... well done, genius...



You're missing the point, as usual with troofers.

You're attacking the "official story", using the size of the hole and comparing it to the dimensions of the plane.......

.....without providing any statements from the "official story" that actually address the size of the hole. Same MO as when troofers say the hole in the Pentagon is too small..... ignoring the fact that the "official story" gives dimensions of the hole, evidence of where the wings hit, etc, that perfectly match the plane.

You're a good little trooper/troofer. You're following the twoof playbook to the letter by constructing incorrect arguments from incorrect statements of what the "official story" says, or in this case, fabricating a statement from nothing.

That's a strawman.

Sorry to call you out on it, but you're not gonna convince anyone new with strawman arguments. Only the already delusional will believe what you have to say.

Have fun.



posted on Oct, 8 2009 @ 02:56 PM
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Originally posted by Rewey
how do YOU explain the grass circled in the photo above remaining intact after the impact of a Boeing? It's clearly inside the crater created by the plane impacting the ground... what are your thoughts?

Rewey


My thoughts?

Your belief is a perfect example of confirmation bias.

What do I see?

I see: yellow grass=dry grass=dry soil.

And the roots holding together some dry soil from that particular plant. So, it could either have been blown into the air and come down in the same area, or it could have simply slipped down the side of the nearly vertical side of the now loosened soil of the crater.

There's no way to know for sure is the only thing can be stated positively.

However, your personal incredulity and confirmation bias will never allow you to admit that you have NOT discovered anything of significance.

A clump of grass is your smoking gun evidence?


[edit on 8-10-2009 by Joey Canoli]



posted on Oct, 8 2009 @ 03:05 PM
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Originally posted by Joey Canoli

Originally posted by Rewey
how do YOU explain the grass circled in the photo above remaining intact after the impact of a Boeing? It's clearly inside the crater created by the plane impacting the ground... what are your thoughts?

Rewey


My thoughts?

Your belief is a perfect example of confirmation bias.

What do I see?

I see: yellow grass=dry grass=dry soil.

And the roots holding together some dry soil from that particular plant. So, it could either have been blown into the air and come down in the same area, or it could have simply slipped down the side of the nearly vertical side of the now loosened soil of the crater.

There's no way to know for sure is the only thing can be stated positively.

However, your personal incredulity and confirmation bias will never allow you to admit that you have NOT discovered anything of significance.

A clump of grass is your smoking gun evidence?


[edit on 8-10-2009 by Joey Canoli]


Also, this supposed deconstruction has still not established that the areas circled are even in the impact area.



posted on Oct, 8 2009 @ 05:40 PM
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Originally posted by hooper
Where the hell is this "official story" written so that we can all see it?

See, here's the rub... right here.

hooper is stating that there's no official government story with regards to all of the details of the alleged Flight UA93. I believe him. I can barely find anything remotely 'official' about the whole incident.

Now ask yourselves this - why is there barely any official details to be found about the whole incident???

Why are some official government story believers ready to 'believe' whatever took place at Shanksville, when there's very little script for them to follow??? I just don't understand their logic.



posted on Oct, 8 2009 @ 07:04 PM
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reply to post by GoodOlDave
 


I should have known better to respond to your dribble. I knew you couldn’t answer the question because the OP just PUNCH another hole in your fairytale so, instead you think you can just run everyone away with you ridiculous insults, scoffing at everyone who dose not believe in your fairytales.

I see you have never researched false flag operation. You sir have demonstrated that you believe that your government “is not capable” of committing a false flag operation in the United States. You sadly underestimate your government and the propaganda they spew from your media, you sir are asleep.



posted on Oct, 8 2009 @ 07:45 PM
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reply to post by Rewey
 


Nice try - posting deceptive picture to "prove" your conspiracy fantasy

Picture posted shows low speed, low angle impact

Not the high speed, high impact at Shanksville

Studying picture can say aircraft bellied in, fire from ruptured fuel tanks
burned out the central section leaving the tail undamaged

While may fool the idiot fringers have to do better than this....



posted on Oct, 8 2009 @ 08:08 PM
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Where is the plane?

Can someone find a picture of a plane crash where all the pieces disappeared?



posted on Oct, 8 2009 @ 09:52 PM
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Originally posted by hooper
So basically, your version of the "official story" is what ever you see fit to include. So why not just call it "rewey's story" and be honest about it?


If you'd read the soil analysis, or other threads I've posted on, I clearly outline that the 'official story' to which I refer is made up of multiple posts by 'official story' supporters, which I find inaccurate, and set about trying to demonstrate as such using data available.

I believe that's what truth is all about - if you can demonstrate something I've done wrong in my analysis, I'll happily change it. I've already made huge amendments to the soil analysis based on a couple of things that OS supporters have pointed out to me. You see, I'm not trying to create some controversial, conspiratorial document - just trying to present an accurate record...


Originally posted by hooper
I mean, by you reasoning, if I post that the impact crater is five miles wide and two miles deep then that becomes "the official story", right?


Again, feel free to post that, but like I said to Joey Canoli - if you disagree with something I've posted in terms of figures or numbers, please feel free to provide your own values, and I'll work with those. More than happy to oblige...


Originally posted by hooper
I happen to note that when you quoted me you skipped the little part where I talked about soil compaction rates. Is this how you are compliling your official version?


I trim down every 'quote' I use to keep the threads short, and not to repost lengthy comments which just ends up dragging threads out over pages and pages. No conspiracy there... again this is AMPLY covered in my soil analysis.


Originally posted by hooper
I would love to see your soil analysis, however, I do not download things from unknown websites.


It's just a pdf file from my 4shared account - nothing to worry about. If you're actually interested, I can email it to you.

Rewey



posted on Oct, 8 2009 @ 09:55 PM
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Originally posted by thedman
reply to post by Rewey
 


Nice try - posting deceptive picture to "prove" your conspiracy fantasy


Dude! I said I was just stirring you - seriously! Just thought it was funny because of what you said, and I'd just found that photo earlier that morning... no blood, no foul...

Rew



posted on Oct, 8 2009 @ 10:04 PM
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Originally posted by Joey Canoli
You're missing the point, as usual with troofers.


I have to admit, this one always got me... Is it somehow supposed to appear MORE insulting if it's spelt wrong? Does it imply that I'M more stupid because YOU can't spell?

Seriously - are we back in high school or something???

I can just picture all the OS supporters sitting there, high-fiving and slapping themselves on the back... "OMFG - you called him a 'truther', but totally spelt it wrong! High five!"


Originally posted by Joey Canoli
You're following the twoof playbook to the letter...


If I can borrow the argument from your counterpart hooper - can you show me where this 'twoof playbook' is written down??? Hmmm? Where is this official, written-down 'twoof playbook' to which you refer? Can you email me a copy? You've clearly read it if you know it to the letter?

Is it written down?

Is it?

Seriously...

Rewey



posted on Oct, 8 2009 @ 10:12 PM
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reply to post by Rewey
 


Canoli acts like a child, and posts like a troll dude. Best just to put the punk on ignore.

You're old thread on soil analysis was brilliant, and I think it brought up a significant amount of really good points which are often overlooked. The fact that you took it upon yourself to go there and do your own work/tests/whatever is already above and beyond what most do here on ATS lol.

Keep up the good work man.



posted on Oct, 8 2009 @ 10:12 PM
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Originally posted by Joey Canoli
What do I see?

I see: yellow grass=dry grass=dry soil.

And the roots holding together some dry soil from that particular plant. So, it could either have been blown into the air and come down in the same area, or it could have simply slipped down the side of the nearly vertical side of the now loosened soil of the crater.


See! There you go! It wasn't that hard to post an actualy opinion that addresses the OP! Thanks for contributing that - I do actually appreciate it.

Now... I don't agree with you here that the sides of the impact crater clearly shown in the OP photo were anywhere NEAR vertical. I drew a red line showing vertical, and green ones demonstrating where I thought the slope was. This is, of course, MY opinion, and you're more than welcome to have your own.

But what are you using as a point of reference in the photo to make you believe that the sides of the crater are 'nearly vertical'? I was using the trees in the background, and the way people are standing as my reference...

Rewey



posted on Oct, 8 2009 @ 10:17 PM
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Originally posted by hooper
Also, this supposed deconstruction has still not established that the areas circled are even in the impact area.


Again - I believe it does. I feel that the photo shown, particularly in negative, allows the viewer to determine which objects are in front of others. I believe it shows the two I pointed out both inside the crater, and immediately adjacent to the burnt debris/rubble.

But again, if you want to demonstrate how I'm wrong, I'll happily hand this thread over to the OS supporters, and move on to Part Two...

Rewey



posted on Oct, 8 2009 @ 11:17 PM
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Originally posted by Rewey

Is it written down?



It sure is.

It's in every 9/11 thread on ATS, Loose Change Forums, Pffft, etc. You goofballs learn by reading.

And of course, you give the perfect example by editing out the part where I ask you to provide any info provided by the "os" as to the dimensions of the crater.

If it's not provided anywhere, then just state it and give a better analysis of the hole.

Let's see if you can do this, rather than giving estimates that give yourself zero traction to any logical, thinking person. perfect for trying to convince other idiots, but it'll never work to get that new investigation.

Here's a good starting point - the only way to give GOOD evidence about the size of the crater is to provide an overhead shot with another object of known dimensions in the same shot. And then do your comparison.

Anything else is bs....



posted on Oct, 8 2009 @ 11:21 PM
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Originally posted by Joey Canoli
And of course, you give the perfect example by editing out the part where I ask you to provide any info provided by the "os" as to the dimensions of the crater.

Joey, you're an official government story believer. What dimensions do you think the crater measure? Afterall, you believe that a jet crashed there, so please show us your official government evidence that states the size of the crater.

[edit on 8-10-2009 by tezzajw]



posted on Oct, 8 2009 @ 11:25 PM
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Originally posted by Rewey

But what are you using as a point of reference in the photo to make you believe that the sides of the crater are 'nearly vertical'?



The upper few inches of the crater in your closeup fit the bill. NOT the crater as a whole.

The grass might have been there, right on the edge, and slid down.

But it's also good to note that you've come to the realization that grass could have been flung upwards, and by chance, landed back in the same area. Especially since the outer ~25' of each wing didn't contain any fuel, and so there wouldn't have been any fuel deflagration right where the grass is. rather, the impact is from pure ke, like shooting a bullet into the ground.

But serious question - are you TRULY claiming that your smoking gun is a clump of grass?



posted on Oct, 8 2009 @ 11:27 PM
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Originally posted by tezzajw

so please show us your official government evidence that states the size of the crater.

[edit on 8-10-2009 by tezzajw]


Why don't you provide it.

Then refute it if you believe it's wrong.

And if you have no opinion..... when then I guess you're the lowest of the low...

A no-claimer......





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