Common sense, why the Bible makes no sense,and other religions

It may sem from this thread,and my previous threads that I attack christianity.I actually pick no other religion over christianity,but simply know it the best being a christian for 22 years.As i continue my research I will approach other religions, but for right now I'll stick to christianity

1. God made satan,Satan made have had his own free will, so for the time being will say God turned off his all knowing powers and didnt know satan/lucifer would turn own him

2.Once satan turned owned him,instead of casting straight to hell, he cast him to earth, to manipulate his loved ones.To create thousands of religions/denominations.So you are playing the religious [powerball] 1 out of thousands if not millions will make it to heaven , you better pick the right one or to HELL you go.(This is like if your dog turns on you locking him up in the room with your kids,by the way you go to prison for that these days.

3. All snakes loose there legs (if they ever had them becuase satan posseses one snake and tells eve to eat the forbidden fruit) (poor snakes)

4. All mankind is punished for Eve/Adams mistake (so the whole human population should be punished for every murder, we should all be on death row. )

5.What happened to the the people before christ,were they cursed staright to hell.

6. If someone is born in Iraq and all they ever know is (ALLAH)/(ISLAM) AND DO EVERYTHING they know to be right should they go to ETERNALL HELL.

7.And hell itself Internal torment and being set on fire for ever and ever does not equal LOVE.

8.I could be wrong but love is what it is, no matter what anyone does,Punishment,especially eternal fire will never promote love.Torture promotes hate .Love does not punish(My own opinion anyway)


So for an ending note I love you all muslims,christians,hindues,judaist, and all of the above ,we can all stand together or parish.

ETERNAL PUNISHMENT WILL NEVER EQUAL LOVE!!!!

[edit on 5-10-2009 by trey85]

reply to post by trey85


Common Sense... heh...

I prefer The Age of Reason in these matters though.

1. God made satan,Satan made have had his own free will, so for the time being will say God turned off his all knowing powers and didnt know satan/lucifer would turn own him


God isn't just gonna make people or angels who will be like robots. This is what happens with free will. In all the angels, all of them have to have a choice. God isn't gonna make the angels he created be forced to love and acknowlege God.

and btw, isn't that statement kind of irrelevant? Considering Satan only destroys himself, he can't harm any man or persuade them into doing anything without mans consent.





2.Once satan turned owned him,instead of casting straight to hell, he cast him to earth, to manipulate his loved ones.To create thousands of religions/denominations.So you are playing the religious [powerball] 1 out of thousands if not millions will make it to heaven , you better pick the right one or to HELL you go.(This is like if your dog turns on you locking him up in the room with your kids,by the way you go to prison for that these days.




No. like I keep saying in other threads. We don't know if people in other faiths convert mentally before their death to Christ. God allowed Satan to tempt mandkind in the garden to prove their obedience, they failed, yet, man created other religions not Satan.

Satan can only plant a seed, he cannot make people who have known the truth create something they don't want to in the first place.

Take me for instance. listen closely OP. real close.

I grew up ruthless. Non religious. I am 28. I ddn't know who Christ was literally until I was 20.

So if he can do that to me, why not everybody esle? Do you not think that a true sincere soul he will not lead to himself? do we know what's in man heart or does God?

he is the most just judge ever since he put that justice in us. So if you a little human trey85 have that justice, how much more God who put it in you?

God knows what he's doing so trust in him.

And I used to beleieve I was a fricken vampire at one time before I knew Christ. i literally had an idol mind, pagan mind.

so if he can do it to a scumbag like me, why not other good people?

trust.





3. All snakes loose there legs (if they ever had them becuase satan posseses one snake and tells eve to eat the forbidden fruit) (poor snakes)



what? this makes no sense. Snakes were created that way. if not than you get that from evolution which means it's completely irrelevant to scripture.




4. All mankind is punished for Eve/Adams mistake (so the whole human population should be punished for every murder, we should all be on death row. )


No. But it's not a condemnation like murder. It's completely different. people on death row are guilty of murder and if we were punished like the we would be in jail, were as the human race because of the first parents sin lost the grace which is a (gift) not a right, and so the only way we get it back is through Christ. We are not in jail like punishment we just lost the gift of grace.

God cast them out of paradise which was on earth because of those two. And paradise became heaven, whereas earth became the hell we now know.



5.What happened to the the people before christ,were they cursed staright to hell.


No they went to limbo, sort of like a place where they waited which isn't heaven until Christ died on the cross.

Only real evil people went to hell. Graceless souls.



6. If someone is born in Iraq and all they ever know is (ALLAH)/(ISLAM) AND DO EVERYTHING they know to be right should they go to ETERNALL HELL.




read my response to number 2. Again if he can do it to me, he can do it to everybody. Once you're in a religion you are not locked. if the soul is forced I believe Christ knows it's not their fault, and many christians have fallen away from their faith.

being born into something doesn't mean they can't search... again the understanding is very little..




7.And hell itself Internal torment and being set on fire for ever and ever does not equal LOVE



That's because you don't know the evil of peoples souls. Have you ever met someone SOOO evil that you wanted them locked away or seen justice done to them as much as they poured out on earth?

well hell is not literally a fire we know on earth. It's an inwardly fire of evil and lack of grace. it's pure hatred.

Real love seperates evil from good. You want God to allow evil people in heaven to distrupt society? no. God is not uncle Tom. it's just like an eternal jail cell.

for evil people.

The saints said that the souls in hell have chosen it, this is something God will show you after death, why each soul is in hell, and that the rebellion is eternal, they have no love.

their state of souls so evil, fit their punishment. It's an unquenchable fire inside of them of hatred.

Some evil souls on earth, s*** look at the news everyday, go walk down a dark alley in the inner city, some soul on earth already reached a point of such evil, there is no going back.

it's when a soul reaches the point where they just give up and say, I'm evil....I don't want love anymore.



8.I could be wrong but love is what it is, no matter what anyone does,Punishment,especially eternal fire will never promote love.Torture promotes hate .Love does not punish(My own opinion anyway)




No love does punish. the torture is the choice of the individual. Some people on earth tortures themselves with addiction and violence, so some want the torture.

God has to punish wickedness. and that love you have op God put it in you/ If you have it yet God doesn't than that means God makes humans better than him which is impossible..


Love sometimes requires justice.


the last part of the Op is awesome!

we love you too!

peace.

ETERNAL PUNISHMENT WILL NEVER EQUAL LOVE!!!!




Neither will eternal NON JUSTICE!!!

Justice has to be done. If a man choses rebelion on earth, he will chose it after death.

If the jails adopted that statement of yours, than the world wouldn't last long.

punishment is a harsh word, think of it like eternal lockdown... the punishement is their own doing, it's their state of soul... their hatred.

it's hard to explain.

peace OP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

reply to post by trey85


I agree. Reading the Bible literally makes no sense at all. But don't throw the baby out with the bath water. ( I know it's a horrible analogy but it's all I could think of right now)

I can't address each item in your list but let me address the snake and Satan thing. In almost every other ancient religion in the world the snake or the dragon is the symbol of wisdom. It's only Christianity that associates this lowly creature with the evil and downfall of mankind. I honestly wouldn't know why exactly, but I'd put down my next paycheque that it had something to do with controlling the masses somehow.

The snake swallowing it's own tail was a symbol of eternity, the ying and the yang and the positive and the negative of all energy in universe. The sine wave of mathematics is another symbol of this. Understanding this symbol is the knowledge of the tree of good and evil, it can only read symbolically in order to understand it.

Now to most orthodox believers this type of rational is probably one of those examples of the devil being very clever and crafty it's presentation, but it's still the devil. This is, in my humble opinion, how well the church has done in controlling the masses with fear.

Anyways, that's my two cents. I have to go now.

Cheers.


[edit on 5-10-2009 by Neo__]

reply to post by trey85


so what then, do you want me to explain it all to you so it makes sense, so you have to become the slave of it again ? Becaause now it makes sense, and you have no excuse ?

Is that what you want ?

Why dont you try to figure it out for yourself instead ?

Your first mistake is that you take it lityerally. Jesus almost never spoke literally but in metaphors and parables.


Here is a first short example:

"Behold, I have given you authority to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy, and nothing will injure you. Luke 10:19

They are not literal serpents and scorpions. They are metaphors:

"Behold, I send you out as sheep in the midst of wolves; so be shrewd as serpents and innocent as doves. Matthew 10:16

Here is one where he tells you at least four times that his flesh is the bread of life, and one sentence later he explains that its not really the flesh, but the teaching that counts.

John 6:

33For the bread of God is he who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.”
34“Sir,” they said, “from now on give us this bread.”
35Then Jesus declared, “I am the bread of life. He who comes to me will never go hungry, and he who believes in me will never be thirsty.

Easy enough right ?

But if you like to interpret things literally, here comes trouble:

41At this the Jews began to grumble about him because he said, “I am the bread that came down from heaven.”
.....
48I am the bread of life.
49Your forefathers ate the manna in the desert, yet they died.
50But here is the bread that comes down from heaven, which a man may eat and not die.
51I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever. This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.”

The trouble of the literal interpretation will be getting even worse in a sec:

52Then the Jews began to argue sharply among themselves, “How can this man give us his flesh to eat?”
53Jesus said to them, “I tell you the truth, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you.
54Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.
55For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink.
56Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in him.
57Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so the one who feeds on me will live because of me.
58This is the bread that came down from heaven. Your forefathers ate manna and died, but he who feeds on this bread will live forever.”

And now finally the explanation that all of this is NOT supposed to be taken literally, it is a methaphor for his teaching.

60On hearing it, many of his disciples said, “This is a hard teaching. Who can accept it?”
61Aware that his disciples were grumbling about this, Jesus said to them, “Does this offend you?
62What if you see the Son of Man ascend to where he was before!
63 The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and they are life.

As you can see, the temptation to interpret it literally is great, but it is not meant to be interpreted that way !

Just to make a quick point. You can't disprove God nor can you prove God. What you said does not prove that God doesn't speak there the bible. God is alive and he does talk throught the bible. And you will never b e able to disprove this.

Originally posted by trey85

ETERNAL PUNISHMENT WILL NEVER EQUAL LOVE!!!!

[edit on 5-10-2009 by trey85]

For a human who posses knowledge on a relatively small scale compare to a God who's power stretches beyond atomic and even quantum level...

It will only be relatively correct and applicable for humans :/

Does the position God mean anything nowadays?

Exactly Gambit... and because they don't understand his mind they judge God, get puffed up, and rebel...

It's all pride.

which the prophets said would be the greatest sins of the end times.

God reads hearts. men don't. Yet a man says, why is THIS one in hell..? with puffed upm mind, when God who knows the heart of THAT one unlike the human, knows the truth about them unlike us.

that's why God loved the childlike. They always knew God could do no wrong. They knew he was the only just one and the creator of our souls.

Ok. There's so much here let me catch my breath. I don't think Satan actually existed in the ancient hebrew religions. I think he came later when people had a problem with Having one being that was the cause of both good and evil.

Another interesting thing to ponder is, why are there two creation stories in Genesis? They are different if you read the first 2 chapters. Another awesome thing about Genesis is that satan is not actually mentioned. Just the serpent. Why do we assume it was satan? The cimerians next door, had the exact same creation story but the serpent was the creator. Could it perhaps be that serpent in Genesis to discredit that religion and get more people following the hebrew faiths? I'll have to take this in strides. I'm getting winded.