Does The U.S. Even Care About Its Soldiers?, page 1

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ATS Members have flagged this thread 3 times

Topic started on 2-10-2009 @ 03:36 AM by Emerald The Paradigm

I came across this CNN article and I thought it was pretty interesting to share:

www.cnn.com...

One in three homeless adults has served in the military, and more than 150,000 veterans nationwide are homeless on any given night, according to the Veterans Administration.

In 2005 there were around 744,000 homeless people in America: (survey was done in 2007)

www.msnbc.msn.com...

It is estimated now that there are over 3.6 million homeless people in the United States. This is about close to 1% of the population.

The large increase is due to mainly the decline in the economy, which is a DIRECT correlation to the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

"Our society must make it right and possible for old people not to fear the young or be deserted by them, for the test of a civilization is the way that it cares for its helpless members."
~ Pearl S. Buck

It's just interesting to see data such as the CNN one because it just goes to show how much America DOES NOT care about its soldiers, let alone poor people, and the homeless in general.

The East is brainwashed by Religious doctrines; The West is brainwashed by Money and Materialism.

Both are equally pathetic.

There's no reason to continue unjust and illegal wars. ALL wars now a days are fought for Money. Soldiers are not fighting for freedom or democracy. They are fighting for companies such as Wal-Mart, Exxon Mobile, McDonalds, etc. You may think that you are fighting "insurgents", but you are not. At the end of the day, people die and companies make a profit.

It's all business.

If you support the troops, then bring them home.

reply posted on 2-10-2009 @ 04:10 AM by midnightbrigade

Absolutely the government cares about them. So much so that if a soldier is on leave and breaks a leg riding an ATV, they can be court martialed for destroying government property.

Once the soldier has fulfilled his role, the government only cares enough to put a good face forward.

reply posted on 2-10-2009 @ 03:42 PM by Truth_Seeker_82

This country is a malfunctioning Capitalist pyramid scheme. Due to massive theft and mismanagement, we actually have local restaurants 'sponsoring the clean-up' of certain portions of our highways.

This is sick. And everyone just sits around like rape victims, happy just to be alive and breathing but with no balls to throw eggs at government buildings.

reply posted on 7-10-2009 @ 12:25 AM by riff_raff

Truth_Seeker_82,

I'm guessing your real name is Michael Moore, right? A "malfunctioning Capitalist pyramid scheme"? If this is true, then why are so many people from socialist utopias like Mexico, Cuba, or China willing to risk their lives and everything they own just to sneak into the US?

As for members of the US military, they are all volunteers, and have been so for the past 30 years. The only problem they face is that they are presently commanded by a CINC and Congressional leadership that despises them and everything they stand for.

As for "sitting around like rape victims", I just might agree with you. The federal and state governments are screwing me for almost 50% of every dollar I earn. Without so much as even a kiss on the back of the neck.

reply posted on 7-10-2009 @ 12:30 AM by jd140

reply to post by midnightbrigade

I have never heard of this, do you have a link?

I have heard of soldiers getting an article 15 because they had gotten a sunburn so bad that they couldn't perform their duties. But never because they broke a leg riding an ATV.

reply posted on 7-10-2009 @ 12:33 AM by stevegmu

reply to post by Emerald The Paradigm

You are just way off here. Walmart and McDonalds had absolutely nothing to do with the wars. They weren't illegal wars, either. Show me a UN resolution saying they are. The wars in Iraq and Afghanistan had nothing to do with the economic downturn. If anything, they got us out of the 2001 recession.
Telling the troops they are pawns for corporations is certainly no way to support them, either.

reply posted on 7-10-2009 @ 12:35 AM by stevegmu

reply to post by Truth_Seeker_82

What? Adopt-a-spot has been around for decades. It has nothing to do with the recession.

reply posted on 7-10-2009 @ 12:39 AM by spellbound

The sad truth is that rulers only care about the 'power' of their countries - they do not care about the people who bravely fight on behalf of their countries.

It is easy to be a general well behind the battle lines. It is not easy to be an engaging solider.

It is disgraceful that countries do not look after their war heroes - and I call everyone who has been on the frontline a war hero.

reply posted on 7-10-2009 @ 07:13 AM by Emerald The Paradigm

reply to post by stevegmu

I don't support people getting slaughtered for no reason.

If you support the troops, then bring them home.

reply posted on 7-10-2009 @ 07:24 AM by Zosynspiracy

There are no heros in a war. Anyone who thinks such a thing is a moron who understands nothing of war and has never been in combat. There is no glory in war, there is no honor in war. One day if humanity manages to keep itself alive will look back on its existence and shake their head for the way they've lived on planet Earth. Words can't even describe how evil humanity is. But people always love to point out how great humanity is. Well so what are we left with? A species that simply exists, where good cancels out the bad? Haha what a joke! Just like war.

reply posted on 7-10-2009 @ 03:27 PM by projectvxn

Originally posted by stevegmu
reply to post by Emerald The Paradigm

You are just way off here. Walmart and McDonalds had absolutely nothing to do with the wars. They weren't illegal wars, either. Show me a UN resolution saying they are. The wars in Iraq and Afghanistan had nothing to do with the economic downturn. If anything, they got us out of the 2001 recession.
Telling the troops they are pawns for corporations is certainly no way to support them, either.

UN? I can point you in the direction of the Constitution. It says you can't go to war without a formal declaration. Neither Iraq or Afghanistan are declared wars. Albeit we weren't supposed to be in Afghanistan this long, and at least on the surface we are supposed to be there. Iraq is patently illegal under UN charter sections 43-49. Defined as a war of aggression. Even Kofi Annan UN Sec. General at the time of the initial invvasion said it was a violation of the charter.

[edit on 7-10-2009 by projectvxn]

reply posted on 7-10-2009 @ 04:08 PM by LadySkadi

First of all, I would disagree that homeless Veterans are being ignored and that there is not help available or that multiple agencies are not continuously working to solve this issue [I agree, it is an issue] as is homelessness of the general public. So, rather than ranting, why not start with current data supporting this theory of non-involvement by government or citizen groups? Ranting for the sake of ranting isn't a logical call to action IMHO...

Here's the flip side to this topic-

10/6/2009 - VA

The VA works with a variety of federal agencies and veterans organizations not only to mitigate and eliminate homelessness but toward a goal of preventing its occurrence in the first place. The VA’s goal is to have a “no wrong door" phenomena, meaning veterans who seek assistance should find it either in VA internal programs, from community partners or through contract services.

In terms of dollars and number of veterans served, the VA has the largest integrated network of homeless assistance programs in the nation. In fiscal year (FY) 2009, the VA expected to spend $2.8 billion to provide health care and specialized homeless programs, with an anticipated $400 million increase in the budget for FY 2010. VA social workers and clinicians work with community- and faith-based partners to conduct extensive outreach programs, clinical assessments, medical treatments, alcohol and drug abuse counseling, and employment assistance.

Source

9/25/2009 - HUD

HUD published the FY 2009 Continuum of Care (CoC) Notice of Funding Availability (NOFA) for Homeless Assistance Grants. The FY 2009 CoC NOFA announces approximately $1.43 billion in funding available for homeless assistance grants across the country. Applications are due November 9.

Full publication text link included within the source

Source

8/28/2009 - VA Conference Nov 3-5

"We are going to take (the) 131,000 homeless Veterans off the streets over the next five years . . . To do this well, we will have to attack the entire downward spiral that ends in homelessness – we must offer education, jobs, treat depression, fight substance abuse and offer safe housing. We have to do it all – no missed opportunities in going from 131,000 to zero and keeping it there . . ." – VA Secretary Shinseki's remarks to VFW

Source
_________________________________________________________________

National Coalition for Homeless Veterans

Ed: fix a link

[edit on 7-10-2009 by LadySkadi]

reply posted on 7-10-2009 @ 04:48 PM by poedxsoldiervet

reply to post by Emerald The Paradigm

This is yet the second thread you havewrote with heavy anti-American feelings... ENough already if you dont like this country feel free to take the boat back to your homeland, and on the way picj up the rest of your liberal friends.

Here is a little history lesson for, The economy was good untill the greedy bastards at OPEC, raised the oil threw the roof, 4.00 a gallon and some parts 5, remeber that. Now people had to decided to a go to work or pay the moragte (which they were barley able to afford. Not to mention the prices for food,and water, and home heating went up. This was the direct result of greed from OPEC.

Now while the wars in Iraq and afganistan were draining American dollars and the goverment diddnt have the balls to actually fight it has nothing to do with the current depression.

The depression started back when oil went through the roof and people coulndt pay on already deflated homes. Thank the Congress for that one.

Now I work for the VA there our dozens of programs for homeless vets everywhere, all a vet must to is go to a va hosiptal and check himself in and they will direct him to where he needs to go providing him with food and shelter-) check your facts.

ALso I fought in both wars iraq and afgan.... You want to support the troops let the generals run the war the way it needs to be total war.

reply posted on 7-10-2009 @ 04:57 PM by Jenna

The first article you link to is really a rather inspirational one that not only shows the plight of some of our veterans but also shows that given just the slightest bit of help and they can pull themselves back up and get their lives back on track.

As of 2008, Stand Down House reported that 93 percent of its eligible residents found work and 84 percent of graduates went on to live independently.

For the record, Congress approved Iraq thus by our laws it's not illegal.

Senate approves Iraq war resolution
WASHINGTON (CNN) -- In a major victory for the White House, the Senate early Friday voted 77-23 to authorize President Bush to attack Iraq if Saddam Hussein refuses to give up weapons of mass destruction as required by U.N. resolutions.

Hours earlier, the House approved an identical resolution, 296-133.

They also passed a "use of force" resolution in 2001:

Congress approves resolution authorizing force
WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Congress overwhelmingly passed a resolution Friday authorizing President Bush to use force against those responsible for Tuesday's terrorist attacks, the same day it unanimously approved a $40 billion emergency spending package.

This also made it legal. Now people can rant and rave all they want about the wars being illegal but the fact of the matter is that Congress authorized them both. Whether the intel they went by was true or not is an entirely different matter, but there is no clause as far as I know that makes resolutions null and void if the intel later is shown false. Thus they are still legal whether people agree with them or not.

Back to the actual topic, I find it interesting that an article that was written to highlight what one group is doing to help homeless veterans get back on their feet was used instead to launch into a rant about veterans not being taken care of in favor of going after the almighty dollar. In case anyone has failed to notice we aren't making money off the wars, and as LadySkadi pointed out there are agencies trying to provide help to the homeless vets.

As far as oil imports go, I can't for the life of me figure out why people are so convinced we're in Iraq for oil when we imported 6 times as much crude oil and almost 9 times as much petroleum from Canada as we did from Iraq in July. Source. You would think that after being there for 8 years if we were just there for oil we'd be importing much more from them than we are from Canada.

And seriously? The troops are over there fighting for Wal-Mart and McDonald's? You must be joking. You want to support the troops? Quit demeaning the ones who've lost their lives over there by making baseless nonsensical claims about what they lost their lives for. Quit demeaning the ones who made it back alive or are still there by making baseless nonsensical claims about what they fought for or are currently fighting for. I can guarantee you that if you actually asked a soldier why they were there not one of them would say for McDonald's or Wal-Mart.

reply posted on 7-10-2009 @ 05:18 PM by jerico65

Originally posted by midnightbrigade
Absolutely the government cares about them. So much so that if a soldier is on leave and breaks a leg riding an ATV, they can be court martialed for destroying government property.

You can only have some sort of punishment if it was found out you were negligent. I've been on leave, busted myself up, and the only thing that happened was the 1st Sgt laughed at me (long story).

reply posted on 7-10-2009 @ 05:33 PM by dooper

reply to post by Zosynspiracy

There are no hero's in war?

Is that what you said?

I'll go you one better: It's hard to find combat troops who AREN'T heroes.

A hero is one who's dropped his shield to protect his brother.

Achilles, Ajax, Ulysses, Perseus, Theseus? I knew these heroes. Of course they went by other names, Smith, Woods, Ryder, Wagers, and Jones.

Heroism in war is as common place as stars in the sky.

They only do those extraordinary things - for each other.

Because where the rubber meets the road - each other is all they have.

reply posted on 7-10-2009 @ 06:18 PM by nenothtu

Originally posted by Zosynspiracy
There are no heros in a war. Anyone who thinks such a thing is a moron who understands nothing of war and has never been in combat. There is no glory in war, there is no honor in war. One day if humanity manages to keep itself alive will look back on its existence and shake their head for the way they've lived on planet Earth. Words can't even describe how evil humanity is. But people always love to point out how great humanity is. Well so what are we left with? A species that simply exists, where good cancels out the bad? Haha what a joke! Just like war.

I'd have to agree that there isn't any glory in war. Glory, as a concept for going to war, is a phantom of the uninitiated, and vaporizes on the battlefileld. One doesn't go to war for glory, one goes to stand between evil men, and his own people. Nothing more, nothing less. It's not glorious, it's just the responsibility of a warrior. He stands in the breach to defend his own. This is the entire purpose of a warrior.

But - no heroes? no honor? Any moron who believes THAT has never been in combat, or else those brothers who stood at his side weren't worth a damn. Or perhaps he himself may be at fault, failing to give recognition where it is due. In that case, HE has let his brothers down, not the other way 'round.

I've known heroes. Most of them are dead now, as happens to folks who behave in suchlike selfless manner, for the base purpose of defending their own. Just because they're dead now, it doesn't diminish their heroic actions. They may have checked out of life, but they haven't checked out of a pretty exclusive club. They died so that others could live. And malign their memory.

If there's no honor present on your battlefield at all, you're fighting the wrong fight, alongside the wrong people, in the wrong way.

To fight without honor dishonors the very people you defend, and those who fight with you. Understandably, that's an alien concept to those who have never experienced it.

reply posted on 7-10-2009 @ 07:18 PM by stevegmu

reply to post by projectvxn

Congress overwhelmingly authorized President Bush to use force to remove S. Hussein. The Constitution doesn't specify what a formal declaration of war is. The President alone can not declare war, so Congress passed HJ Res 114.

link

I don't care what K. Anan said- has he been indicted yet? Which UN resolution was it that declared the removal of S. Hussein illegal?

reply posted on 7-10-2009 @ 07:24 PM by nwodeath

of course not!

How could you possibly be coming from this naive of a viewpoint?
No offense intended.

Death is an industry for the rich my friend. Killing soldiers is part of the plan. It always has been. The elite pray off the stupidity of the masses and the soldiers are by far, known among all, to be the stupidest of all. They are the cannon fodder, the disposable machinery, the disposable hero.

reply posted on 7-10-2009 @ 07:50 PM by Zosynspiracy

reply to post by nenothtu

Blah blah blah! You and dooper are ex military so of course you're going to hold the opinions you hold of war. Doesn't change the fact that in the GRAND SCHEME of life and the universe there are no heros in war. You can rationalize and justify it all you want. If there is a god up there watching over human beings on planet Earth he's listening to guys like you shaking his head and thinking to himself...................they just don't get "IT"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Humanity is one big karmic experience that's all.

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