Do You have a Credit Card? A Loan? A Mortgage? Then you are equally at fault for the Economy.

The banking institutions committed fraud against the American people when they not only blackmailed us into giving them trillions under threat of marshal law, but they also lied about what they were going to do with the money. Not one dime of the debt from the mortgage fiasco was covered - not a dime!

So you expect the American people to under threat of violence pay the banks trillions for nothing and then turn around and pay not only our debt to the banks but with ungodly interest on top of that?

I don't think so...

Let's add to that the fact they are knowingly and purposefully destroying the economy by cutting off the loans available to business, which is directly responsible for the loss of hundreds of thousands of jobs across the country.

Again, I don't think so...

reply to post by Sundancer

Let's add to that the fact they are knowingly and purposefully destroying the economy by cutting off the loans available to business, which is directly responsible for the loss of hundreds of thousands of jobs across the country

Not to mention THEY ARE STILL GETTING INVOLVED IN RISKY MORTGAGE LOANS. They are still doing the same damn # that got us in this mess in the first place......which was ENABLED by the Federal Reserve by setting interest rates too low.

It's all a fiasco and I'm not going to let the average person get hammered for it. It's ridiculous. People do what they have to do to get by. A billionare DOES NOT. They do what they do to make more money despite anyone it is hurting.

When are the people of this country going to start railing for WE THE PEOPLE???? not WE THE CORPORATIONS and BANKS?

I'm tired of excuses and it's about time most everyone else should be too!

reply to post by D.E.M.


I don't feel bad didn't we the tax payer have poured billions of dollars to keep the greedy banks afloat?

How about the trillions already wasted on keeping the markets running.

I think we all tax payers have pay back with our sweat and labor what we owned.

What are we getting back, outrageous profits from banks on the demise of the hard working Americans and more bail out to come.

Actually we tax payer are the banking system milking cows.

Those poor CEOs the need their bonuses and expensive mansions in Richistan America where the regular joe can only dream about.

Originally posted by David9176
reply to post by Sundancer

 

I'm tired of excuses and it's about time most everyone else should be too!

You hit the nail on the head regarding the whole point of the thread. When ARE people going to stop making excuses for their behavior? I am not siding with the banks against the people, I am simply asking that people stop lying to themselves and accept that they are not innocent parties in this fiasco.

When are people going to stop making excuses and accept that they are just as guilty as the government, the banks, and the corporations? It takes two to tango.


[edit on 1-10-2009 by D.E.M.]

reply to post by D.E.M.


And it takes a government to take away from the tax payer to protect the wealth of the wealthy elite that are running the nation to the ground.

Sorry but yes we mabe all guilty but I am sure our own government and the banking system are more guilty than us.

And guess what, while our nation work force lies unemployed and destitute our tax payer are used to preserve the wealth of the few.

I don't think that is fair at all.

No, no, and no!

I'm entirely debt free





To say that debters are equally at fault is just plain incorrect. Why were these "creative business practices" started in the first place? Didn't Clinton okay the sub-prime loan deal in the first place? Or was it Bush? Whoever did that, is much more at fault than the average debtor. His actions directly effected the economy and as a result, millions of Americans.

Same goes to the "brilliant" #'ards who used the exact same techniques which lead to the great depression. Buying on the margin is just plain wrong.

I'm still not so sure I buy into an agenda behind all the greed. It seems shortsightedness and greed are factors enough to explain the current economic situation. Regardless of the big picture, the few who implemented these insane practices are near infinitely more responsible than ordinary citizens. Their actions impact everyone else.

Blame can surely go around. We (most Americans) were dumb enough to buy into the greed and shortsightedness, however, without the incentive (social pressures via advertising, etc..) and ability (techniques available) much of this current situation would have been adverted if not entirely.

Yes, people are out of work and have no money.However, they have no money because a vast, vast majority of them have taken on credit over the past 10 years that they had absolutely no intention of paying back. The economic situation is simply providing a convenient excuse for them to give the banks the middle finger under the pretense of hardship.

This (the bold part) is a VERY large assumption and I would strongly disagree with this statement. This very well may be your opinion but there is no proof that the majority of people who took out loans never had the intention of paying them back.

I point out that this view may be your opinion as the statement comes off as if you are stating a generally accepted fact.

From my view, I think people do accept accountability for their problems. I would say the news reports we see of people saying "I did nothing wrong" only to find out the person had a 1M mortgage on a 30K salary are the extreme examples that the current situation exposed.

There comes a time; however, where the "everyday people" simply need to say I can't do it any more. I lost my job, my savings is gone, I've cut back as far as I can... and as a result just stop paying. I would say they are not trying to stick it to the man, they simply have no options.









[edit on 2-10-2009 by tk1967]

reply to post by D.E.M.


I just wanted to repeat that I did NOT take out thousands and thousands in loans or anything even remotely like that, so please refrain from making said generalized statement over and over, okay? EVERY one person in this country didn't default on mega-loans, so it's a fallacious statement.

What you don't understand is that it is NOT americans fault that we are in debt.

MONEY ... IS ... DEBT

Google Video Link

A lot of people (not me, all I have is a college loan, a DEBIT card, and a house payment) signed up for credit cards back in college with a high interest rate with those sharks that haunt campuses across America.

I really think young people should be weened into being financially independent. Usually, Young twenty somethings aren't mature enough to be given a shiny credit card.
I knew I wasn't!

Kids are becoming 18 and shipped out of the homes without basic financial knowledge. One of the reasons for that is while they were growing up financial issues in the home were 'adult matters' and now that the kids become 18, they're automatically expected to know these things. The creditors know they don't know, and thus are targeted for credit cards when they get to college.

It's a combination of people feeling entitled to "stuff," and our government apparently inabilty to control younger people's ability to get CCs. Oh wait.. if they did that, they would be evil, like anything else they try to regulate. They can't win. It's funny how "the people" demand being in control, citing the government can't control its own spending, yet the people can't either.

I have some CC debt. The interest has hiked on them. I will pay them off. I received a contract when I got them, and this was covered in detail. I didn't read all the fine print, but I should have. So should all of you, who are complaining about the high interest rates. I do feel it's almost like organzied crime, to be able to raise your interest rate 20% overnight, but you still signed a contract, and it's still legally binding.

People buy crap they can't afford all the time. Everyone needs an HD TV, a nice car, gadets, toys, etc... and need to eat out all the time (which also leads to obesity). People have a knack of picking the things that are worst for themselves. And now people complain and give CC companies the middle finger, refusing to pay for goods they did receive. And they feel justified in doing so? I don't get it.

WEDDINGS! This is another issue with younger people. And no offense to the ladies, but usually it's their doing (most guys would be happy getting hitched at the bowling ally, they couldn't care less). But new couples accrue massive wedding bills coupled with huge honeymoon bills right out of the gate. They could go into their new marraige owning 20k easily. Money is the biggest issue of contention within couples. And they wonder why the divorce rate is so high.

Sears was the most recent company to screw me over. And you know what... I'll pay them, as I did get the goods. But I'll never buy a damn things from them again (and I told them so). But not paying the debt makes you as bad as those you accuse of being criminals.

I am mixed on your post...it was way to general and one sided. Not balanced at all.

There are guilty parties on both sides. This has been intentionally perpetrated on the masses by banks (sending out credit cards to everyone) and the government.

Remember Bush telling everyone to go out and spend money when we were going into recession?

Do you understand why we have daylight savings time and it was recently extended? More daylight hours to spend money.

Now most people and especially poor and uneducated really have no understanding of what they are getting into...and often times how they are duped. Not to mention the many things already mentioned that unexpectedly leave one unable to pay bills.

It is the rare person who buys a home that doesn't have to get a loan.

I have just bought a home, in my 60's, and took out a loan to do so. Fortunately, I have the cash to pay it off but that money is making more that the interest so I will not for the moment. Ditto for a used car. No credit card debt but bills and taxes and insurance eat my lunch.

A friend filed bankruptcy a few years ago and never had to pay anything back except the IRS and they lowered his 30K to 5500. And yes, he was not responsible in his spending...just greedy.

There are always exceptions.

Originally posted by fraterormus
No one forced them to have a 4,500 sq. house, 3 BMWs, an In-ground Swimming Pool, and the latest fashions from London and Paris every season.

I believe they were forced. Through brainwashing.......very effective advertising.

However, most of the people I know in debt don't have 3 BMW's. They are just trying to survive.

Wow - it must be wonderful to live in a world which is so black and white!
Here in the UK there is a culture of buying your own house. Rents have been comparatively high so traditionally it has been seen as the sensible option, rather than the greedy option. So here I am with a mortgage.
But I don't have a loan and I don't use a credit card.
Nevertheless it seem as if, by the OPs reckoning, I am some sort of pariah?

TOPIC/TITLE:


"Do You have a Credit Card? A Loan? A Mortgage? Then you are equally at fault for the Economy."


It is actually the abuse or misuse of those financial instruments that would give myself, or any other person, some degree of 'fault'

99% of the blame & fault lies with corporate-fascist greed,
the capitalist-gone-awry system of banks, counterfiet bonds, toxic-assets,
outsourcing to foreign lands, the dismanteling of onshore Industry
that has caused the ongoing collapse of the system in american business & economy, and our lifestyles


thank-you

[edit on 2-10-2009 by St Udio]

It doesn't matter if you own everything you have. Your house and property is still going to be taxed. I know.

I own everything i have property, house and car. I have no mortgage or Lon's of any kind. But still i have to pay a tax on everything i own. So if i loos my job and cant pay my taxes i will still have my house, property and car taken away by the banks within a year.

The only real benefit i have because i have a job is that i dont have to pay any interest to the banks at this time. Well that's not true either. I have to pay a tax on the money i have saved up in the Bank lol. I also get charges a small fee every time i use my Visa card.

The only way to not being taxed is to not own anything. In reality if you dont have a job and dont have anything you are actually a free man.

reply to post by spy66


I agree with you. I am totally debt free as well but boy oh boy am I in deep chit if I don't pay my taxes! They will GLADLY take all I do "own" in a heartbeat.

I see it as a double edged sword: on a personal level,I have friends who built those monstrous 500K + homes 5 years ago KNOWING full well they would never be able to pay them off and not caring because "everyone does it..." No,we don't but that was the prevailing attitude for a long time.
Kids don't play in the dirt with a cool beat-up Tonka truck anymore,even the young ones have very expensive tech-toys and the latest and greatest clothes from Baby Gap.
It's a couple of generations worth of "I deserve it and I want it NOW" attitudes and those of us that were parents simply being able and willing to give it to them...NOW WHAT??? Live in a simple house and save money?
I have literally been laughed at for just that.

My hairdresser's 5 sister in laws,none of whom work are all on a rotating pregnant by different men schedule it seems for more assistance and government checks ALL HAVE credit cards and haven't EVER worked outside the home!!! WTF???

So...while I totally agree that it's the fault of previous administrations,banks,big-boys on Wall St. and all the rest of the cast of criminals,it must be said that MANY of us happiply drank the Kool Aid and bought into the program.
Values were hyper-inflated as were expectations and abilities to earn at such a demanding level.

Many I know have lived VERY well for a long time off that "equity line of credit" in these big ass houses with big ass debt and what do you want to bet that most who are in serious creit debt for whatever reason are never going to have to repay a cent because of the "cirumstances to come..."

Makes those of us who have TRIED to play by the rules sick.

I dont have a credit card, never wanted one. i refuse to pay 14% interest on a bag of cheese doddles...the del was $1.49 not $200. that to me, is ripping off the customer. The problem is all...yuo cannot get a laon, buy a house, or anew car, unless you have a credit card. Even buying things online! they almsot all want a credit card. no credit card=no deal sale. Corporate america and big business have made it so you MUST have one. its not even real money for christ sakes! its numbers ona computer screen!

reply to post by D.E.M.


This was caused by the laws Bush put into place to benefit his friends and by the inside traders, short sellers and other nefarious bastards who deliberately set the market up to crash. Furhtermore banks, credit card agencies and loan agencies all around that time made terrible choices and did business with people who never should have been approved for it in the first place. I understand you like people to take personal responsibility, and that's all well and good, but this was caused deliberately by villains, and for you to blame the public for the actions of a very few select rich people is innappropriate and incorrect.