Do You have a Credit Card? A Loan? A Mortgage? Then you are equally at fault for the Economy.

Man o man, I just LOVE the hypocrisy in this place some days. Heaven forbid that the corporations misplace a single red cent and get bailed out, oh no. The citizens on the other hand?
Mortgages: Hah, I'll just let them take the house.
Loans: Screw it, I'm not paying!
Credit cards: I know, I'll bounce this maxed out card onto that card and bounce that balance onto another!

Now, don't get me wrong, I'm all for sticking it to the man and getting the corporations, Banks, and government out of the picture. But seriously people, start taking a little bloody responsibility here for the problems the world is facing right now.

You don't want to pay off your credit card balance because the interest is too high? Oh, Poor Baby! I suppose the banks Forced you to go and max out 2 or even 3 cards! I suppose you just couldn't resist buying all the things with those cards! Of course, it's not your fault, don't pay it back!

20k in debt and just not going to pay it back? Why did you take the loan if you weren't going to pay if off? Isn't that...theft?

I want to paint a picture for you. I want to paint a conservative estimate of 100 million americans alone, each with 3 credit cards with an 8k maximum credit. Each of those cards is maxed, and the owners are merely shuffling the balance between the three and letting the interest grow. Do the math, that is 8,000,000,000 or 8 Billion in essentially stolen cash.

I'm not siding with the banks, i'm merely trying to point out the reeking hypocrisy that percolates throughout this society sometimes. What right do you have to take the money and not pay it back? The consumer credit bubble is just as big, if not massively larger than the mortgage bubble. When it pops because of all you fools who just up and decided that you would rather steal thousands than pay back your debts, you'll have only your own heads to blame.

Once again, not siding with the banks, simply trying to wake people up to the fact that they are hardly innocent in the slightest. The concept of a "Debtors Revolt" is as laughable as a Prison Riot, in fact its the same bloody thing. You did the crime (took out debt) and are now doing the time (Suffering interest and payments on the debt you willingly took on). You are just as guilty as the faceless corporate entities you decry.


[edit on 1-10-2009 by D.E.M.]

Right now people cannot find jobs. Without jobs you aren't likely to have much income. Without income you cannot pay bills.

I hear what you are saying, and to an extent I agree.

However, when it comes down to a Bank's Profit Margin or feeding my child, the Bank is going to come dead last. If it comes down to a Bank's Profit Margin or housing my child, then the Bank is going to come in dead last. If it comes down to a Bank's Profit Margin or clothing my child, then the Bank is going to come in dead last. After my child's basic needs are taken care of, then the Bank and I can talk business.

Although I do not have any debt of any kind, and have not for decades, there are many Americans that do, and if they are parents, then I could forgive them for shirking their fiscal responsibilities for the sake of their children.

For everyone else, you are right, it is theft.

However, Chapter 11 Bankruptcy laws for Corporations in the United States allow them to be forgiven of all debts, whereas Citizens do not have that right, even though the Banks are both Insured for a certain number of Bad Debts but count on a certain number of Bad Debts to write off as Expenses to lower their Net Profit on the books at the end of the year. That seems grossly unfair. Maybe every person in the United States should incorporate to receive the same privileges that Corporations get in the United States!

I think the rhetoric about Debtors Revolts are silly as well, and I think that the majority of people are still in denial about their own accountability that got them in Debt in the first place. Yes, the Corporations used predatory and deceptive practices to reel the stupid and gullible in, however, those people who chose to live a life of wanting more than they could afford have to own up to the choices they made. No one forced them to have a 4,500 sq. house, 3 BMWs, an In-ground Swimming Pool, and the latest fashions from London and Paris every season.

Those caught in Debt have to take Personal Accountability for their habits, otherwise, even if they are absolved their Debts they are only going to make the same mistakes again and again and again.

Waste not, want not...that's what my Grandmother used to always say.

reply to post by Jessicamsa


I'm not talking in the short term, this has been going on for a decade. When I was in school 2 years ago my senior math teacher was teaching the class how to pop credit balance across 4 cards so you could max them out while maintaining a minimum balance.

Yes, people are out of work and have no money. However, they have no money because a vast, vast majority of them have taken on credit over the past 10 years that they had absolutely no intention of paying back. The economic situation is simply providing a convenient excuse for them to give the banks the middle finger under the pretense of hardship.

It takes years to get to the level of credit insolvency seen in the general public today, it did not come about in the past 11 months.

reply to post by fraterormus


I completely agree with all of your points Fraterormus. The fact that corporations can declare chapter 11 and the citizen cannot is wrong, yes. And if you have children to take care of then you should definitely think of them before your debts no question. I just want people to buck up and, as you said, admit their personal accountability in the problem. I'm not entirely a cold hearted SOB, I just can't stand people who won't admit they are complicit, and we've had 2 threads in the past month month that have been chock full of these insipid fools who think it's cool to leech the system and then laugh about how the banks can "Sue them if they want".


[edit on 1-10-2009 by D.E.M.]

I worked in debt collections for several years, and it’s not as simple as people just not wanting to pay it back. Things happen, people lose jobs, get sick, family get sick, etc etc, usually things out of their control lead to them falling behind in repayments.

I found most people did want to pay it back but the back will only accept a certain amount in a minimum amount of time, which most people can’t stick to, which leads to them paying nothing back at all.

Oh and before you start screaming “theft” and “crime” get your facts correct.

Originally posted by D.E.M.
Why did you take the loan if you weren't going to pay if off? Isn't that...theft?

Contrary to what you might believe, it’s not theft, as the customer didn’t rob the Money; they were given it by the bank. Banks loan money to people, when they do there is a risk involved, the risk that they might not get it back, banks weigh up the risk and decided yes or no to giving out the loan to a particular person, in most cases the bank wins and the risk pays off, in some cases it doesn’t and the bank looses.

But by no means is it theft.

Originally posted by D.E.M.
in essentially stolen cash.

Refer to explanation of why it’s not considered theft.

Originally posted by D.E.M.
When it pops because of all you fools who just up and decided that you would rather steal thousands than pay back your debts, you'll have only your own heads to blame.

Again, see above.

Originally posted by D.E.M.
You did the crime (took out debt)

Again, taking out debt is not a crime, hence people don’t get arrested or go to jail because they are in debt.

People should pay it back, but the bank which loaned them the cash should also give a bit of extra time to fix it up should certain things happen, instead they just demand and demand amounts that the person cannot pay and they end up getting nothing.

Working in the debt collection area for years (before I finally had enough of it) you see that it’s not just as simple as people taking out money and not wanting to pay it back. When you have to repossess a home with the family crying on the lawn, or take away a car that someone needs for work, or serve a summons to someone in a coma, then you will see it’s not as simple as you make it out to be.




Mikey

reply to post by D.E.M.


#s screwede up in this country for to long we have been hosed now its time to screw them and mess the fed and this whole stinking system... TAKE IT TO THEM ITS TIME TO RISE UP JOIN THE DEBTORS REVOLT!!!!

www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply to post by D.E.M.


I agree with you.

People think they can bite the bullet when they die...but all it does is make you die that much sooner.

People take no responsibility. Do we blame people for being stupid, or do we blame people for not educating each other? Me thinks the peeps be stoopid.

People didn't borrow interest, (technically they didn't even borrow money) it was levied against them without full knowledge of the contact they agreed to.

Compounded interest should be outlawed and debts should be forgiven. If you factor in all the interest paid yearly along with the purchasing power of western currencies, Canada and U.S. resemble third world countries.

If anything, a massive fraud is being done by these companies lending money to broke people and the people need to see that they are actual poor so they can take action against it.

When I say broke people I am not just talking about the poorest class, even middle class families are broke, they just don't know it.

Originally posted by D.E.M.
Man o man, I just LOVE the hypocrisy in this place some days. Heaven forbid that the corporations misplace a single red cent and get bailed out, oh no. The citizens on the other hand?
Mortgages: Hah, I'll just let them take the house.
Loans: Screw it, I'm not paying!
Credit cards: I know, I'll bounce this maxed out card onto that card and bounce that balance onto another!

Now, don't get me wrong, I'm all for sticking it to the man and getting the corporations, Banks, and government out of the picture. But seriously people, start taking a little bloody responsibility here for the problems the world is facing right now.

You don't want to pay off your credit card balance because the interest is too high? Oh, Poor Baby! I suppose the banks Forced you to go and max out 2 or even 3 cards! I suppose you just couldn't resist buying all the things with those cards! Of course, it's not your fault, don't pay it back!

20k in debt and just not going to pay it back? Why did you take the loan if you weren't going to pay if off? Isn't that...theft?

I want to paint a picture for you. I want to paint a conservative estimate of 100 million americans alone, each with 3 credit cards with an 8k maximum credit. Each of those cards is maxed, and the owners are merely shuffling the balance between the three and letting the interest grow. Do the math, that is 8,000,000,000 or 8 Billion in essentially stolen cash.

I'm not siding with the banks, i'm merely trying to point out the reeking hypocrisy that percolates throughout this society sometimes. What right do you have to take the money and not pay it back? The consumer credit bubble is just as big, if not massively larger than the mortgage bubble. When it pops because of all you fools who just up and decided that you would rather steal thousands than pay back your debts, you'll have only your own heads to blame.

Once again, not siding with the banks, simply trying to wake people up to the fact that they are hardly innocent in the slightest. The concept of a "Debtors Revolt" is as laughable as a Prison Riot, in fact its the same bloody thing. You did the crime (took out debt) and are now doing the time (Suffering interest and payments on the debt you willingly took on). You are just as guilty as the faceless corporate entities you decry.

[edit on 1-10-2009 by D.E.M.]

I consider myself lucky. I do not have any credit cards, never have, never will. Never have understood the concept. My life has been in a downward spiral since late 2005. I've lost my business and a marriage due to the economic situation. I have no children and no mortgage. I dont see hipocracy, I see rage, terror, and disgust. There has always been people who never intended to pay loans or mortgages out there that had them and shouldn't have. This is not the same. I think the people who are doing the things you said are desparate, and frankly dont care anymore. Their attitudes are "what are ya gonna do, lock me up?" I know people right now who might take that option so they would know that they are going to have a roof over their head and another meal. What has been perpetrated upon us is beyond words, and the worst is surely being kept from us. As far as responsibility goes, jeez a little owning up, and making good would be in order from the financial institutions. I have yet to see this. Nothing but more smoke and mirrors. Instead of raging about 8Trillion of hypothetical defaults, how about 700 trillion in derivatives. When that bubble pops, well, Thats it. I hate a hipocrit more than anything, just can't handle them. People act crazy when they start loosing their livelyhood, and I think thats what is being seen in the world today.
my .000002

reply to post by Mikey84

I worked in debt collections for several years, and it’s not as simple as people just not wanting to pay it back. Things happen, people lose jobs, get sick, family get sick, etc etc, usually things out of their control lead to them falling behind in repayments.

That is the truth of it. For years the banks and the credit card companies were dishing out loans and huge credit limits, not only dishing them out but persuading and bombarding people with offers and seducing them into taking them out. They increased limits to ridiculous levels giving more and more credit to persuade people to spend more and more. That was out of greed not out of the goodness of their hearts. They did not check or care if anyone could pay it back or not.
Most people have every intention of paying back their debts but lose jobs, get sick etc. And then they find that the congenial companies are not so congenial at all. In fact the way banks and credit card companies treat people is nothing short of a disgrace, penalising for a few pounds inadvertently into overdraft, hiking up interest rates, ridiculous charges for late payments of even one day.
What they increasingly have done to people who have perfect credit, have always paid their bills on time; is to suddenly and without warning cut the credit limit just above what is owed.
Now if you have lost your job and are hoping to get another, you need either a loan or that existing credit limit to just pay the bills. But now all credit is gone just when you need it, and that new job is proving elusive in this recession. So you spiral into a decline, that is both unecessary and helps nobody. The banks and card companies are not very kind about this. Credit scores are ruined for a very long time if not forever, and you end up defeated and with little chance of ever being able to pay back the loans. That is why people are sticking two fingers up, because they can't do anything about it.
The banks and the credit card companies have only themselves to blame and I hope they suffer for their greed. What I hope now is that everyone tosses their credit cards away and never uses them again or ever accepts a new one. I hope that every credit card company goes out of business. I hope that everyone takes their money out of the banks and they all go under as well. That would be justice.

reply to post by D.E.M.

So you spent thousands you didn't have, and now refuse to pay the piper?

Yes, the audacity of the federal government amazes me.

...oh. Not what you meant?

reply to post by LordBucket


more like trillions

I personally did NOT spend thousands that I didn't have.
However, i'm beginning to wish that I DID because these wonderful banking institutions that you are such a fan of are sticking it to us quite forcefully. It'd be kind of nice just to stick it to them once, especially considering all of the TAXPAYER money that has gone to these slimey corrupt little weasels.
This Federal Government and these banking institutions have done nothing special for me at any one point in my lifetime......and that goes double for the Gov't. We pay out the BUTT in taxes, and yet most of us don't gain anything by it. It goes to pay for programs that I have no need for or don't qualify for right now(social security won't be around by the time I need it for example), it goes to pay for trillion dollar wars halfway across the world, and that's about it from what i've seen.

BTW, 16th amendment was ratified illegally.

Never paying income tax again.

wait till Oct. 15 when small businesses with their secod tax extension cant pay. then the credit crisis will begin. do you not know we are a debt based sociity?

By the way its October 1st what is going on with Californias IOUs they sent out I have heard nothing on this anywhere has anyone else?

reply to post by lunchmanstan


An important date to keep in mind, and it's pretty scary that it is literally RIGHT around the corner now. It's definitely going to get ugly REAL soon.

As far as Poed, I have no idea on those Cali IOUs you mentioned. On a slightly related note, it's pretty scary that the Federal Gov't just almost shut down non-essential functions....i'd say it's becoming quite clear that we're all screwed in some form or fashion, and I think debt is going to be a LOT less important to most Americans pretty quickly here.

[edit on 1-10-2009 by mpriebe81]

Everyone is anti-government now right....

Just wait....

Soon it will be everyone against the rich...which is why we are seeing so much opposition right now in the CORPORATE MEDIA.

Once you realize you don't have much and they have it all....and dictating your opinion with it...

Then you'll see it. It's gonig to take more time...and it has to get worse for it to happen...

Eventually people will eat the rich...and that's what they are afraid of.

reply to post by David9176


Agreed David, I don't see this shaking down in any other way.

"Eat the rich", it couldn't possibly be put any more succinctly, and I have always
enjoyed that phrase.

reply to post by David9176


I call a drumstick!

But seriously...it's coming. And unfortunately it won't really be eating the rich, but the upper middle class. The rich will be on their private jets en route to their private islands with their mega yachts and security forces.

reply to post by mpriebe81

"Eat the rich", it couldn't possibly be put any more succinctly, and I have always enjoyed that phrase.

That's what people need to get. Most politicians are millionares. They are not like us. They are not living paycheck to paycheck. I don't give a damn about loans and debt.

The reason why people are in trouble with debt is because THEY NEEDED IT. Every person wants to have it all. People make mistakes...but those mistakes will NEVER MATCH what the banks and government have done to waste our money and get us involved in conflicts that we should not be involved in.

Both parents in MOST families have to work...which leaves their kids without the attention of their parents that they would have received 20 years ago or more.

Destruction of the wealth of the middle class is already here....the destruction of your youth...our future...is beginning to happen....and for what?

Ideology.

Screw ideology. I don't care about Liberal/Conservative ideology anymore. I care for what is right and just.