Germany declares economic war

God I wish the UKIP would get some freaking votes.

reply to post by crimvelvet
The German will always sell the Brit down the river when it comes to the economy, look back to WW1 and WW2, they were just the same, expansionist Germanic wars based on economics



[edit on 24-9-2009 by ufoorbhunter]

reply to post by crimvelvet
I'm A Brit not a Euro. I don't understand them but I understand the American



[edit on 24-9-2009 by ufoorbhunter]

Originally posted by Sargon of Akkad
God I wish the UKIP would get some freaking votes.

Sod UKIP, they have no decent policies aside from "leaving the EU". They're a one trick pony.

Look in my sig for an alternative. Also, see how the Mayor of Doncaster is doing and how the people see him. Not many Mayors can boast a 93% approval rating and guess which Party he represents...

Originally posted by stumason
Lets just clear up a few things in this thread...

Firstly, the English don't like the EU because it has become something other than what were originally asked to sign up for. We did not join to become "another state"

Why not? I mean why wouldn't they?

Like it or not popular or not the Earth is a dangerous place. The US could use some help. We are taking a beating out here. The EU needs to grow a pair IMO. Get over the colonial stigma and reengage on the world stage. WWII was not the end of European participation.

reply to post by SLAYER69


Because the way the EU is set up means it is dominated and controlled by France and they're best pal Germany, to do their bidding. they make up rules which damage the UK and benefit them and if the rules are not to their liking, they ignore them, unlike our spineless Government who implements them wholesale. 70% of all our Laws come from the EU now! We're a legislative mess. Big Government was never an English thing, it is a French/German model of top-down leadership. It isn't democratic and follows the continetal style of Government, which is in direct contradiction to everything the UK and England has fought against for centuries.

That is why.

If it was fair, open and democratic, then maybe we'd feel different.

Hello Stu. Been a while

I agree with most of your points but..

Originally posted by stumason
The French and Germans have been trying this for centuries and after seeing we couldn't be defeated militarily, they decided to talk us into it and use our corrupt politicians to betray us.

Do you really really believe this? Really? That the EU is an elaborate plot by the French and germans to take over Britain.. Really?

This is what Im on about with the whole subconscious Imperial thing.. Obviously no offense meant or anything. It just makes sense. Everyone country's population have a subconscious tic. The Irish one is being pissed off with the British Empire As petty as it is at this stage, its been handed down through the generations whether we choose to embrace it or not.

I suspect Dermo is only so Pro-European because Ireland has benefitted from billions of EU cash to pull their country out of the crap-heap.

OOOOooooooh! You cut me deep there Stu.. you cut me deep.

Im not actually THAT pro EU. I canvassed against the Lisbon treaty in the first Irish Lisbon referendum .. Not something a pro EU person would do. However, I am a realist and see that these kinds of blocs are the evolution of the civilization on mankind. Without them, we would succumb to war, loss of prosperity etc.

I do get what you are saying about the UK. It is in itself an independent powerhouse that should probably have had concessions drawn up for itself before ratifying the Lisbon treaty. Its unfortunate that you are not getting the opportunity to go to the ballots over this topic. Its also possible that your leaders see the future of the EU as I see it.. the fact is that the world is soon to be a world of superpowers and powerhouses.. by staying in the EU, Britain stays a part of the bloc that holds the largest economic share while also holding one of the largest shares in the EU.

Anyway, its all only opinions.

reply to post by Dermo


Your still missing the point, those that ruled the country and ran the likes of the East India company who set up this economic model were not Anglo-Saxons.. Anglo-Saxons were a people not a country.. So refering to an Anglo-Saxon model refers to a people.

And if you look at how the Anglo-Saxons lived you would know this model does not represent their culture.

Just as an FYI I live in the part of the Country that has the highest number of Anglo-Saxon named towns, places and villages... Some 40 in the whole county... very very few towns in the UK have Anglo-Saxon derived names, a lot are Roman, I.e Constantine the Great was proclaimed Augustus in York, So New York and most cities in America do not have Anglo-Saxon names.

Originally posted by Dermo
This is a pretty sensationalist claim, economic war.. yea right. Shut down the British economy? Nonsense.

The Germans want stricter financial regulation to ensure steadier albeit slower, less wasteful growth for the future.. this will ensure the 'Boom Bust' system that occurs in the Anglo Saxon economic model will not happen again or if it does happen, will not cause the same kind of crash.

The British 'City of London' financial district is a hub for most of the global investment market. The financial work that takes place there is almost all based on speculation and is key to the survival of the Anglo Saxon model that the UK/US/Ireland/Canada/Australia use (or used to use depending on how these countries policies are changed by this crises).

The City of London is the epitome of the unregulated financial free market that has both driven western development and set it back a decade over the past two years.

The regulated Continental system that the Germans are trying to push makes it slightly harder to get loans, harder to profit from speculation and curbs growth quite a bit while making it more stable.

Personally, I think the Germans are correct, this needs to be done.

On the other hand, it would destroy the UK as a global financial hub unless the rest of the world follows suit.

Its a hard call. Personally, i think this crises is the end of the unregulated Anglo Saxon model. Especially seeing as the BRIC countries are developing rapidly with their models and the Continental model that Germany & France has proven to be pretty robust.

The Anglo Saxon model needs a frontier to exploit to be successful.. and there's not many of those left until we start colonizing space.

If this goes through, it will hit Britain and New York hard. I think its the right thing to do though.

Great post, I have to concur wholeheartedly in everything you say.

I'd also go further and say this is a great way to create a 'German Boogeyman' in the eyes of the British people, so that we don't demand political and financial reform from our leaders. Look at the fiasco with the MPs expenses. 645 members of parliament and what 600+ criminals and we get distracted from pursuing them by flotsam and jetsom.

When I read the Journos second defensive point it became so obvious that the journo was entirely part of TPTB agenda:

"Hedge funds had almost nothing to do with crisis as agreed by the Turner Report and the EU’s Larosiere Report. They are already well regulated by the FSA in London (unlike New York, where they are not regulated). The FSA’s hedge fund code is generally viewed as a model for others."

WTF!WTF!WTF! that's just total (expletive deleted)!!!!

reply to post by stumason


Fair enough however...

I would rather see a EU with the UK participating at least that way they have a say in things. The alternative is having a UK steamrolled by a giant EU like it or not.

reply to post by thoughtsfull


I do get your point, Was just throwing in some facts. It is just a name after all.

Thx for the info, shows my English history is severely lacking.

reply to post by Dermo


It would not surprise me if there as an undertone amongst the French and Germans at a perceived "getting back" at Britain becuase of all the history. You talk about a national sub-concious, well they'll have one too! They both have tried, on several occasions in the past, to rule the continent and every time, the British got in the way. Now they are doing it through the back door!

My coment about your "pro-EUness" was a light hearted stick at you. No offence intended . But Ireland has benefitted greatly from EU membership whereas the UK not so much, which is ironic considering the anti-EU feeling in Ireland, probably because you don't want to be abosrbed by another stete so soon after leaving one!

I can see the benefits of power blocs and have no real issue with the EU in theory. It's the practice that bothers me. The incessant corruption, the non-demoractic style of Government, the big, top-down imposition of laws and the very "this is a French private club" feeling that we get from it.

reply to post by stumason


From where we sit the EU will be a force that needs to be dealt with. Participation is the only way to go. The alternative is isolation.

Originally posted by ufoorbhunter
reply to post by dooper

 

Lol at your post dooper. I'm a Brit and you speak for me. Nothing the EU has ever done is a benefit to me and my life. Britain would be better off going it alone, or even better becoming the 51st state!

If the UK became the 51st state there would be mass migration to Europe. No disrespect to my American friends but why would we want to go out of the frying pan into the fire.
The rest of Europe will be out of recession long before the UK or the USA.

I know little about the finer details of this financial crisis, do know though the banking system has to change, otherwise the circle of boom and bust will continue.
What this guy is asking for imo is correct. Having an economy built on money and banks is like building sandcastles there is no substance.

reply to post by Dermo


Hey, is ok, I just see the Anglo-Saxons as being the Butler, maid or other kind of servant in the times of the Empire, all the way back to being slaves to the Normans, the Anglo-Saxons (likes the Scots/Welsh and Irish) have been ruled by a messed up elite for a long time.. and it's about time we got our nations back, and I would rather take that route than join some bigger club with another set of elites who hold all the wealth and who call the shots.

For the last 5 years I have been implementing EU directives for a US corporate in 10 member states.. the US want to go by rules that don't fit with EU rules, it was a real headache, and I was forever arguing with legal eagles in each member state (except Sweden coz they just seem to do things in plain English/Swedish and make it work)

I recently implemented the WEEE (Waste Electrical and Electronic Equipment) legislation across Europe covering $3bn in revenue and although France enacted the legislation, you can't do anything as their is nothing behind the legislation, yet the UK was threatened with a fine for not implementing it, while Italy and Spain just plain ignored it. I quit a few months ago... the EU is just a balls up..

reply to post by dizzylizzy

In some ways I do agree with you there. The Germans and to a degree the French have continued with a world beating manufacturing industry, maybe the Anglo way of doing economics is based on rubbish and the continentals base theirs on earning money from proper material sales.

reply to post by SLAYER69


The UK/Britain or England does not need to be isolationist.. We still have a relationship with the Commonwealth, which in theory could be built upon, and many other nations around the world.

The UK would still trade with the EU, just not integrated into the EU.. The UK would still trade with the US.. I don't see a huge problem with the UK being out of the EU, perhaps the integration and harmonisation process will speed up.

I ran a unit thaT covered 10 member states and none of my Colleagues/Staff/Contacts in each of those states wanted the EU to be any closer than it is at the moment, it is not just the UK that is worried about the EU.

reply to post by thoughtsfull


Don't get me wrong I understand the subtleties...

However that is great when on paper but the reality is another beast all together.

Originally posted by Dermo

Originally posted by ufoorbhunter
Britain would be better off going it alone, or even better becoming the 51st state!

We always knew you English wanted to be a part of the US. Maybe if you keep kissing ass, they might let you join.

Steady. Not all of us.

It seems to me what this German bloke is saying is what 'we the people' want. We want financial, economic, and political reform. But our governments in the US and UK are fighting these reforms at the G20. So to support this anti German sentiment is idiotic for each of you and me, unless you are one of the billionaire elite.

I just noticed the US is all of a sudden warning its citizens about being vigilant while travelling in Germany. It's just like what happened with South Africa (SA) the other day. There was a difference of opinion between SA and the US/UK contingent prior to the G20, so the US told them we won't protect you from terrorism anymore, we're shutting down our offices in SA see how long you last without us. Of course SA kept quiet and backed down, at least this German is speaking out. I actually think what he is saying is quite brave considering.

Originally posted by stumason
It's the practice that bothers me. The incessant corruption, the non-demoractic style of Government, the big, top-down imposition of laws and the very "this is a French private club" feeling that we get from it.

These are the main reasons I canvassed against Lisbon in our first referendum.

But since our No vote, there has been a huge amount of transparency as to what the democratic system will become and how the top down laws will be implemented which have made me breath a sigh of relief. Its not as bad as we are all expecting, not for the first 50 or so years anyway.. by that stage, the EU propaganda will have turned us so we won't know any better

Ireland will vote yes this time, I think your only chance is if the Czechs can push it through their courts and delay it long enough for there to be a change of government and a referendum.

Only question is though, is the Tories 'plan' for a Lisbon referendum just a ploy to attract votes? Or will they follow through if the Czechs can hold it up long enough? But can the Czechs hold it up any longer with the French and Germans breathing down their throats?

Its all very messy.