India's lunar mission finds evidence of water on the Moon

reply to post by TheComte


What world water shortage?

Our world is two thirds covered with the stuff.

We have a job of engineering, in order to bring water to every country that was in short supply and needed it. It would cost a lot to implement, if money was a factor , but it's easily possible.

Sea water is pumped to the most arid regions on earth. Mile upon mile of shallow, black plastic or perspex domes, or concave surface tunnels, perhaps only a few feet tall and a a few meters wide, but covering tens of square miles or more, could be used for the evaporation of sea water, the resultant condensate channeled by gravity and surface design of the tunnels' inside face, collected in buried troughs after running down the inside of these domes or tunnels, can be pumped on anywhere.

You could even kill two birds with one stone, by using lenses and / or parabolic solar collectors / concentrators to flash boil the sea water to achieve the same effect of purifying the water, but the resulting high pressure steam can be used to drive electricity turbines, before condensing and being drawn off to be pumped away to be used for drinking and irrigation. In both of these cases, the mineral/salt residue left behind can be purified, separated and used to add small amounts of essential minerals to the processed water. Other residues would be valuable as fertilizers.

If enough of these are set up, NOWHERE in the world need be without clean safe drinking and irrigation water. After the initial investment, which would be significant in capital and manpower, the whole operation would be quite cheap in monetary terms. The turbines would provide the operations' energy needs, maybe a useful surplus too.
The problem is, although small scale trials of schemes similar to these are going on now, there is not enough will to spend the money...it's as simple as that. Money.

Shame the world has given trillions and trillions away to the world financial organisations, when these types of clean and green energy and water projects could have been installed around our world, for a fraction of it.

But that's crazy human 'leaders' for ya.




[edit on 25/9/2009 by spikey]

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by imdeceived

 

No one has ever said water is rare. In fact we find it just about everywhere we bother to look for it, even in interstellar space. We've suspected it on the moon for more than ten years. We've known about it on Mars for a long time. Comets, in good part, are made of it.

The trick is finding it in its liquid state. That has not yet been done. Europa may have a sea of liquid water under its ice but we do not know that for certain.

Our moon could be similar to saturn's moon "Enceladus"?

Enceladus‘ plume particles grow within the water vapour ascending through the cracks within the moon‘s ice crust.

.
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/e34f4d08a77b.png[/atsimg]
.
There will never be liquid water on the moon's surface.
-Or Im way off, just thinking out loud

reply to post by kyleplatinum

Our moon could be similar to saturn's moon "Enceladus"?

Nope.

Not even close to similar.

There is a BIG difference, with bodies that are very, very far from the Sun....

reply to post by kyleplatinum


...Or, the water molecules that have been found on the moon may originate from earth and travel?
.

Suchcharged water molecules can survive the cosmic travel time from the Earth upper atmosphere to the surface ofthe Moon.

Reaching the lunar surface the negativelycharged water particle meets the positively charged(from UV radiation, [7]) dust particles. With chargeddust particles water molecule forms a complex coagu-lated particle.

Source...www.lpi.usra.edu...

I just don't get how liquid water wont evaporate due to pressure differences.

fluids will try to equalize pressure, meaning that it will evaporate and diffuse, perhaps forming an atmosphere.




[edit on 9/25/2009 by die_another_day]

reply to post by die_another_day

You're correct, liquid water vaporizes rapidly in a vacuum. There has been no claim (by scientists, that is) of liquid water existing on the surface of the Moon.


[edit on 9/25/2009 by Phage]

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by die_another_day

 

You're correct, liquid water vaporizes rapidly in a vacuum. There has been no claim (by scientists, that is) of liquid water existing on the surface of the Moon.
[edit on 9/25/2009 by Phage]

Phage, really I respect your opinion. But you have to agree that the lunar soil is very moist, as evident by the many Apollo surface photos showing the Astronaut's boot print indentations very much holding their form.

By one estimate, well according to this article here anyway, that for each Ton of lunar soil about 25% consists of water.

In ABC News' article here:

But now Pieters and her colleagues have delivered a surprise. They say they found evidence of water -- in small concentrations, but enough to add up to billions of gallons -- virtually all over the lunar surface.

Even according to Space.com liquid water is spread out all over:

Three spacecraft picked up the signature of water, not just in the frigid polar craters where it has long been suspected to exist, but all over the lunar surface, which was previously thought to be bone dry.

Best,
M

reply to post by Majorion

No.
The soil is not very moist. It isn't even a little bit moist. There is no estimate of 25% water. That article has it very confused. The estimate is "one quart of" (not quarter of) water per ton of soil. The writer really messed that up. Pretty amusing.

How much of each type of molecule exist on the surface can't be determined from the data, but suffice it to say the lunar soil couldn't be called wet.

"Even the driest deserts on the Earth have more water than are at the poles and surfaces, as we've presented here, of the moon," said Jim Green, director of the Planetary Science Division of the Science Mission Directorate at NASA Headquarters in Washington, D.C.

What was detected was the molecular "fingerprint" of water. The form of the water is unknown. It could be ice crystals mixed in with the soil, it could be in the form of hydrated minerals. They just don't know.

The exact form that the water takes on the lunar surface isn't clear with the data the scientists have, either, though they have several ideas: The water could be mixed in to the lunar surface or could be a part of altered minerals present in the lunar dirt.

www.space.com...

This water on the moon is made by solar wind (protons, ionized hydrogen) from the sun impacting into oxygen-rich lunar soil.
As such, it is uniformly spread out in small concentrations across the surface layer, making in pretty hard to utilize.
But any water is better than no water, and in a closed-loop self-sufficient base you wont need much, maybe just to replenish loses.

reply to post by tk1967


When I read this I forgot I was there is hope. Turn the moon into a capatalist mecca. Create one class of people people where every one is rich. Build our industrial capacity not on the backs of the down trodden, but from what can happen when we get our hot little hands on the resources including energy, from our own solar system

considering the information given by past astronauts, doesn't it seem clear that nasa has always kept privy information well gaurded. i would imagine individuals thinking outside the box could have assumed there was water on the moon already.

the conspiracy theorists saying NASA hid this are perhaps jealous that India was the first to find evidence of water on the moon.

Even space.com is saying now there's evidence but not giving props to India or even mentioning india in the report.

Unbelievable!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

reply to post by ModernAcademia

India was not the first to find evidence. The first evidence came from Clementine in 1994. In 1999 Luna Prospector also found evidence. There have been other indications as well.

The instrument on Chandrayaan-1 which made the latest observations came from NASA and was much more sensitive that previous instruments used. This was an international effort. To put a nationalistic spin on it is absurd.

According to ISRO chief Madhavan Nair, the Moon Impact Probe (MIP) from Chandrayaan got water's signature way back in June before NASA's M3 aboard Chandrayaan did.

Link to article

[edit on 4/10/2009 by sentinel2107]

Okay, I’ve read the posts. I am still not clear on the impact of this to man that we have country after country duplicating this same research. Considering the current global economic situation can we afford this? If there is water what will this prove?

Then I am suspicious, China wants to go to the moon now, India probes have lost contact for some strange reason, and on 10/9 NASA attempts to set off a bomb hoping to make a 5 mile long crater to perform more testing to establish the existence of water on the moon. I also believe if they were looking for the mere traces of the existence of a new life form or organism these efforts would be conjoined. It’s sounds to me like whatever they are looking for has some type of value here on earth and its not just water. Is this just another space race and the US is attempting to be first as to call the prize and to establish control? We did go there first and called it. I don’t know but it all sounds fishy to me. Also what are the implications of an impact to moon on the Earth and it’s atmosphere after the impact. Shouldn’t there be a world wide organization to govern what we can and can not do to our moon? What’s to stop Russia or China from doing the same thing. I haven’t heard or read anything that there would be no implication to the Earth. What if there is falling debris or how about the release of some germ into the delicate balance of the Earths atmosphere that could impact humanity?

Doesn’t sound well thought out to me. But then again I’m no scientist.

Are my concern’s naïve?

Hey all,

You know, I'm beginning to wonder about India. After watching 60 Minutes Sunday, they certainly seem to have a bunch of local Indian-people welfare troubles.
In that there are so many families w/young children living on the street w/out fresh water, food and facilities. It really opened my eyes to their Moon Mission Probes and Nuclear WMD technology expenditures.
Am I wrong?, or is there a good chance there are mixed-up priorities there.

Decoy

Its not just water anymore

www.dnaindia.com...

Bangalore: Scientists at the Indian Space Research Organisation (Isro) are on the brink of a path-breaking discovery. They may have found signs of life in some form or the other on the Moon.
They believe so because scientific instruments on India's first unmanned lunar mission, Chandrayaan-1, picked up signatures of organic matter on parts of the Moon's surface, Surendra Pal, associate director, Isro Satellite Centre (Isac), said at the international radar symposium here on Friday.
Organic matter consists of organic compounds, which consists of carbon -- the building block of life.
It indicates the formation of life or decay of a once-living matter.
Pal said the signatures were relayed back to the Bylalu deep space network station near Bangalore by the mass spectrometer on board the Indian payload, the moon impact probe (MIP), on November 14, 2008.
The relay of data happened moments before it crashed near the Moon's south pole. The MIP was the first experiment of the Chandrayaan-1 mission, which was launched on October 22, 2008.
Pal, however, did not elaborate, but concluded saying "the findings are being analysed and scrutinised for validation by Isro scientists and peer reviewers".
"It is too early to say anything," said the director of Isro's space physics laboratory R Sridharan, who is heading the team of MIP data analysis and study. He, however, did not deny the finding.
DNA later inquired with other senior Chandrayaan-1 mission scientists, who not only confirmed the finding, but gave further details.
"Certain atomic numbers were observed that indicated the presence of carbon components. This indicates the possibility of the presence of organic matter (on the Moon)," a senior scientist told DNA.
Interestingly, similar observations were made by the US's first manned Moon landing mission, the Apollo-11, in July 1969, which brought lunar soil samples back to Earth. But due to a lack of sophisticated equipment then, the scientists could not confirm the finding.
However, traces of amino acids, which are basic to life, were found in the soil retrieved by the Apollo-11 astronauts.
The Chandrayaan-1 scientists, at present, are analysing the source of origin of the Moon's organic matter. "It could be comets or meteorites which have deposited the matter on the Moon's surface; or the instrument that landed on the Moon could have left traces," a senior space scientist said.
"But the presence of large sheets of ice in the polar regions of the Moon, and the discovery of water molecules there, lend credence to the possibility of organic matter there," he said.

reply to post by '___'omino

Very interesting but it sounds like a reporter got the story a bit messed up.
First he says organic matter was found then later says:

"Certain atomic numbers were observed that indicated the presence of carbon components. This indicates the possibility of the presence of organic matter (on the Moon)," a senior scientist told DNA.

The presence of carbon compounds is a pretty far cry from "organic matter". The LCROSS mission also found organic compounds.

No amino acids were found in Apollo samples, though precursors were. The same precursors which have been found in meteorites.

[edit on 12/12/2009 by Phage]

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by '___'omino

 

Very interesting but it sounds like a reporter got the story a bit messed up.
First he says organic matter was found then later says:

"Certain atomic numbers were observed that indicated the presence of carbon components. This indicates the possibility of the presence of organic matter (on the Moon)," a senior scientist told DNA.

The presence of carbon compounds is a pretty far cry from "organic matter". The LCROSS mission also found organic compounds.

No amino acids were found in Apollo samples, though precursors were. The same precursors which have been found in meteorites.

[edit on 12/12/2009 by Phage]

Phage thanks again for your information It is valuable as always
=)

*from Richard Hoagland on c2c*
nevermind its just him taking credit for stuff that he didn't really do.



[edit on 12-12-2009 by '___'omino]