Bank of America just gave ME attitude!!

I don't understand why everyone seems to have a beef with the banks and mortgage industry. They lend people money to buy things said people can not afford to buy all at once. They take the risk, yet are blamed when some simply don't want to pay their debt. They didn't strap anyone down and make them take out interest-only, no down payment mortgages. The government forced them, to give loans to unqualified lendees. The honest guy is the one who ends up getting hurt here, while the people who have no business taking out mortgages demand a bailout. Don't like the banks, don't use them.

bankers suck, down with the banks, to hell with them...

reply to post by stevegmu

I don't understand why everyone seems to have a beef with the banks and mortgage industry.

You’re kidding right?? Were you around in September or October of 2008. Have you heard the word TARP, Stimulus, or bailout?? During the Great Depression many were sad because the bankers jumped from buildings. Now they hold up signs saying Jump.

Do you think FDIC can cover the losses, when your bank goes under? They cant.

reply to post by nikiano


Whoever you bought the house from was already paid by the lender you borrowed the money from. No amount of justifying will change that fact.

The property is to secure the loan in case you can't pay. It has nothing to do with how much you borrowed. If you walk and the bank is forced to sell at less than the amount you knowingly borrowed, they are out the difference no matter who owns the mortgage right now.

Defaulting because you can't pay is one thing, doing it just get out of an obligation is another. If you don't have the means to pay that is entirely different than simply not paying back a debt you have the means to pay.

What I meant before is that if you walk and rent a house, you are buying a house for the owner and doing nothing for yourself. On top of that you ruin your credit for years.

Go out and price a lease on a comparable home and I'll bet you find the rent is higher than your mortgage payments are now. How would that help you is all I'm saying. The other is between you and your conscience. It must be bothering you if you are posting this on a public board.

Who is to blame. Look into Barney Franks, Fannie & Freddie and the way Franks and his cronies forced the banks to make these loans to people who could not afford them and would not have gotten them if not for the intervention by the Government. Nobody forced anyone to buy but they sure did lure people into it just to get their votes in the last couple of elections. Boy did it backfire on us.

I wonder? Everyone is aware the so called Bailout money was a loan that the Banks have to repay themselves? That seems to have been overlooked.

I want to jump back a bit, and discuss the idea that you can't rent the property because you'd be upside down on the payment.

I currently am in the same situation, and have been for well over a couple years now. I have a renter that pays on time - thanks to patience and due diligence. I am still short about $400 per month, and - while painful - I continue to cover the shortfall through good times and bad.

Why don't I walk away? The first reason is pride. The second reason is character. Like it or not, I signed the mortgage. No one forced me. At the time, I though the value of the property would stay stable, or at least break even. If I had to take a loss, it would only be a small loss, plus the realtor's commission. I never once thought the property would lose 50% of its value in 7 year's time.

Why not throw in the towel? I kind of look at this as a challenge. Those that persist, and hang in there, will ultimate reap the rewards when the market turns. Those that throw in the towel now will ruin their credit, and have given in. I look at this as a challenge to be a stronger person, with more character, and stronger values.

I agree that these are unprecedented times. Based on your response, being that Arizona is a no recourse state, you could probably walk away and face only minimal consequences.

Let me just add one more thing. Your decision to walk away right now is one based on emotions - anger, frustration. I think you should take a step back, try to think this through logically and rationally, and be as objective as possible.

When you do that, I think you will agree that you don't want to lose your moral compass by walking away from a contract that you willingly signed. If the market had skyrocketed, you would have profited. Because the market tanked, you are playing the role of the sore loser by walking away. That, to me, seems like a cheap way out, and not the way to go. Don't play the blame game.

You can blame others, but this decision is really about you, and about your character. Take the high ground. Don't walk away. The long-term consequences to your character will be destructive if you throw in the towel when the going gets tough.

Originally posted by wonderworld
reply to post by stevegmu

 

I don't understand why everyone seems to have a beef with the banks and mortgage industry.

You’re kidding right?? Were you around in September or October of 2008. Have you heard the word TARP, Stimulus, or bailout?? During the Great Depression many were sad because the bankers jumped from buildings. Now they hold up signs saying Jump.

Do you think FDIC can cover the losses, when your bank goes under? They cant.

I was and am against all bailouts. I think corporations with poor businesses models should be allowed to fail.

That's not the point, however. This thread is about someone not wanting to pay his mortgage, and demonizing the bank for not taking a loss and cutting his payment in half.

I use small, regional banks, like BB&T, which didn't get involved with sketchy mortgages. I have no doubt I am covered by the FDIC.

It is not the fault of Bank of America that your house went down in value. That is because we live in one plane of reality and the banks live in another. In our plane of reality we pay back what we owe not matter the turns and twists of fate. In their reality, they are really a front for the CIA and they just lost a bunch of money like 300 trillion on a deal for laundering illegal money from the illegal Iraq war that didn't go through because someone was trying to short the dollar. So 300 trillion is a lot of money to lose, and blackmailing the Japanese and Chinese and Italians with threatening them with earthquakes from HAARP didn't make is up, so a direct hit on FIAT money was necessary and they threatened congress with martial law if they didn't pass it. What is a little martial law among friends and countrymen. Since Bank of America fronts for the CIA it would seem that there were indeed culpable, but they belong to the "reality" of espionage, where they are protected from accountability and anything goes. The fact that your house is now worth less money due to their "irresponsibility" doesn't help you at all because you have to live in the "real" "responsible" world where you have to pay the bastards whatever they say really.

[edit on 10-9-2009 by m khan]

Thank you everyone for a lively debate today. I really do appreciate all the replies, bits of advice, and the chance to debate the pros and cons of doing something that I have always considered ethical.

I have made my decision of what I'm going to do, and I must say that this debate has helped. And, I'll tell you the conclusion I came to, and ultimately, what swayed my decision:

I have decided I am going to walk away from my house, and walk away from Bank of America. I will give them the keys so they don't have to go through the foreclosure process and kick me out. I will leave willingly without a fight, and I will still keep paying all my other bills on time, as I have done all my life. But Bank of America, I am walking out on.

What was the tiny piece that made me make my decision?

Ultimately, it came down to my morals vs. Bank of America's morals. I have always lived a moral, decent life my entire life. I have always paid my bills on time, and I have never walked out on any obligation, even during the worst years of my life.

But then, the government bailed out the investors when my bank failed, and awarded my mortgage to Bank of America, instead of letting my bank fail. And I got stuck with them...who I swore, I would never use again for as long as I lived.

And so tonight, I was lying in bed, asking myself what I should do... I finally asked myself, how have I been treated by Bank of America all my life?

When they took over my home loan about a year ago, they kept sending me tons of letters to call their help line if ever needed help. But fora month, everytime I called their help line, I got hung up on.

When I finally got a live person on the line yesterday, he told me that they aren't going to modify my loan principle, because if they did, it's possible I could make a profit on my house someday.

When I was 24, they did something terrible to me once. From what I hear, it is their usual business practice: they bounced checks when I had plenty of cash in my account, because one day they decided to record my checks before they recorded my paycheck. I had over $700 in my account, but they bounced my checks and charged me over $200 in overdraft fees, not to mention the fees I had to pay the merchants. I took all my money out of B of A and swore to them that I would never use them again. (And, by the way, those were the first and last checks I ever bounced in my life.)

So, I decided to walk away, based on the way they've treated me in the two years in my life I've been their customer....this past year, and my first year out of college.

If my loan was still with Countrywide, I would probably still continue to pay on it, despite the fact that my house value has gone down so badly, because Countrywide never did anything to me. But, my loan is not with Countrywide. It is now with Bank of America. I do not feel bad at all about giving B of A the shaft, since they once shafted me so many years ago.

When I give them the keys to my house and walk away, I will probably also give them a letter that says something like this:

**************

Dear Bank of America,

Remember: Do unto others, as you would have them do unto you. What comes around, goes around.

Paybacks are hell, aren't they?

Sincerely,
xxxxxxxxxxxxx

--------

One other factor also helped me come to a decision today. I found out that the government is changing the rules on how foreclosure will affect people's credit. A foreclosure used to affect your credit for 7 years. This year, they passed a law that made it for only 5 years. And I just heard today, from a real estate agent, that they are proably now going to lower it down to 3 years.

Plus, they extended the Mortgage Debt Relief act to apply to foreclosures that happen up through 2012, now.

I can only figure that, the government knows that they screwed a lot of people over and this is their way of saying: Yes, we screwed you. Go ahead, walk away...we'll make it easier for you.

So I am.



[edit on 10-9-2009 by nikiano]

[edit on 10-9-2009 by nikiano]

reply to post by nikiano


Niki, you are playing right into the banks hands even as you think you're taking a stand against them and walking away from your mortgage. If you leave the property and send them the keys you lose any leverage you've got and believe it or not, you've got the upper hand right now.

Banks are hiding HUGE losses on their balance sheets that would destroy them if they were forced to declare it. Until they finalize a foreclosure and sale, they can carry your mortgage as an asset on their books and not recognize the loss. They DON'T want to foreclose on your home, and the proof of that is that MILLIONS of homeowners have been in default for a year or more and are nowhere near being foreclosed on. Eventually it will happen, yes, but only when the real estate market recovers enough and the banks are profitable enough to absorb the losses.

If you're going to do this thing, do it so that YOU and NOT the banks profit. Stop paying your mortgage, put that money into a savings account and build a deposit for a new home (prices are still falling and you will have the pick of the crop when the time's right). Drag this sucker out and wait until the very last moment to leave, with a year or more's mortgage payments in YOUR hand instead of the bank's. There is NOTHING they can do about it.

reply to post by mythatsabigprobe


This advice is right on target!!

You should listen and follow it! My ex-wife has 3 homes that have been in foreclosure process for over 2 years! She has them rented out, and she is keeping the money from rent without paying the mortgages!!

One of the homes went all the way to Les Pendens (sp?), because the bank thought they would gain some equity, then they found out a second mortgage existed, and they dropped the whole thing for now!! The people holding her second mortgage didn't even try to foreclose, they wrote off the loan several months ago!! They had no equity, nothing to gain from a foreclosure, and it was a "toxic debt" making their books look bad, so they just wrote off the loan!!

In addition, many lenders are finding that they do not have "perfected" liens! In most states, only the actual holder of the mortgage can foreclose. Therefore, if it was bundled and sold, and then sold again to a REIT, and then publicly traded, there really doesn't exist an actual holder of the mortgage!! They can't call 100,000 shareholders into court to foreclose, and the bank no longer owns the paper (they only "service" the loan), the REIT has no staff willing or capable of pushing a foreclosure, so nobody is in position to foreclose on your home!!

An attorney out of Jacksonville is writing the book on fighting these cases and she hasn't lost a single battle yet!! Not one of her clients has lost their home, and there is a good chance that several will be able to sue for a clean Deed very soon!! (No mortgage!! Woo Hoo!!)

reply to post by getreadyalready


I know some people will find it hard to believe they wrote off the loan but a lady I work with had a 30K home equity loan she still owed 27K on, from Wells Fargo and a few months back she said they wrote it off and closed the account, in other words she got the cash but didn't have to pay most of it off. It really burned me up because for 20 years she has been beating everyone she knows out of money, I just wanted to back up your post. If you wait it out you may get lucky.

Ok, thanks for the advice, guys.

I hate to keep living there without paying (it feels like stealing), but saving a year's worth of mortgage/rent payments does sound amazing....and if it's true that some people are getting lucky about the banks not being able to foreclose due to bundling of loans....then it might be worth a shot.

Hmmm....I'll think about staying in the house until they foreclose. My only fear about that is that one day I'll come home to find the doors padlocked and all my stuff inside, with me not being able to get to it!! Can they do that?





[edit on 10-9-2009 by nikiano]

reply to post by nikiano


I wouldn't give them a letter, they can use it against you. I wouldn't tell them anything, if you are leaving. If it were me I'd stay there at least awhile. I would talk to an experienced real estate attorney before doing anything though. You might end up owing the outstanding balance after the bank resells it. But there may be a way around that.

reply to post by nikiano


duplicate post

[edit on 10-9-2009 by Bombeni]

Originally posted by Bombeni
reply to post by nikiano

 

I wouldn't give them a letter, they can use it against you. I wouldn't tell them anything, if you are leaving. If it were me I'd stay there at least awhile. I would talk to an experienced real estate attorney before doing anything though. You might end up owing the outstanding balance after the bank resells it. But there may be a way around that.

You might be right about the letter....good thinking.

No, actually, I'm lucky....in Arizona they can't come after you for the outstanding balance of the loan because we're a non-recourse state.

I talked to a lawyer last month (after a bank of america employee told me to!) and he said that a short-sale is better than a foreclosure because it won't affect your credit as much. But....they are now changing the foreclosure laws...and everyone on line is saying that when they did the short sale, it still affected their credit just as much as a foreclosure. So, I might as well just foreclose and save the realtor/closing fees of doing a short sale!


edit to ask: so, if I just stop paying my mortgage, what do I tell them when they call me up on October 2nd and ask where my mortgage payment is? Do I tell them they have to foreclose on me? Do I tell them I'm not paying because my home value has fallen? Anyone know?

[edit on 10-9-2009 by nikiano]

[edit on 10-9-2009 by nikiano]

reply to post by nikiano


If you have made up your mind, you might stall them the first couple months, but then, they have that "agreement" on recording, so that could be a problem. Probably just not answering their calls is best, but listen to the majority.

When you think about it, half the country has been foreclosed on. It is my opinion that eventually they are going to enact a law to forgive the foreclosures of this past year or so. Just my opinion though I have no expert knowledge whatsoever.

reply to post by nikiano


Bank of America only called me once per month! Don't tell them anything, don't even answer! Or if you do answer, tell them you would love to pay, if they will modify the loan!

I tried to modify for a long time, and my second mortgage company jumped right on board, but BofA did not! So, put the ball back in their court! Tell them you want the loan modified, or you are not paying! (I would just ignore their calls.)

In addition, don't worry about coming home to find the doors padlocked. You will get ample, ample notice. In about 3 or 4 months, you will start getting letters saying if you don't pay, they will begin foreclosure. Ignore those. A few months later, you will get a more official notice that they will begin legal proceedings. Ignore that also! Now, if you get an actual "Les Pendens" or anything from the County or State, you should read it in detail and pay attention to any dates that are listed! At that point, it may behoove you to make a payment or two to stop the proceedings! Wait till they call you and make arrangements with them to catch up the payments. Make one or two, and then stop again!! This starts things over again (almost to the beginning!)

Just in case, I would arrange to have someplace to move to over the next year or so, but in all likelihood you won't need it! I haven't made a payment in over a year, I moved out of the house in July, but I still haven't gotten the first legal notice!! I got a couple of threatening letters, but no legal notice! I don't feel guilty at all, because I tried to modify the loan, and they refused to do it, because I was current on my payments, and according to them I had ample income. I filed bankruptcy a few months after that ridiculous conclusion by them!

You know this pisses me off.

I also live in AZ and was potentially in the market to buy a house in 2005 but I refused because it was incredibly obvious the market was in a ridiculous unsustainable frenzy and I concluded it would be utterly stupid to pay the ridiculous prices.

It was totally and completely obvious to me and I would think anyone with 6th grade math knowledge that allowing people to buy homes with nearly nothing down, and allow interest only loans was an absolute guaranteed recipe for disaster. I rightly concluded the prices would crater when all the BS caused the inevitable collapse.

So you want me and every other responsible person to bail you out for your stupidity.

Then the majority of posters agree with your right to be stupid and not live up to your contractual responsibilities, probably because they have done similar stupid stuff themselves and do not want to take responsibility for their actions and instead want to say the evil banks made me do it. NO THEY DID NOT! If you were dumb enough to put 20 years of your income at risk because you bought some sales pitch or thought you were to cool to not live in a new house, you DESERVE to suffer.

This is a microcosm of why this country is in deep deep trouble - because guess what - it is becoming very obvious it does not pay to be responsible - and without the responsible people you will never be able to get a loan with what you consider remotely reasonable rates again. Do you know what that leads to - massive corruption and theft on a huge scale. This blame everyone else but myself is destroying us, and will make us a third world nation unless something changes quick.

reply to post by proximo


That is an excellent point and I agree with you, even though I am one of the ones defaulting on a mortgage, filing bankruptcy, and giving advice to others!

Here is how I get around the dichotomy:
1. Rent was just as inflated as Home Prices, I had a new wife and baby, and we really didn't have a better choice than to buy a new home, even though the price was ridiculous!
2. The market crashed because the banks made 125% loans, high interest, no equity, no documentation or credit needed.
(I actually had a down payment and good credit, so I did not contribute to the terrible lending practices!)
3. I actually improved my home after buying it, and I established some "sweat equity."
4. When the foreclosures started in my neighborhood, and the banks were unreasonable, they contributed to my properties 50% decline in value.
(Quick story, house across street, bank turned down offers of $160K and $170K, only to have it eventually auctioned off for $115K! They cost themselves $50K by being greedy, and they damaged my value!!)
5. Lastly, I desperately wanted to keep my home, and I was not asking for a reduction in principle. I only asked for a lowered interest rate, and some of the "HOPE" programs that were available. They refused even a temporary reduction of rate, and they refused to participate in the government programs!! They made their own bed!

Now, my current situation, my Father's hours were cut at his job, and he was struggling to pay for a large house with high utilities. I used the money I was saving from my house to remodel his into two Master Suites, fix the pool, replace the roof, and air conditioner. I now live in a much larger, nicer house, his bills are lower, my bills are lower, my wife has help with the kids, and we all benefit. My pride was damaged, but a good friend of mine that grew up in the USSR, showed me how successful the immigrants are at capitalizing on the American system.

As Americans, we often overlook the opportunities staring us in the face! Immigrants typically live with extended family, share expenses, pool money, start small businesses, get government help, and thrive in our country! Why don't we do it?