Concluding that 9/11 is a Government Conspiracy is Grotesque

Originally posted by OldDragger
Gee, with posts like this one ( and many others), I just can't imagine why
some people like me would see "Truthers" as pompous, dogmatic, self righteous, very closed minded windbags blathering on endlessly about baloney they learned on the internet! I just can't imagine it!
But then again, I am ignorant, brainwashed, a sheeple, a disinfo agent,
and all that, being a lesser being! Thats what you get when you disagree with a "Truther"!

[edit on 4-9-2009 by OldDragger]

So one person in his introductory post to this topic makes a village idiot comment, and you extrapolate that to all truthers? Oh please.

Gee, with posts like this one ( and many others)

What many others? Please go through this thread and enlighten me. Anyone who has actually read this thread can see that the truthers were very fair and maintained their composure while the OP and his buddies came off as over-emotional, angry, and insulting.

It seems like you guys just gripping for straws now. Let me make a friendly suggestion for you guys: stop posting in this thread and embarrassing yourselves until you actually have something relevant to say. All you are doing is promoting this thread as a "Hot Topic"... and at this point, I doubt you want that.

Here's a good educational video about American Imperialism and to understand the economical motives behind many events:

Confessions of An Economic Hit Man - What Really Goes on Behind Global Affairs

Very few people know anything about what really goes on behind the scene when it come to U.S. foreign policy and the corporate interests that drive it all. Our government is controlled by powerful corporate interests that have literally hijacked the powers of government and our military to advance their own selfish agendas.

This interview should totally blow your mind. John Perkins was one of the men working behind the scenes to expand a global empire primarily through economic blackmail where they seduced third world leaders into taking out enormous loans that were impossible to repay so we could then U.S. corporations could swoop in and acquire control of their natural resources.

The Interview video

Google Video Link

But this second video: "Apology of an Economic Hitman"

It is a movie documentary that is soo much better to watch - it is made like a movie from his book & Interview: Confessions of An Economic Hit Man.

The video is from Norwegian TV so it has Norwegian subtitles but they speak English in the movie-documentary - the documentary starts at 01:55 minutes in to the video.

ENJOY!

Google Video Link

[edit on 4-9-2009 by Chevalerous]

reply to post by Swampfox46_1999


yea, that's true, but i think days or weeks prior, some military equipment was moved around due to exercises being planned.

Can someone verify this for me. i remember reading it somewhere... I may be wrong.

if true, these resources were diverted to something else, leaving us open for an attack.

reply to post by mc1km



Radar at the time was a new technology and not many in the military really understood it. That, and the fact that there was a flight of B-17s supposed to arrive around the time the attack started is why the radar report was disregarded.

Since when have goverments not done 'grotesque' things to its populous? Since when has any present day nation at some point during man's lifespan on earth, not commited grotesque things to the citizens of the cities in which they reside? I'm not comparing the US to Nazi Germany, but look what Hitler did, too his own people. Look what we did to Japanese during WW2. Look what the french people did to the other french people in the 18th century. Look what Seirra Leone did to its civilians. Grotesque acts, bloody splotches in the history books, are common, and to suggest that any civilization is above mindless cruetly is, in my opinion, foolish. We are a civilized country, but we are not a civilized people, some of us anyway, and to think we are above falling into the mindless bloodshed situations that scar the face of history is nieve. We do not learn from history- the same thing happens, but it is either toned down or given a new coat of paint.

I'm not saying 9/11 is an inside job. I don't know. But I do not think that we are above it, some of us are, but how the hell do we know if the 4 star, battle hardened generals are or aren't?

So, does anyone think it was weird how Bush stayed in the Florida classroom for so long? VIDEO

I sure do, seeing as how the classroom was a publicly announced location and and America was under attack.

Originally posted by Chevalerous

Originally posted by Pathos

Who said I did not believe politicians can lie, steal, or cheat? What I am asking you people is - "Where is the human logic? Why would a non imperialistic society stage such an event?"

Wow!

unbelievable!

So according to you; America is a non imperialistic society?

I rest my case!

Imperialism Definition:

1. The policy of extending a nation's authority by territorial acquisition or by the establishment of economic and political hegemony over other nations.

2. The system, policies, or practices of such a government.

www.answers.com...

Imperialism Definition:

1. belief in empire-building: the policy of extending the rule or influence of a country over other countries or colonies

2. domination by empire: the political, military, or economic domination of one country over another (Does "PNAC" ring a bell?)

3. takeover and domination: the extension of power or authority over others in the interests of domination
cultural imperialism

encarta.msn.com...

Imperialism Definition:

1 : imperial government, authority, or system-

2 : the policy, practice, or advocacy of extending the power and dominion of a nation especially by direct territorial acquisitions or by gaining indirect control over the political or economic life of other areas; broadly : the extension or imposition of power, authority, or influence.

www.merriam-webster.com...

This video does explain a lot:
American Exceptionalism

reply to post by ugie1028


My unit has been involved in three separate exercises in the last two months.

At NO time were the 14 fighter jets, assigned to Continental Air Defense, moved from their bases, although it is a widely accepted falsehood in the truth movement. Thats 14 jets for the entire continental United States. Another widely believed falsehood with the truth movement, is that every fighter jet in the United States military is kept fully loaded with weapons at all times. That doesnt happen...ever. My unit has over 20 F-16's, and we do not even keep the cannon loaded with live ammo unless the pilots are heading to the range or we are standing duty as alert interceptors. As it is, several of the jets that did launch that day, were not armed and the pilots had come to the agreement that they would have to ram a hostile aircraft.

reply to post by Albastion

...stop posting in this thread and embarrassing yourselves until you actually have something relevant to say.

Hmmmm?? Say something relevant, please. I think I have. I agreed with the OP. The OP was getting slammed by the usual force, and it seemed relevant to add another voice.

All you are doing is promoting this thread as a "Hot Topic"... and at this point, I doubt you want that.

Why not? This IS a Hot Topic!! It's good to air it out, and the "Truth Seekers" are showing up and behaving as usual. Which is to say, not very well.

The entire POINT of this thread is about how anyone can actually sit around and believe that the events of 9/11 could have been completely palnned, and then implemented, by "agents" or "nefarious black ops" within our own government.

The concept of such a thing is 'grotesque'. The OP is wondering how people can actually subscribe to that, and think it is true. What motivates them? Because it is so abhorrent. NOT the people who believe it, even though everyone bristles and is thin-skinned and react negatively as if somehow they were individually accused...no, it is the mere fact that people think it is possible.

The belief in this implausible idea makes no sense, because it is based on incorrect foundations in the first place.

For the record: COULD the Government have been responsible in being either grossly incompetent, or, and this is a stretch but should be considered, willfully turned a blind eye to the impending terrorist attack?? THAT is the way the 'conspiracy investigation' should be directed towards.

The "Truth Seekers" would make a lot more headway if they used that tactic. Dig in underneath, if you truly believe this. DO NOT keep maounting a full-frontal assault, because people will continue to be dismissive to our faces and will laugh behind your backs.

Using that strategy would have been the smarter way to go. Might be too late now, the nest has been so fouled already.

reply to post by Albastion


Nope. Its been discussed on here many times. For one, the Secret Service was busy ensuring that the outside of the school was still safe and also trying to figure out exactly where they were going to move the President. Their primary exit plan was the first thing thrown out the window when it became appearant what was going on. Not to mention that earlier in the morning a group of "reporters" supposedly tried to get to where the President was for an interview that no one knew about. The absolute dumbest thing they could have done was to have rushed him out of the building.

Originally posted by Pathos


Your telling me that our government did this:


[edit on 4-9-2009 by Pathos]

I really understand your pain chap, a lot of people might use the word 'government'. I've said it time and time again on these forums, individuals determine actions, not an entire government, at best groups of individuals, in this case individuals within this government.

Whether 9/11 truthers mean to (or are naive enough to) refer to the perpetrators of any kind as 'government' is somewhat naive, at best 9/11 was perpetrated by a select few individuals of immense power, to have such power (as silly as this sounds) it is in fact more or as likely such a person exists outside of government, it is also likely that Osama Bin Laden and his merry men did it, however I find this hard to believe, he claimed he never did the bombings, Al-Qaeda has never, ever existed, it has been admitted on well known news media such as the BBC. Bin laden only refered to himself as 'al qaeda' after the bombings, because he knew that is what the West powers were calling his 'group'.

Since, I've not made any assumptions just some constructive conjuration, i'd like to add one for good measure (us 9/11 truthers are a misunderstood bunch), It's likely OSAMA Bin Laden is dead because he can't be remote viewed.

Cheer up, we are not all bad, individuals are your enemy, in groups or alone.

A

`an expected normality is a force just as present as a mistaken one, but in the opposite direction of it in reality`

Yes, there are many versions of what could have really happened on 9/11. Some of those may be honest conjecture, some might be disinformation.

What is much more interesting are the problems with the official story. For example, the 9/11 Commission report doesn't mention WTC7 at all. There is a lot of controversy involving WTC 7. In my opinion it is the smoking gun of the whole thing.

World Trade Center 7 - General info on the building

Video: BBC Reports WTC7 Collapse, 20 Minutes Before it Actually Collapses
(you can see the building still standing in the background behind the female reporter)

Video: World Trade Center 7 collapsing into its footprint, at high speed

Video: Larry Silverstein Admitting To Pulling the Plug on WTC7

This was the building that was not hit by any planes. It collapsed on 9/11 just like the other buildings. Why was its collapse not mentioned in the official report?

Either you believe the official story 100%, or you think there should be an independent reinvestigation!


[edit on 4-9-2009 by Albastion]

reply to post by Swampfox46_1999


Thanks for the information regarding the exercises. why did they take off w/o arming? wouldn't the smart thing be to load it with ammo, take off, and intercept?

I registered thanx to this topic just to say -
ignore OP hes just here to mock You , piss You off and distract You

he shows us some laughtable NatGeo vid (where is center column on that frickin animation? building 7? pentagon?)
wich is designed by peaople like him to fool people especialy new commers who seek information in shock and disbelive.

lets guess where they will look? yes in this topic and they will be guided by this man's idiotic arguments.

in my opinion hes a spook , disinfo traitor.
Ignores any and every evidence and statement .. selecting a few wich have some posibility to be attacked and does that.

lets see next will be hes laugh at me calling him spook.

any way i have 1 positive thing from all of this ... me finally registering lol

p.s sorry for my english i'm polish and never had is in school

reply to post by ugie1028


And take the extra couple hours needed to assemble the ammo belts for the jets and then load them?

reply to post by Swampfox46_1999


ok so it would take time to arm the F-16's so they took off to respond immediately. got it...

OK so i get the story right, sorry if i am asking this question again.

How many planes were readily available on that day?

if there was only a small amount of aircraft, why?

Pathos, my mom also thinks it is horrible that I really think the official story is false. She is 70 and in her reality the US could never do anything like that.

For me, I don't know for certain if the "government" was involved be it a few individuals or a larger conspiracy. I don't know what hit those buildings, and I also don't know that a few men with box cutters are able to pull it off.

What I do know is there is no such thing as coincidence. There are just too many "coincidences" with this, too many.

PUT options where millions were made.

Certain businesses in the towers just happened not to be there.

1.2 trillion missing from Pentagon budget announced 9/10 and the "plane" just happened to hit where records were housed.

Of course the way those buildings crumbled instead of "breaking" at the point of impact.

ID of the so called hijackers just happened to make it while most everything else in the building was pulverized.

OS says no pools of molten metal, but reports and images say yes.

WTC 7, what more needs to be said on that!

These are the ones I can pull off the top of my head. History of government screwing and killing citizens.

Tuskegee experiment, CIA drugging citizens, WMD's that were never found and our war in Iraq, Rick Ross and the CIA bringing crack to LA and the rest of the nation, the internment of Japanese citizens, Native Americans used to mine plutonium, and the list goes on and on.

I would really love to believe the official story, I truly would. The day it happened I was planning on heading to the local red cross to donate blood since I have type B, but there was no need. Even as those buildings were coming down on live television both me and my husband could not believe those planes and the fire did that so quickly and with such precision.

Fear took over the nation and we lost too many precious civil rights as a result of this. Money was indeed made that day from the PUT options alone to say nothing of the obscene profits of war. I do not harbor ill will towards those that believe the OS, and really wish that they would stop vilifying those that do not.

Even the recent Nat. Geo. documentary was more focused on the psychology of "truthers" than on the many, many reasons for our beliefs. There was so much they didn't cover in the documentary that really could have helped people see where we are coming from.

rant over.

reply to post by 7redorbs



Al-Qaeda doesn't exist, and never has??

Al-Qaeda, alternatively spelled al-Qaida and sometimes al-Qa'ida, (Arabic: القاعدة‎; al-qāʿidah; translation: The Base) is an Islamist group founded sometime between August 1988[5] and late 1989/early 1990.

From Wiki.

OK, so everyone is going to jump on Wiki as being unreliable. SO, then edit it! SEE if you can find verifiable sources, and change it, with those sources referenced. I understand that's how Wiki works.

AS TO Al-Qaeda, I can't find the item, but it was in the news just this week, a recent suicide bombing in Afganistan killed a prominent Afghan mucky-muck of some sort....and Guess Who made the claim of responsibility???

NO, not the big Laden....but an Al-Qaeda spokesman took the credit for the group.

Wiki also says, in the article, that it's a small group...but who really knows?

Again, the concept is what matters, and there is little doubt, whatever name you wish to ascribe to them, there are at LEAST certain loose-knit groups out there, of Arabs (what we commonly refer to as "Arab", although I understand it's more complex) who willingly blow themselves up, or recruit willing volunteers to do it.

Anyone remember the EgyptAir Boeing 767 crash in the Atlantic Ocean?

Eqyptian pilot. Suicide. Reason? Not revealed, not that I've heard anyway.

Muslims believe in an afterlife, as I understand. Weird, irrational thinking of course...and that's why it's so dangerous. Their compunction AGAINST suicide may be outweighed by other factors that they use to rationalize the mayhem they perpetrate.

AND, no offense intended to ATS members who are Muslims...I'm talking about the extremists, of course.

reply to post by Albastion


The 9/11 Commission wasn't set up to examine the building collapses. It was set up to establish the background of the events of that day and how the hijackers managed to do what they did.

Then you mention the BBC and its premature report of WTC7's collapse. The news media makes mistakes all the time. Why should that day be any different? I mean, I have a copy of an Extra edition printed off on the late afternoon of 9/11 talking about the car bomb going off at the State Department...oh wait, there wasnt a bomb there that day.......

reply to post by ugie1028


Because in the post Cold War drawdown, it was decided that we only needed 14 armed aircraft for Continental Air Defense. So on that day, over the continent, there were only 14 jets on alert....from Washington State to Florida.

My unit, wasnt a Cont Defense unit. So from the time the word was given, it was about an hour and half before we had armed jets in the air flying CAP over the midwest.