Concluding that 9/11 is a Government Conspiracy is Grotesque

reply to post by Albastion


Thinking someone, or a group of people, have hubris, arrogance, or a desire to feel superior...THAT is an attack?

Nah!! Merely an observation. Not an attack if it's bloody obviously true.

ever hear of believe in your county, and not in your government?

I know the founding fathers wanted to limit government. its in the constitution.

reasons for this attack? more power over the people. using fear to dismantle their rights that THEIR Forefathers had secured when the country was founded.

Look At the federal reserve. they have been the cause for all the economic woes in this country, and abroad. with the attack, it gave powers to the elite to start printing money for the "war on terror" which is more like "the war against the middle/lower class" (robbery)

from rights being stripped, more government, more printing of money to fund wars...

i see ALL possibility of this being planned out by the secret govt in the USA.

dont believe it?

Look at pearl harbor, the Oklahoma city bombing, the arrests done in the USA with the war on terror, etc. (all these had govt officials in the know before the attacks, yet did nothing until after wards)

its all staged, were the audience, and they are (PTB) are making final moves in this chess game to rob the world blind, and have full control over everything.

I was like you once, i couldn't believe my own govt would do such a thing, but the thing is, looking at all the evidence, i came to the conclusion that certain powers in the govt (mainly bankers who profit from wars) are behind most of the wars we have entered in the past 60 years.

Not all govt officials had in the know information at the time, but the ones who did kept a tight lip, and conspired how to work with the impending attack on the towers/pentagon, and use it for their own agenda.

In my theory, the PTB knew about the attacks at least 1-2 months in advanced. knew the targets, and let them roam freely in the states to do their deed. that's why they planted thermite in all the buildings to increase the damage. (this is my theory)

think about it.....

In the end, some govt officials knew of the attack, did nothing because they wanted to use it as a tool to go to war to PROFIT from it, and further their NWO plans.

Originally posted by weedwhacker
reply to post by Albastion

 

Thinking someone, or a group of people, have hubris, arrogance, or a desire to feel superior...THAT is an attack?

Nah!! Merely an observation. Not an attack if it's bloody obviously true.

I appreciate you trying to bait me, but I'm not going to sink to your level.

reply to post by weedwhacker


I have to agree with you about this, it is very true that the truthers movement is full of contradictions, I think the reason this is is because all these so called experts or insiders that are supposedly on the truthers side, well, I think probably 90% or more of it is complete dis-info designed to discredit and and make us look like loons, and they have done a very good job at it. like what john leer says, I believe hes dis info, just like a lot of others, to say there were no real planes, wow, I cant believe some truthers say that, just gives us a bad name.

reply to post by weedwhacker

The NEED to feel "in the know", and therefore superior to all those that haven't "got it yet".

so now the fact that we "are in the know" and you "havn,t got it yet" is our fault?
why thats the most ridiculuos thing i ever heard.

reply to post by Albastion

An ad hominem argument, also known as argumentum ad hominem (Latin: "argument to the person" or "argument against the person") is an argument which links the validity of a premise to a characteristic or belief of a person advocating the premise

Usage example: (Oh...I see one I'm responding to, you accusing me of baiting. WHEN I am doing no such thing!)

In informal logic
In the past, the term ad hominem was sometimes used more literally, to describe an argument that was based on an individual, or to describe any personal attack. However, this is not how the meaning of the term is typically introduced in modern logic and rhetoric textbooks, and logicians and rhetoricians are in agreement that this use is incorrect.

Example:

"You claim that this man is innocent, but you cannot be trusted since you are a criminal as well."

So, seems that while ad hom is generally "To the person", there are modern interpretations of more general 'group' applications. Still, merely pointing out the lack of a person's qualifications hardly counts as an ad hom.

No sense arguing the meaning of the phrase. I stand by my posts, as they are my personal opinion, stated as such. I am not in a formal argument setting, therefore I refute your assertions.

This does show the common tactic employed by "Truth Seekers", though. Attack the messenger, unless the messenger agrees with you.

Why all the attacks on a community who only wants a new investigation into 9/11?

Originally posted by weedwhacker
This does show the common tactic employed by "Truth Seekers", though. Attack the messenger, unless the messenger agrees with you.

Oh, so it was the truthers who started this thread and called you guys grotesque? Compared you to Ahmedinejad and holocaust deniers? It was us who said you have a virus? It was us who called you arrogant?

Well in that case I'm sorry!

Why don't you guys give up, or call some of your smarter friends to help you.

reply to post by newworld

Having pride in one's nation, and criticizing the government are two completely different things. I don't believe the "official" version of the government, but that does not mean I hate the U.S.

now how do you expect people to love this nation when it has such as bad history of hypocrisy and evil?

I have been too busy with the Famine/Farming issue here in the USA to follow 9/11. However after reading up on the Federal Reserve and “Confessions of an Economic Hit Man” I have no trouble see the power hungry men in charge of the USA committing treason.

JOHN PERKINS: Basically what we were trained to do and what our job is to do is to build up the American empire. To bring – to create situations where as many resources as possible flow into this country, to our corporations, and our government, and in fact we’ve been very successful. We’ve built the largest empire in the history of the world. It's been done over the last 50 years since World War II with very little military might, actually. It's only in rare instances like Iraq where the military comes in as a last resort. This empire, unlike any other in the history of the world, has been built primarily through economic manipulation, through cheating, through fraud, through seducing people into our way of life, through the economic hit men. I was very much a part of that....

Q. How closely did you work with the World Bank?

JOHN PERKINS: Very, very closely with the World Bank. The World Bank provides most of the money that’s used by economic hit men, it and the I.M.F.
www.lewrockwell.com..." target="_blank" class="postlink" rel="nofollow">Link

Here is a well documented case of the US Government committing genocide for the moneyed special interests.

....With time, the pioneers learned what the American Indian had known for countless generations: the buffalo were the link to continued life.

In the years following the Civil War, financial and government interests sought to sever that relationship. The belief was that wherever the buffalo roamed, so too did the American Indian, whose very presence threatened the success of westward expansion.

By the 1870s, the U.S. Army was losing one soldier for every three Indians it killed. Railroad barons, whose interests the Army was in large part working to protect, needed to indemnify their transcontinental investments against native intrusion. Texas cattlemen, meanwhile, had already begun driving their longhorns north, looking for new forage, links to the Union Pacific, and access to eastern markets. All parties saw the buffalo, which fed and clothed the Indian, as the key obstacle to dominance.

“When we get rid of the Indians and buffalo,” enthused General Nelson Miles, commander of a garrison near Fort Keogh, Montana, in 1876, “the cattle . . . will fill this country.” Link

[when finished there were about 300 buffalo left in the USA]

This policy of genocide and government experimentation on unknowing private citizens has continued into the 1970's

On the phone, during long marches, occupying federal surplus property, in court fighting for treaty rights -- wherever Indian activists gathered during the "Red Power" years of the 1970s, conversation inevitably turned to the number of women who had had their tubes tied or their ovaries removed by the Indian Health Service.

This was, I heard one woman joke bitterly at the time, a "fringe benefit of living in a domestic, dependent nation."

Unfortunately the US government DOES carry out experiments and genocide on its people.

My mother, who had cancer, was one of the radiation test subjects in the sixties. She was a paying private patient and unaware she was a test subject. She was badly burned in a supposed accident. No wonder the rest of the doctors call her doctor "the Butcher". The hospital was on sixty minutes because of its abnormally high mortality rate. It was a University hospital and "the butcher " said to me he was writing a paper on Mom.

Do I believe the US government could be behind 9/11. YES

reply to post by conar


Because they see it as disrespectful to the families of the attacks...

when it isn't...

if anything it shows respect to them that so many care for them, and are looking for another investigation because all of the holes in the official story.

I can think of many more reasons why some are not able to believe this information.

if i missed anything, please feel free to add.

Why don't you guys give up, or call some of your smarter friends to help you.

reply to post by Albastion


i really like this guy. straight out.brotha

somewhere in the world, a village, is missing it's Idiot!! Hey we found him he's posting on ATS that truthers are grotesque. Better come take him home before wolves devour him.

Originally posted by Pathos

Who said I did not believe politicians can lie, steal, or cheat? What I am asking you people is - "Where is the human logic? Why would a non imperialistic society stage such an event?"

Wow! unbelievable!

So according to you; America is a non imperialistic society?

I rest my case!

Imperialism Definition:

1. The policy of extending a nation's authority by territorial acquisition or by the establishment of economic and political hegemony over other nations.

2. The system, policies, or practices of such a government.

www.answers.com...

Imperialism Definition:

1. belief in empire-building: the policy of extending the rule or influence of a country over other countries or colonies

2. domination by empire: the political, military, or economic domination of one country over another (Does "PNAC" ring a bell?)

3. takeover and domination: the extension of power or authority over others in the interests of domination
cultural imperialism

encarta.msn.com...

Imperialism Definition:

1 : imperial government, authority, or system-

2 : the policy, practice, or advocacy of extending the power and dominion of a nation especially by direct territorial acquisitions or by gaining indirect control over the political or economic life of other areas; broadly : the extension or imposition of power, authority, or influence.

www.merriam-webster.com...


Imperialism is the domination by country of the political, economic, or cultural life of another country or region.

Does the project "PNAC" ring a bell somewhere?

The dollar hegemony dictates the economy of most countries in the world!

Many third world countries are also victims of Economic Imperialism! - exploiting or stealing their natural resources through proxy wars and political manipulation. For example:

'Imperialists' steal Africa's wealth, cause wars

Windhoek, Namibia

Namibian President Sam Nujoma on Monday lashed out against "imperialists" who he said either steal Africa's wealth or engineer wars to prevent the continent from benefiting from its riches.

"Nobody will bring peace to Africa if we don't do it ourselves. Africa must stop living on handouts of imperialist countries," Nujoma told the opening of a parliamentary forum in the Namibian capital.

"Africa has more riches than Europe and America together," he said at the forum of the 13-nation South African Development Community (SADC).

"The imperialists take our resources or make us fight against each other," Nujoma added.

He singled out as an example the Democratic Republic of Congo where fighting reignited over the weekend and criticised members of the forum for not speaking out against the violence there.

www.democraticunderground.com...

America is not soley to blame in Africa though! European Imperialism in Africa is a left-over since the colonial days - and nowadays even the Chinese are active and take part in the fight over African natural resources

But the American Imperialism is to blame for the oppression and exploitation of many underdeveloped countries by installing puppet goverments, rig their elections, or by force removing undesirable goverments for example what they did with: Allende in Chile, Iran, East Timor etc - and many more countries this last century.

Look at the South American countries in 1950 to 1970's for more examples!

What America and her corporations is doing in Afghanistan right now is Imperialism because of the economic interests behind the motives of being there - The Pipelines from the Caspian sea.

Going in to Iraq through "PNAC" was also American Imperialism.

And what American corporations are doing now with GMO food in many countries of the world is disgusting.

Bad Patents, Evil Corporations and the Rise of Intellectual Imperialism

Stealing from the poor to pay the rich Distorted in this way, the patent process followed in the United States is a system whereby the wealthy steal resources from the poor. Instead of a seed belonging to everyone (i.e. “community property”), ownership of that seed is now granted to one entity (a corporation) which can then charge the People for using it. This sort of patenting is nothing more than a fabricated system of ownership that funnels wealth from the hands of the many to the pockets of the few.

No wonder U.S. corporations so strongly favor the U.S. patent system. It is the legal machine by which corporations can strong-arm the masses, stealing not only their present resources but also their future wealth, effectively criminalizing farmers and peasants for daring to plant the same seeds they’ve planted for generations.

It is not surprising, then, that this system of patent protection was invented by power-hungry white men. It is the greedy white men who have invaded the world, committed genocide against the American Indians, wiped out ancient civilizations in South America, enslaved Southeast Asia, drugged the Chinese with Opium, colonized India, annexed Hawaii and subjugated defenseless populations all over the world. Can you guess where it all points back to? The British Empire, of course. No single empire has done more to decimate the cultures, religions and populations of this world than the British Empire. And today, the American Empire borrows its own brand of tyranny and imperialism from the historical actions of the British Empire. (America has created the very same tyranny and cruelty it sought to escape hundreds of years ago…)

Today, these two English-speaking nations (the U.K. and America) continue to invade the world with their junk foods, pharmaceuticals, soda pop, medical systems and exploitive intellectual property laws. The pushing of patents and intellectual property law onto third world nations amounts to a kind of intellectual imperialism And every nation that embraces Western culture finds itself, usually within one generation, diseased, bankrupt and destitute. Its monies have been stolen and exchanged for endless debt to the International Monetary Fund. Its crops have been replaced with seeds patented by Monsanto. Its cultural foods have been replaced with Western processed junk foods, and its People have been feed lies and propaganda about the “superiority” of Western banking, Western medicine, Western capitalism and Western culture.

cotradeco.com...



And please don't get me started on American cultural Imperialism

So do yourself a favor and please wake up my friend! - start researching these subjects and you'll see that many things will surprize you and your perception of the world!

Like someone already said here, start researching: the Military Industrial Complex - that's a good start!

Peace


[edit on 4-9-2009 by Chevalerous]

Originally posted by Barkster

somewhere in the world, a village, is missing it's Idiot!! Hey we found him he's posting on ATS that truthers are grotesque. Better come take him home before wolves devour him.

Gee, with posts like this one ( and many others), I just can't imagine why
some people like me would see "Truthers" as pompous, dogmatic, self righteous, very closed minded windbags blathering on endlessly about baloney they learned on the internet! I just can't imagine it!
But then again, I am ignorant, brainwashed, a sheeple, a disinfo agent,
and all that, being a lesser being! Thats what you get when you disagree with a "Truther"!

[edit on 4-9-2009 by OldDragger]

Originally posted by conar
Why all the attacks on a community who only wants a new investigation into 9/11?

Well it isn't always a pleasant job but if it pays enough someone is gonna step up. Me thinks theres a few buldging wallets in ATS forums.

Originally posted by OldDragger
But then again, I am ignorant, brainwashed, a sheeple, a disinfo agent,
and all that, being a lesser being!
[edit on 4-9-2009 by OldDragger]

Well you said it not me. LWOL The truth is that if I started all the evidence for 9-11 being and inside job it would take all night and at hundreds of pages and still the shills and sheep wouldn't listen so it's easier just to laugh at you and spend time on open minded folks that can sense things aren't right in the land of OZ.

reply to post by Chevalerous


you... are... the MAN!

see its in front of you all.

everything is being controlled by the puppeteers, and tell the people only what the people need to hear in order for them to keep doing what their doing w/o question.

Originally posted by Barkster

Originally posted by OldDragger
But then again, I am ignorant, brainwashed, a sheeple, a disinfo agent,
and all that, being a lesser being!
[edit on 4-9-2009 by OldDragger]

Well you said it not me. LWOL The truth is that if I started all the evidence for 9-11 being and inside job it would take all night and at hundreds of pages and still the shills and sheep wouldn't listen so it's easier just to laugh at you and spend time on open minded folks that can sense things aren't right in the land of OZ.

Thanks for taking pity on me! I find that an endearing quality.
Isn't it kind of a burden being so much more "awake", and dammit, just so much smarter than the nonbelievers. Or is that just part of your superior nature?
Now don't get all huffy! Just wondering!

reply to post by Albastion

Oh, so it was the truthers who started this thread and called you guys grotesque?

You have an issue with the OP? Take it up with him. However, I'd re-read again, the thread title and stuff. THEN, come back and show us where the OP called anyone grotesque.

Compared you to Ahmedinejad and holocaust deniers?

It's called an analogy. MY version of the analogy was to compare "Truthers" to being religious. Is that offensive to you too?

It was us who said you have a virus? It was us who called you arrogant?

I said those things. BUT, again, not in the way you depict.

(Well...yes to the 'arrogant'...it certainly comes across in SOME of the posts, it's quite obvious as you peruse the Boards...)

My use of "virus" was simply a reference to something well-known by most people today as a nature of the Internet. It has been referred to as "viral" because of the ability for information, good AND bad, to spread so readily. It is most commonly referred to as "viral video" phenom....

[Wiki says...]

A viral video is a video clip that gains widespread popularity through the process of Internet sharing, typically through email or Instant messaging, blogs and other media sharing websites.

Really....I'll admit to using excessive hyperbole, but now and then it's necessary to make one's point.

reply to post by watcher2


Except that no one told the military to stand down. The military responded as fast as its then condition, would allow.