Concluding that 9/11 is a Government Conspiracy is Grotesque

Originally posted by OldDragger
Oh boy! You did it now!
You challenged THE BELIVERS!
Notice how often that word comes up in those threads?
Your gonna be told of THE TRUTH told to WAKE UP, that you just are too freaked out by the thought of THE GOVERNMENT doing such a thing.
These folks are as dogmatic as theycome, they hold to their beliefs as does the fundamentalist, they pore endlessly over THE EVIDENCE and must spend days on YouTube doing REASEARCH.
As with all dogmatists, it's really useless to attempt to reason with this crowd. They know stuff you don't, they have evolved beyond the rest of us simpletons, they BELIEVE!!!!!

This is the best post of the damn thread, even the damn fricking day.

After all it for people to accept the fact that a few odd terrorists carried out the attacks would be far to boring, no like all the "truthists", lets call it an inside job...

And in myself and many others my friend, but I don't find it to be what we're really discussing at hand here.

I hope others can come to this thread with respect as well for your beliefs.

Be in Peace ;o)

I think what most of you believers are doing is rationalizing. What you guys cannot handle is knowing that the United States could loose a justified war. Even though parts of the war was lost to negligence, some of you cannot handle the logic behind IRAQ!

Since Bush started up an old (justified) war, your distaste for it has clouded your vision of going to war in the first place.

[edit on 4-9-2009 by Pathos]

because i dont see how a couple guys could hijack a plane i would stop them even if it killed me 9/11 smells like government conspiracy to me all the facts just dot add up

Operation Northwoods

Link to Declassified Operation Northwoods document called "Justification for US Military Intervention in Cuba (TOP SECRET)"

The plan suggests starting a terror campaign in the Miami area and blaming it on the Cubans, blowing up a US ship or commercial aircraft near Cuban airspace and blaming it on the Cubans, or STAGING HIJACKINGS OF COMMERCIAL AIRCRAFTS, controlled by remote control, and blaming it on the Cubans.

This was 1962.

Welcome to the real world.

[edit on 4-9-2009 by Albastion]

reply to post by Pathos


Hi - respectfully I do believe it was government orchestrated, I am also willing to accept that it might not be, however I can't accept the number of professionals in related fields that have come forwards since and said "No expletive way", the various studies of skyscraper fires, architecture etc that all point to a demolition...

As for the money? Maybe not gained, but a hole was covered there... I'm not sure if you're aware of the phenomena of business' going bust that mysteriously catch fire, claim insurance and the reinvigorate themselves...

Originally posted by Pathos
Since Bush started up an old (justified) war, your distaste for it has clouded your vision of going to war in the first place.
[edit on 4-9-2009 by Pathos]

*Coughs* Whether or not you agree with the war being right or wrong, it was not legally justified - the grounds being WMD, which still haven't been found.

Scary animation of 9/11 jet impact reveals truth
Reposting an interesting National Geographic take on the issue.

Scientists at Purdue University and the American Society of Civil Engineers spent two years creating the most comprehensive computer model yet of the impact of an American Airlines Boeing 767 into the North Tower of the World Trade Center on September 11, 2001.

[edit on 4-9-2009 by Pathos]

You keep asking what has been gained and where is the money-
Look up Cheneys connections to Halliburton for a start...
What else was gained through 911?

A western hemisphere siesmic shift towards a fear based "security" society-USA Europe,Australia.
How many CCTV cameras were there before 911?
Were there "free speech zones" before 911?

Read the PNAC document too if you can,which stated that America needed a pearl harbour like event in order to garner support for the wars in the middle east....IE uniting the country by way of some horrific terror event.

PNAC was written a year or 2 before 911 BTW.

Lots was gained by some very sick individuals.

Here is a select part of the Operation Northwoods document that may change your mind.

2. A series of well coordinated incidents will be planned to take place in and around Guantanamo to give genuine appearance of being done by hostile Cuban forces.

a. Incidents to establish a credible attack (not in chronological order):
1. Start rumors (many). Use clandestine radio.
2. Land friendly Cubans in uniform "over-the-fence" to stage attack on base.
3. Capture Cuban (friendly) saboteurs inside the base.
4. Start riots near the base main gate (friendly Cubans).
5. Blow up ammunition inside the base; start fires.
6. Burn aircraft on air base (sabotage).
7. Lob mortar shells from outside of base into base. Some damage to installations.
8. Capture assault teams approaching from the sea or vicinity of Guantanamo City.
9. Capture militia group which storms the base.
10. Sabotage ship in harbor; large fires—napthalene.
11. Sink ship near harbor entrance. Conduct funerals for mock-victims (may be in lieu of (10)).
b. United States would respond by executing offensive operations to secure water and power supplies, destroying artillery and mortar emplacements which threaten the base.
c. Commence large scale United States military operations.

3. A "Remember the Maine" incident could be arranged in several forms:

a. We could blow up a US ship in Guantanamo Bay and blame Cuba.
b. We could blow up a drone (unmanned) vessel anywhere in the Cuban waters. We could arrange to cause such incident in the vicinity of Havana or Santiago as a spectacular result of Cuban attack from the air or sea, or both. The presence of Cuban planes or ships merely investigating the intent of the vessel could be fairly compelling evidence that the ship was taken under attack. The nearness to Havana or Santiago would add credibility especially to those people that might have heard the blast or have seen the fire. The US could follow up with an air/sea rescue operation covered by US fighters to "evacuate" remaining members of the non-existent crew. Casualty lists in US newspapers would cause a helpful wave of national indignation.

4. We could develop a Communist Cuban terror campaign in the Miami area, in other Florida cities and even in Washington.
The terror campaign could be pointed at refugees seeking haven in the United States. We could sink a boatload of Cubans en route to Florida (real or simulated). We could foster attempts on lives of Cuban refugees in the United States even to the extent of wounding in instances to be widely publicized. Exploding a few plastic bombs in carefully chosen spots, the arrest of Cuban agents and the release of prepared documents substantiating Cuban involvement, also would be helpful in projecting the idea of an irresponsible government.

9/11 was not the first time nor will it be the last time innocent people will be put in harms way to further a political agenda. You can villify me, call me names, say i'm crazy ad nauseum, ad infinitum. The official story simply doesn't add up. I love my country but as someone has said the price of freedom is eternal vigilance.

Second:
National Geographic: 9/11 Science and Conspiracy

Do you guys think I would get into this debate without something?

How grotesque and disgusting do you think truthers are now?

Perhaps the grotesque and disgusting ones are the ones you trust so blindly.

The national geographic article is nothing.

Why don't you search for all the errors in the 9/11 commission report? Use the search tool. Either you believe the official story, 100%, or you DO NOT.

I DO NOT believe the official story and if you have any sense in you at all you shouldn't either.

[edit on 4-9-2009 by Albastion]

reply to post by Pathos


The video is good and well presented, there was a thread on here earlier that I can't find now that questioned the validity of it though because it missed out how the basement levels reacted - again, I'm open to being wrong here...

An interesting point (perhaps) might be your reaction to this link...

www.disclose.tv...

Originally posted by Albastion
How grotesque and disgusting do you think truthers are now?

Perhaps the grotesque and disgusting ones are the ones you trust so blindly.

Your acting like my opinion has change. It hasn't.

Originally posted by jokei
reply to post by Pathos

 

The video is good and well presented, there was a thread on here earlier that I can't find now that questioned the validity of it though because it missed out how the basement levels reacted - again, I'm open to being wrong here...

An interesting point (perhaps) might be your reaction to this link...

www.disclose.tv...

That was taken out of context. You have no proof that he is talking about 9/11.

[edit on 4-9-2009 by Pathos]

And so it goes Pathos! Ye damnable sheeple!
I suggest you beat your head against a wall and check back here periodically.
The EVIDENCE PROVES IT!
You must be brainwashed to not accept it!
(See YouTube for details)

reply to post by Pathos

Who said I did not believe politicians can lie, steal, or cheat? What I am asking you people is - "Where is the human logic? Why would a non imperialistic society stage such an event?"

do your own research. the answers you see k are all out there.
i weighed my perception of the buildings falling in way consistent w/
demolition and the other obvious contradictions in the original story.
plus the facts of life being all they do is lie and backstab.
that was enough to make me look a lot closer,and find out that was the tip of a very large iceberg. if you don't have the same kind of analytical mind as i do. or you don't mind being lied to and never knowing the truth
right up to the point your blind sided by your heros. all good w/ me
but i think thats a little grotesque. i can give you credit for one thing though
at least you came up w/ a new adverb for us.



[edit on 4-9-2009 by randyvs]

Originally posted by Pathos

Originally posted by Albastion
How grotesque and disgusting do you think truthers are now?

Perhaps the grotesque and disgusting ones are the ones you trust so blindly.

Your acting like my opinion has change. It hasn't.

Originally posted by jokei
reply to post by Pathos

 

The video is good and well presented, there was a thread on here earlier that I can't find now that questioned the validity of it though because it missed out how the basement levels reacted - again, I'm open to being wrong here...

An interesting point (perhaps) might be your reaction to this link...

www.disclose.tv...

That was taken out of context. You have no proof that he is talking about 9/11.

[edit on 4-9-2009 by Pathos]

Your opinion hasn't changed because you didn't read the document. This thread has been up for less than 10 minutes.

Information pulled from Wikipedia real quick, but backed up by government documents asserting the fact this was a true operation with true intent. Hopefully this will help convince some of you that our government is not, and has not been for a long time, the one with our best interests in mind..

Lets begin with a little background information.

Operation Northwoods, or Northwoods, was a false-flag plan, proposed within the United States government in 1962. The plan called for CIA or other operatives to commit apparent acts of terrorism in U.S. cities to create public support for a war against Castro-led Cuba. One plan was to "develop a Communist Cuban terror campaign in the Miami area, in other Florida cities and even in Washington".

This operation is especially notable in that it included plans for hijackings and bombings followed by the use of phony evidence that would blame the terrorist acts on a foreign government, namely Cuba.

The plan stated:

The desired resultant from the execution of this plan would be to place the United States in the apparent position of suffering defensible grievances from a rash and irresponsible government of Cuba and to develop an international image of a Cuban threat to peace in the Western Hemisphere.

Operation Northwoods was drafted by the Joint Chiefs of Staff and signed by then-Chairman Lyman Lemnitzer, and sent to the Secretary of Defense.

So.. are you still thinking our government would never do something to harm its own citizens? Lets keep going..

Hijacking attempts against civil air and surface craft should appear to continue as harassing measures condoned by the government of Cuba. Concurrently, genuine defections of Cuban civil and military air and surface craft should be encouraged.

Does that sound familiar at all? Remember.. this was drafted by the Joint Chiefs of Staff, as well as being signed by the Secretary of Defense. This is not a "theory", this is FACT.

Lets take a look at a specific section, that to me seems eerily similar to 9/11..

a. An aircraft at Eglin AFB would be painted and numbered as an exact duplicate for a civil registered aircraft belonging to a CIA proprietary organization in the Miami area. At a designated time the duplicate would be substituted for the actual civil aircraft and would be loaded with the selected passengers, all boarded under carefully prepared aliases. The actual registered aircraft would be converted to a drone.

b. Take off times of the drone aircraft and the actual aircraft will be scheduled to allow a rendezvous south of Florida. From the rendezvous point the passenger-carrying aircraft will descend to minimum altitude and go directly into an auxiliary field at Eglin AFB where arrangements will have been made to evacuate the passengers and return the aircraft to its original status. The drone aircraft meanwhile will continue to fly the filed flight plan. When over Cuba the drone will begin transmitting on the international distress frequency a "MAY DAY" message stating he is under attack by Cuban MIG aircraft. The transmission will be interrupted by destruction of the aircraft which will be triggered by radio signal. This will allow ICAO radio[16] stations in the Western Hemisphere to tell the US what has happened to the aircraft instead of the US trying to "sell" the incident.

So, are you still thinking our government always has your best interests in mind? Because they dont. They are a corporation, and like any other corporation they are out to make MONEY and POWER.

Hopefully you research this more, and start to open your eyes to the possibility that everything you were told was a lie.. Hard to believe at first, but I will leave you with a quote that rings true in this situation..

All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.

- Arthur Schopenhauer
German philosopher (1788 - 1860)

Once Wikipedia is entered as evidence, the whole logic behind everyone's 9/11 conspiracies are lost. Now none of the believers have a credible case. You have proven my point. There is no logic to this grotesque theology that 9/11 was staged by our government.

You guys have just lost all credibility.

It does not mater what other evidence you bring to the table, you have tainted sources to support your false claims.

Its over.

[edit on 4-9-2009 by Pathos]