Concluding that 9/11 is a Government Conspiracy is Grotesque

Originally posted by Pathos
Here is one for you all:

What would have been gained?

LADIES & GENTLEMEN of ATS... we got ourselves another Sheep on the forum.

Do not... I repeat, do not attempt to debate the events of September 11th with the ATS poster named "Pathos".

There is a 0% chance of convincing the poster named "Pathos" that the official story of 9-11 is in fact false, regardless of the mountain of evidence you can throw at him.

I honestly believe that Obama could announce that 9-11 was an inside Job in his State of the Union Address and "Pathos" would still choose to live in a world of denial.

Further to the post by ExPostFacto and the one underneath it, what else was gained?

A massively frightened malleable populace... how many of us at the time thought it might be the end of the world? Woke up in the morning, not knowing when or where it might happen next, if it would go to nuclear war?

It scared the crap out of me - and it in some way shape or form touched every single person on the face of the planet. This affected every government in the world and thus their populace((s)?)

Originally posted by Pathos

Originally posted by jprophet420
reply to post by Pathos

 

"Our government" orchestrated pearl harbor. Research it and see for yourself.

Then if you can't admit that don't bother with 911 ever again, you'll just be unable to reach an unbiased conclusion.

Our government provoked Pearl Harbor, but they did not orchestrate the event. As a result of poking around, we were caught off guard by a sneak attack.

No, thats not what happened. The president based a good portion of his election on "we will not go to war in a war on foreign soil", TPTB concocted a plan and went through with it. The plan brought the war to us, our "soil" so to speak, and thats how we entered the war.

Obviously, the whole government wasn't "in on it".

Originally posted by Societalgnorance
To the OP : You need to come to terms with reality.

Think about 9/11 with an unbiased mind and theres only one conclusion. Stop fighting yourself and all of the propaganda thats been beat into your head since a small child and come up with your own educated, unbiased opinion.

My opinion is based upon 300 years of United States history. I think this is one sick and twisted conspiracy.

Originally posted by Pathos

Originally posted by BlackOps719
I find it disturbing that my own government had a direct hand in the slaughter of over 3,000 American citizens for financial gain and strategic purposes.

Ignorance is bliss and most "truthers" (hate that word) would love to believe that these things arent true as much if not more than you. The problem is common sense and having a conscience won't allow it.

You are entitled to your beliefs, but understand that those of us who believe in the 9/11 conspiracy dont do so because it is fun or hip or trendy. We are mostly regular citizens who have been presented with opposing facts that simply cannot be ignored.

What?!?!

Wait. Wait. Financial gain? What did we gain financially?

Ever heard the name Larry Silverstein? Done any research at all?

How about the trillion dollars that went *poof* disappeared into the neather....and the fact that the supposed plane that hit the Pentagon happened to strike the very accounting offices that were investigating this very matter.

How about the billions $ in oil that has been looted from Iraq since our "Operation Enduring Freedom" began?


Edit- not to mention the billions spent on no-bid contracts to Haliburton and the other affiliated corporations

[edit on 4-9-2009 by BlackOps719]

Oh boy! You did it now!
You challenged THE BELIEVERS!
Notice how often that word comes up in those threads?
Your gonna be told of THE TRUTH told to WAKE UP, that you just are too freaked out by the thought of THE GOVERNMENT doing such a thing.
These folks are as dogmatic as they come, they hold to their beliefs as does the fundamentalist, they pore endlessly over THE EVIDENCE and must spend days on YouTube doing REASEARCH.
As with all dogmatists, it's really useless to attempt to reason with this crowd. They know stuff you don't, they have evolved beyond the rest of us simpletons, they BELIEVE!!!!!

[edit on 4-9-2009 by OldDragger]

[edit on 4-9-2009 by OldDragger]

What everyone is saying that we gained financially from Sept. 11th. Hmm...

So, where is the money?

Originally posted by Pathos
I am not sure if some of you get off on this debate. I do not understand how a person could blame a sitting US President for killing 2,000+ of his own citizens. I find it revolting, grotesque, and freakish.

I keep asking myself "What type of human being do you have to be in order to believe 9/11 is a conspiracy?" After pondering this question for a few days, I concluded that there is something seriously wrong with some of you.

I have to admit, trying to find an answer to that very question is one of the main reasons why I come here. I can accept the possibility that the some within the gov't *may* have the ability to do something like this. I just can't accept the possibility that it just has to be in the freakish, bizarro world scenarios these conspiracy people portray it to be. For one thing, why the heck would anyone go through all the work of making a fake aircraft crash site in Shanksville only to have a coverup all the work they did...and if they're going to frame someone, why did they frame that toilet of a country of Afghanistan, rather than Iraq? Nothing they say even makes a microbe of sense.

The nearest I can tell is that these people are so much in love with the idea there's some grandiose conspiracy afoot that they take one step further and actually start hopign there IS a conspiracy afoot. I know this because I haven't encountered a 9/11 conspiracy theorist yet who didn't believe in a host of *other* conspiracies (I.E. the CIA assassinated JFK, the moon landing was faked, and what have you). Pursuing these conspiracies fulfills some inner emotional need they have so how can they *not* see the 9/11 attack as being some gov't conspiracy or another?

If religion is the opiate of the masses, then 9/11 conspiracies are the opiate of the anti-establishment type.

reply to post by jokei


Yes, amazing the money we throw at this issue. Didn't 250,000 people die in the indian sanami?

Originally posted by Pathos
What everyone is saying that we gained financially from Sept. 11th. Hmm...

So, where is the money?

Did you even bother reading my previous post or what?

For beginners in the 9/11 conspiracy study arena, the best place to start, IMO, is by acknowledging what REAL physics can and can't do. What they CAN'T do is completely pulverize (into mostly fine white and gray powder) 2 skyscrapers, in less than, let's very charitably say, one hour, by only the impact of airplanes where the initial fires were extremely oxygen-starved (lots and lots of SMOKE). There have been REAL towering infernos (in Madrid, Beijing etc.) - heavy flames, not smoke - where the fires burned for many hours, and the steel frames remained intact.

I could go on and on, but those who are psychologically-emotionally blocked to certain basic hard facts are most likely to remain so.

reply to post by Pathos


Please read up on what has been termed the Military-Industrial Complex. Events happen, no bid contracts are given out, and the media perpetuates the fear, causing citizens to put pressure on their elected representatives to do something. Then the corporations send in their lobbists to try to get a cut of the action.

Originally posted by BlackOps719

Originally posted by Pathos
What everyone is saying that we gained financially from Sept. 11th. Hmm...

So, where is the money?

Did you even bother reading my previous post or what?

I am asking you for your interpretation of the facts. Where is the money? If that much money disappeared, where is the proof of 'who' gained?

Hi Pathos.

You should do some research on: building 7,the molten pools of steel under the WTC,the WTC security stand down,the NORAD stand down,the "hole"in the Pentagon,911 seismic data,project northwoods.

If you are a logical thinking person,you may find your viewpoint on 911 and your government change somewhat after realizing that their are so many holes in the offical story when compared to reality.

You seem to think your Government has never killed any of its own people before...well apart from any number of war dead how about you have a look at things like:
The American eugenics society(It wasn't Hitlers idea you know..)
The sterilization of black people,native people.
Bio weapon experiments on US soldiers.
Project SHAD
Martin Luther King
MK Ultra.
JFK
The school of the Americas
The Kubark manual
Tim Osmond
CIA drug trade

The list is endless...I defy you to read up on the above subjects,in a rational manner,and come to the conclusion you have a lovley,caring government system who never kills its own people.

Happy Learning now.

Originally posted by Dean Goldberry
For beginners in the 9/11 conspiracy study arena, the best place to start, IMO, is by acknowledging what REAL physics can and can't do. What they CAN'T do is completely pulverize (into mostly fine white and gray powder) 2 skyscrapers, in less than, let's very charitably say, one hour, by only the impact of airplanes where the initial fires were extremely oxygen-starved (lots and lots of SMOKE). There have been REAL towering infernos (in Madrid, Beijing etc.) - heavy flames, not smoke - where the fires burned for many hours, and the steel frames remained intact.

I could go on and on, but those who are psychologically-emotionally blocked to certain basic hard facts are most likely to remain so.

So, you are all physics experts with a Doctrine's degree? You know how architecture is affected by an airplane crash?

So, you guys know how an airplane comes apart from hitting a building at high-speeds?

[edit on 4-9-2009 by Pathos]

reply to post by Pathos

I am not sure if some of you get off on this debate. I do not understand how a person could blame a sitting US President for killing 2,000+ of his own citizens. I find it revolting, grotesque, and freakish

you're not going to be very good at this. you can't even get the
first fact rigfht, even in rounded form. over 3000 would be correct as an estimate.
if you only knew how much i wish i could be like you.politicians that don't
lie, commit treason by lying to congres to wage war. you don't even know
these people you think so highly of.
here let me give you a clue

BRAINWASHED

is a good place for you to start sir. accept this as a possibility for yourself.
and go from there.



[edit on 4-9-2009 by randyvs]

Originally posted by Pathos

Originally posted by Societalgnorance
To the OP : You need to come to terms with reality.

Think about 9/11 with an unbiased mind and theres only one conclusion. Stop fighting yourself and all of the propaganda thats been beat into your head since a small child and come up with your own educated, unbiased opinion.

My opinion is based upon 300 years of United States history. I think this is one sick and twisted conspiracy.

You are aware, that what you learned at university/college/ any school about U.S. history might not necessarily be correct right?

History is written by the winners, parts of it are hidden from us (the world's populace), lies are spread, and the truth is not necessarily what most people believe.

In the U.S., expect your history classes to be biased. And this applies to ANY country; history will ALWAYS be in the side of the ones who are telling the story.

I think more than anything you would not want people to judge/condemn you for a different perspective you have on an event. Perhaps this is more important than anything.

What I find "grotesque" is our inablity to co-operate, understand, and respect each other and our differences. There is nothing grotesque about individuals having a different perspective on 9/11 than you. Can you accept them for who they, and them you?

Perhaps when people stop dividing amongst themselves (especially over issues like 9/11) then we can finally begin to unite and solve larger issues that the goverments are only making worse and also benefitting from at the same time. But that is another matter and perhaps meant for another thread another time.

Find a nice place in your heart where you can just accept people and not condemn them so, they are no less than you. I think more than anything I hope people can see that 9/11 DIVIDED people, which has more benefit than money and a lot of other things people discuss on here.

Find our common ground, find compassion again, because there really are far too many grotesque things going on down here. We needn't be pointing the fingers at each other anymore.

Be In Peace ;o)

Originally posted by randyvs
reply to post by Pathos

 

I am not sure if some of you get off on this debate. I do not understand how a person could blame a sitting US President for killing 2,000+ of his own citizens. I find it revolting, grotesque, and freakish

you're not going to be very good at this. you can't even get the
first fact rigfht, even in rounded form. over 3000 would be correct as an estimate.
if you only knew how much i wish i could be like you.politicians that don't
lie, commit treason by lying to congres to wage war. you don't even know
these people you think so highly of.
here let give me you a clue

BRAINWASHED

is a good place for you to start sir. accept this as a possibility for yourself.
and go from there.

Who said I did not believe politicians can lie, steal, or cheat? What I am asking you people is - "Where is the human logic? Why would a non imperialistic society stage such an event?"

Originally posted by Asmus
I think more than anything you would not want people to judge/condemn you for a different perspective you have on an event. Perhaps this is more important than anything.

What brings out the best in me is the challenge.

[edit on 4-9-2009 by Pathos]