Communism 101

First ill start with the Wiki definition of Communism. I included a few excerpts from the Wiki page for refrence as well.

Communism (from Latin: communis = "common") is a family of economic and political ideas and social movements related to the establishment of an egalitarian, classless, or stateless society based on common ownership and control of the means of production and property in general, as well as the name given to such a society.The term "Communism", usually spelled with the capital letter C, is however often used to refer to a form of government in which the state operates under a one-party system and declares allegiance to Marxism-Leninism or a derivative thereof, even if the party does not actually claim that the society has already reached communism.

Marx posited that communism would be the final stage in human society, which would be achieved after an intermediate stage called socialism, and through the temporary and revolutionary dictatorship of the proletariat.

The word "socialism" came in use about 1840 and both terms were largely interchangeable at the time; the difference between the two terms was largely regional and cultural: In continental Europe "communism" was thought to be more radical and secular than socialism, while British revolutionaries preferred "socialism".

Marx had predicted that socialism and communism would most likely be built upon foundations laid by capitalism in the most advanced capitalist countries such as Germany and Britain.

Its quite obvious that our country (America) is very much at a transitional stage. Of course this was the whole theme that our current president used to get into office.

Some say the current administration is making a B-line toward transforming our current society in America to a more socialist/communist way of living.
Maybe they think they can do it better than the ones who have failed in the past.

Why people hear this and laugh it off or say its just plain crazy in light of the blatant admission/actions of certain White House staff/associates is beyond me. Maybe its a form of denial.?

Its kinda like someone pissing on your foot and you say to them "WTF you just pissed on my foot!" and they say "no I just took a leak" ???


I hope people realize what it means when we began to shift toward these ideals in America. There will be revolution of some kind and people will die. This is not fear mongering this is reality. The main reason is because not everyone wants to give up their current way of life and they will fight tooth and nail to keep from anyone changing that.


Some say the current "emergencies" and the passing of major bills/laws lately must not be overlooked. They are being used together to help get the pieces in place for the big picture. According to some this is not conspiracy theory this is strategy. I do know the people who run this country are not stupid. They consist of think tanks that contemplate every possible angle and figure out how to use it to their advantage.

For reference before we get started I would like to add that I could care less about what color Obama is. I only care about being free and enjoying a life guided by the ideas of our founding fathers that put their name on that great document that shaped our country. Additionally I do not want a revolution or a war or anything else where people die.

Do you believe we are headed to socialism/communism? If yes/no why?
Please school me on Communism and our current transition in America if I'm wrong and help me understand.




[edit on 4-9-2009 by Digital_Reality]

reply to post by Digital_Reality


Red Baiting.

Red-baiting is the act of accusing someone, or some group, of being communist, socialist or, in a broader sense, of being significantly more leftist at their core than they may appear at the outset. The term is used mainly with the intention of discrediting the individual's or organization's political views as dishonest and/or haphazard. The implication in red-baiting is usually that the target represents an ill-intentioned external force which has no proper place in a given political party, coalition, or union

reply to post by schrodingers dog


Im not red-baiting. Try to dig deep and be more creative than that.
2d line.

Originally posted by schrodingers dog
reply to post by Digital_Reality

 

Red Baiting.

Red-baiting is the act of accusing someone, or some group, of being communist, socialist or, in a broader sense, of being significantly more leftist at their core than they may appear at the outset. The term is used mainly with the intention of discrediting the individual's or organization's political views as dishonest and/or haphazard. The implication in red-baiting is usually that the target represents an ill-intentioned external force which has no proper place in a given political party, coalition, or union

Reminds me of McCarthy and his "red scare" of everyone is a Communist.

Good post, SD.


reply to post by Digital_Reality


I am not sure that SD was saying anything more than the definition, he usually means pretty much what he says, and in this day and age of finger pointing, we as a nation need to understand that the blame needs to stop and action instead is necessary.

Are You "Right-Wing Fringe", or "Left-Wing Fringe" and How Will They Push You

The question you should ask yourself is if it is your thoughts on the topic or were you guided there by someone else with an agenda.

Every Time Someone Called You A Fascist, They Might Have Been Right, Is Your Ideology Fascist?

[edit on 4-9-2009 by SpartanKingLeonidas]

reply to post by schrodingers dog


And guess what, if it quacks like a duck and walks like a duck than I'm going to call it a duck! The fact is I'm not convinced either way yet.

Originally posted by schrodingers dog
reply to post by Digital_Reality

 

Red Baiting.

Red-baiting is the act of accusing someone, or some group, of being communist, socialist or, in a broader sense, of being significantly more leftist at their core than they may appear at the outset. The term is used mainly with the intention of discrediting the individual's or organization's political views as dishonest and/or haphazard. The implication in red-baiting is usually that the target represents an ill-intentioned external force which has no proper place in a given political party, coalition, or union

You see SD, I normally am on board with your posts. However, this response is a bit off. Why do I say that? Because there are admitted 'communist' supporters on this administrations staff. That's where I am beginning to feel a bit of a scare. I have, as I have stated over and over, supported this president once he was elected. I said that we needed to give him a chance to prove himself. The problem is that he has built up this group of people around him that have some very COMMUNISTIC and SOCIALISTIC ideals. It's not RED-BAITING at all. It's a legitimate fear at this point I feel only because of the people that are now in charge of a vast amount of money and power in this new government.

Change is truly upon us and the OP brings up a valid question and topic for debate.

reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas


Your right, everything in my post is crazy. Why in the world would people think things like that today?

It is all just smoke and mirrors while the real power grab takes place. By 2002 Foreign ownership of U.S. assets was over 70% of U.S. GDP. Link


Socialism/Communism is a tool of the Central bankers. “What unites the many different forms of Socialism.. is the conception that socialism (or a reasonable facsimile thereof) must be handed down to the grateful masses in one form or another, by a ruling elite which is not subject to their control...” Link I suggest you study up on the Federal Reserve bank. ATS Thread


America has been quietly sold off All that is left is our farmland and the bill designed to transfer ownership has already passed the house. "The only people opposing these bills are regular people because the bills "scare the hell out of [them]." This is some of the industries with over 50% foreign ownership, Source Watch

* Sound recording industries - 97%
* Commodity contracts dealing and brokerage - 79%
* Motion picture and sound recording industries - 75%
* Metal ore mining - 65%
* Database, directory, Book and other publishers - 63%
* Cement, concrete, lime, and gypsum product - 62%
* Engine, turbine and power transmission equipment - 57%
* Rubber product - 53%
* Nonmetallic mineral product manufacturing - 53%
* Plastics and rubber products manufacturing - 52%
* Other insurance related activities - 51%
* Boiler, tank, and shipping container - 50%
* Glass and glass product - 48%
Coal mining – 48%

The Department of Homeland Security says 80% of our ports are operated by Foreigners and they are buying and running US bridges and toll roads. www.alabamaeagle.org...



An analysis of the 2007 financial markets of 48 countries shows the world's finances are in the hands of a few mutual funds, banks, and corporations. This is the first report of global concentration of financial power ..www.insidescience.org...

The funny thing about communism failing is that there was another philosophy that failed just as bad in the real world: capitalism. It did so slightly less spectacular, and a bit earlier (In fact Marx and Engels "Das Kapital" is an attempt to adress the problems of rampant captialism, as seen in england in their time)

Little hint: the reason you can't buy heroin at your local supermarket, is *not* that there wouldn't be any demand, but the government messing with the market.

What SD meant in his post (i think) was that crying "communism!" in the US makes a good portion of the population run in fear, and another gather their pitchforks.
Now: is the US ready for a communist revolution? Doubtful. Is there a proletariat, ready to overthrow ruling class? are those planning on doing so (or talking very loudly about it) inclined to transfer ownership of the means of production to the workers? Any plans for organizing in soviets?

reply to post by Digital_Reality


Could you list for me the Social Democratic countries in Europe or North America that have already become Communist dictatorships? I'm assuming there's quite a few because they've been Socialist Democratic countries for decades now.

I'm just interested to know how many countries there are that have been transformed into Communism due to having socialist-democratic policies.

As far as I can tell, there isn't a single state on the Earth that has transformed into Communism this way.

Besides, the corporations and elite that actually run policy in this country would never let a Communist state develop. You're much more likely to get a Fascist state instead. But even saying America is on the march towards either of those is like starting a trip from New York to California and saying you'll only take one route to get there when you don't even have a map or a compass.

reply to post by debunky


Good post, thanks.

I don't think that our current system is the best by any means. I do however enjoy not living under a dictatorship where people are not free to talk and think freely. I also enjoy not getting my brains blown out in front of my family because my beliefs don't align with the beliefs of others.

Those are some of the things that make people go grab a pitch fork and freak out. Being free is the ultimate goal here. Any encroachment on someones freedom is going to cause them to go into defense mode.

I cant help if communism is not welcomed as a warm and fuzzy term.
For anyone to say not to mention it because it causes people to be afraid is silly. The stigmatism associated with communism is due to its horrible past.

reply to post by Digital_Reality


I cannot speak for anyone other than myself here.

I speak, act, and inspire others, and do not think any way other than I want to.

I do not allow others to influence how I think, period.

reply to post by Avenginggecko


You are right, My point was that there is a social cycle that takes place in country's. This country seems to be at the cusp of a new cycle that may include socialist/communist ideology's. History shows that the coming of a socialist/communist cycle could be a bad thing for those that do not agree with it.

reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas


So do you think a change to fascism or communism/socialism would be a positive change for America?

I think we could improve on the current system instead of adopting something else personally.

I'm not baiting you BTW this is just a question!

Originally posted by Avenginggecko
reply to post by Digital_Reality

 

Could you list for me the Social Democratic countries in Europe or North America that have already become Communist dictatorships? I'm assuming there's quite a few because they've been Socialist Democratic countries for decades now.

I'm just interested to know how many countries there are that have been transformed into Communism due to having socialist-democratic policies.

As far as I can tell, there isn't a single state on the Earth that has transformed into Communism this way.

Besides, the corporations and elite that actually run policy in this country would never let a Communist state develop. You're much more likely to get a Fascist state instead. But even saying America is on the march towards either of those is like starting a trip from New York to California and saying you'll only take one route to get there when you don't even have a map or a compass.

What about the current people making the decisions? According to Conservative talk show hosts they are all pushing for a communist way of life.

Are they just making stuff up and crazy loons? Most of what Ive been hearing I have researched and it has been right on the money.

The new crap with the Van Jones issue is pretty scary to be honest.
My beliefs do not align with his and he is there making decisions despite not being voted into office or approved by the people.

reply to post by Digital_Reality


I do not support any of the ism doctrines.

Fascism? Hell no.

Communism? Hell no.

Stalinism? Hell no.

Leninism? Hell no.

They all lead to the same eventual ritual of leadership which I oppose.

Dictatorship.

reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas


Well then we are on the same page. Do you see us going down that path currently? The ism path, if you will.

reply to post by Digital_Reality


I believe the world at large is screwed because not enough people get out of their beliefs :

It's all about me

And instead get outside and make the change they want to see happen.

Whether you agree with this Administration, or do not, or even the last one for that matter, doing something more than watching Monday Night Football and bar-hopping, or having a Tupperware Party and selling Avon is what it is going to take.

If you disagree with the way the country is heading, go run for office, if you disagree with your City Council, write a letter stating as such, if you want to change your individual financial situation, start your own business.

Communism, Socialism, McCarthyism, is all a bunch of crap if you ask me.

No one can make you do something you do not want to do, unless you let them.

No Diva's Allowed


[edit on 4-9-2009 by SpartanKingLeonidas]

Having lived under a Socialist Labour government I can assure everyone that socialism and communism are worlds apart.

Communism like Facism are far too extreme they are dictatorships, whether the UK and the USA are heading that way only time will tell..I doubt it very much because in todays technicological age we are far more than ever able to group together in protest. Even China has had to change be it a very small step at a time to become part of the Democratic world to survive.
I doubt there is a true Democrate country on this planet we have to opt for the lesser of the evils.

Originally posted by Digital_Reality
reply to post by debunky

 

Good post, thanks.

I don't think that our current system is the best by any means. I do however enjoy not living under a dictatorship where people are not free to talk and think freely. I also enjoy not getting my brains blown out in front of my family because my beliefs don't align with the beliefs of others.

Those are some of the things that make people go grab a pitch fork and freak out. Being free is the ultimate goal here. Any encroachment on someones freedom is going to cause them to go into defense mode.

I cant help if communism is not welcomed as a warm and fuzzy term.
For anyone to say not to mention it because it causes people to be afraid is silly. The stigmatism associated with communism is due to its horrible past.

A good part of that stigma is due to propaganda though. Remember Mc Carthy? And later of course there was the whole cold war thing.

Marx and Engels sure didn't advocate shooting people. They propsed that the communist world revolution would happen because people would see how much better socialism (and later communism) was. No more 9 year olds working in mines, because their hands are sufficiently small, shouldnt only convince parents!

If we are talking communism (and not stalinism of fashism) a ruling class would never want to institute that. (The whole release the means of productions thing, wich is a corner stone doesn't sit to well with them) It would have to be a peoples revolution to qualify. And I don't see that happening anytime soon in the US. And i don't think you do either.