Criminals...Throw away the key?

I did a thread kinda like this b4 and here was the answer that stopped me dead in my tracks so I will post it here.
Care of pex421 (who helped me deny ignorance that day)

Bah, until prison becomes an effective rehabilitory system EVERYONE deserves to be protected from it. There is a purpose for punishment, and that purspose is NOT "to inflict pain upon those who harmed others" it is to help them learn a better way to be. Our prison system, on the other hand, chews people up and spits them back out much worse for society than they went in.

Point number two is that I am a psyche worker, and i deal with children. I often see children who have sexually abused other children, some perpetrators as young as 7. I HAVE seen the massive amount of how much this is a cycle, how most of those perpetrators had been raped in their youth, and they reenact that out upon other victims...this is a common human pattern, and often the perps are victims as much as anything else. Perhaps this is easier for me to see than others because the "perps" i deal with are 7, 8, and 9 year olds that also cry for their mothers and are scared of monsters under the bed at night, while they clutch their teddy bears. The humanity is there, its just lost in the confusion and pain of events they went through themselves.

Point number 3 is that in our justice system, 18 year olds having sex with their 16 year old lovers are categorized the same way that violent serial rapists are, as are, apparently, 14yo girls who take pictures of themselves naked on their phone and text it to their boyfriends....so until this also is cleared up, YES our sex offenders deserve protection.

There is a name for punishment for the sake of punishment, and without hope of redemption. That name is sadism. As any thinking human knows, vengeance harms the soul of the avenger much as the original crime harmed the soul of both the perpetrator and the victim.

reply to post by AgnosticX


Idiot American parents who don't know how to spank their stupid kids are the real criminals to society.

Well, I believe it was terrible for them to take 2 years of your life away from you, you hurt no-one and simply fining or taking your # would have been enough.

The system couldn't tax your job so they kicked your ass, and taught you a lesson. Its not the way it should be, but its what happens here.

I know some people who waste their entire lives on mary jane, I just hope your not/weren't like that.

reply to post by jd140


Your post scares me.

Dope pushers getting 25 years......just a touch draconian.

You want to know the way to stop the problems with drugs-LEGALISE THEM. That should stop most of the violence with the gangs(destroys profit)+people will be able to get help easier. Add to that freeing up prison space.

People can get drugs anywhere nowadays-prison especially, quite ironic really. Yet we stubbornly keep on fighting the the War on Drugs, actually its not really a war because wars END.

Originally posted by AgnosticX
reply to post by jd140

 

Edited to add-How did drug dealers cost you 7 years of life with your father?

Edited to also add- I know I made some bad desicions(some I regret,some I don't), but at that age who really knows what they're doing could affect the rest of their life?


[edit on 1-9-2009 by AgnosticX]

[edit on 1-9-2009 by AgnosticX]

My dad was a ranch foreman on a 3000 or so acre ranch. 1000 of which was unused. My uncle owned the ranch. Turns out that he was growing 500 acres of dope and using illegals to work it. My uncle, in the process of making a deal, named my dad as one of the main guys involved.

When My dad was arrested he was teaching me how to milk a cow. 20 or so government vehicles raced down the road, about 50 guys with some impressive firearms jumped out and told my dad he was under arrest.

My uncle testified that it was my dads idea to use illegals to work the fields. So my dad ended up with about 10 years if I remember right, I was 5 at the time. He ended up serving 7 because he opted to go to a halfway house.

You can spin your story however you want. Blame it on the laws, blame it on your enviroment, blame it on being poor heck, blame it on the rain. I don't care, immoral or not, you broke the law. You saw my list of tougher sentances, if it was up to me you would still be in jail.

Originally posted by mblahnikluver
reply to post by jd140

 

Wow that is a bit harsh on the sentences. So by your standards quite a few people I KNOW should be in prison for 25-life. That sure would take up a lot of prison space. I know many cops and many of them think busting for things like pot is ridiculous. I know many who usually just take it from the person and let them go and believe me that scares a lot of them into never doing it again. It seems to me you have never been in hard situation where you had to do what you had to do to survive or provide. I guess for me this has personal meaning since I understand where the OP is coming from or maybe I just have a heart and understand nobody is perfect and everyone makes their own choices. I am not one to judge on how someone chooses to live even if it involves selling drugs.

You assuming I have never been in tough situations has indeed made you look like an ass.

I already stated that my post would not be a popular one. That should show you that I really don't care if people like it or not.

reply to post by Chilled Zen


I'm glad it scares you.

Now imagine you are a dope pusher and that was the law. It would make you think twice about standing on a street corner or carrying it in your car.

Originally posted by eldard
reply to post by AgnosticX

 

Idiot American parents who don't know how to spank their stupid kids are the real criminals to society.

You have it backwards. Abusive Parents create criminals of their children. Violence always leads to more violence. Violence is passed down from Parents to Children. Your Parents likely beat you and their Parents likely beat them.

reply to post by jd140


Ok I overreacted, but respectfully I disagree with you.

So with all these dope pushers getting 25 years how could the prison system support that? Its quite full already + people will still want drugs,the market will still be there.

reply to post by AgnosticX



What matters is what you do from now forward.

Two things that a mentor told me to help me straighten out my life nearly 30 years ago:

- Stop trying to beat the System and learn to use the System.

- If you want to be successful, stop getting your advice from broke loosers and start associating with successful people and listen to them.

I'll add to that, stop making excuses and stop using your past for an excuse.

I fail to see the point. You were a drug dealer who got arrested and thrown in jail. Before you tell me how selling pot is victimless crime go and read your story again and see what good drugs did for you. What about the people you sold drugs to? Don't you think they ended up in trouble with the law too? "the system" did not break up your family you did the second you decided to break the law.

Im not saying the legal system is perfect but we all know how it works. You break the law and you are going to have to pay a fine or go to jail. No matter how dumb the law is we all know the rules of the game here.

One problem i have with the legal system is sex offenders have to register and go door to door and tell everyone. Dope dealers, who i think can screw a kid up just as bad or worse than a child molester get off pretty easy.

[edit on 1-9-2009 by zaiger]

Not seen my two sons for 18yrs but I have paid every penny asked for the same time, my own home life had to take a back seat for the last 18yrs just so I could make the payment required every month.

I didn't decide to make a quick buck selling drugs to help me by, I worked every day offered and then some.

You break the law knowingly then you get what you deserve, you ask should criminals be locked up and the key thrown away, my answer to you is damn straight.

What good are you and any other criminal to society, so you have had a hard time of it, tough luck matey even those of us who go to work everyday have enough to deal with without some two bit criminal making our lives even harder.

Throw away the key.............that would just be the start in my book

well, i know what you mean, what we do under the circumstances can sometime be extreme to the majority. i'm sure you're not a bad person but not all of us can understand. your family was not there for you and if you mess up, nobody is going to be there to help you. trust me, i know what its like to be on your own at a young age, i was out there at 16. but i also learned a lot from it. people are fake, they use you until you have nothing left to use. nobody really give a damn about you, and you get to see how really messed up EVERYONE is.

you know whats really annoying? when the kids with a home talk about cars, girls, camping, school, trips to disneyland etc..... you hate them because you can't have what they have. and when they get older, they want you locked up for life because you stole a bag of beef jerky. what these people don't realize is, we need people like you, many families can be fed. prisons offer a lot of jobs, and the jobs in there pays very good. someone has to be the bad guy, unfortunately that bad guy was you. they're just hateful because they do not have what it takes to do what you do, they just don't have the courage and nerve for it so they don't understand it.

don't worry man, these people can say what they want but you and i know for a fact when the shtf, these same fruitcake fairies are going to be the first ones to eat their children....naw im kidding.

[edit on 1-9-2009 by DOADOA]

Sorry bud those where the choices you made now you need to deal with the consequences.

You say you never hurt anyone.....How many people are killed in gang/drug violence everyday? While you may have not pulled the trigger yourself, your participation in selling it is what drives the demand and others to kill for it.

How do you know that some worker in a pot field down in guadalahopa didnt try to steal a little bit of the weed that was supposed to be shipped to your supplier wasnt caught and shot and left for dead? You cant.

Smoking weed isnt a violent crime true, but the drug trafficing market is. Thus smokers and dealers are the fuel thats feeding the fire, because without demand their is no supply.

Originally posted by jd140
reply to post by Chilled Zen

 

I'm glad it scares you.

Now imagine you are a dope pusher and that was the law. It would make you think twice about standing on a street corner or carrying it in your car.

what? were you late for your salon appointment? didn't know what to wear maybe? lol

I too have noticed lately that people are leaning toward caring less and less about people who have committed crimes, and screaming "Throw away the key", as the OP says. The problem lies in the fact that the majority of the public doesn't hear stories like this. They read the news and hear about drug raids, they hear about "So and so was involved in a drug dealing ring," and people conjure up images of gangbangers running amok with AK-47's mugging people for money to but more drugs to divide up and sell. The majority of people see the worst possible scenario as the only possible scenario. The news doesn't report stories like the OP mentioned. Little to no feeling or emotion is conveyed in a news story covering these types of topics, and if there is any, it is usually directed in such a way as to further demonize the alleged criminals.

I am not a drug dealer, nor do I take drugs (other than Grandpa's old cough medicine ), or have any special place in my heart for those who do either. But to throw somebody in jail for life because of something like selling marijuana is comepletely overkill, and let's face it, it's just another strain on our tax budget. I believe there are far more pressing matters that need attention.

For example, here in Seattle there was a beloved man who everybody knew as the "Tuba Man". He was always found playing his tuba outside of Safeco Field. He never begged for money, people just gave it to him because he was friendly and doing what he loved and sharing his music with passerbys. Last year, there was a gang of five minors that decided to beat him to death and rob him at a bus stop. Guess how long they are in jail (juvie, at that) for? I'll give you a hint. It's less than 40 weeks.

Our judicial system is so backwards it's not even funny.

I know some people that have been thru the system and from what I have seen, its really just up to the individual to change.

In jail, there's not really anything that helps you want to change other than the fact that your away from friends and family and are losing time on your life, plus a big X on your record for jobs and such.

The people I know that have been thru rehab say, "It will help, but only if you truely want it." Ive been people come out and go right back to the same things they were doing in very short time.

I heard a saying somewhere that went something like this "In this society, if you mess up once, everyone will think you will mess up many more times no matter what you do."

I believe we need a new system for non-violent offenders. Dont keep them in there with killers and robbers. I would say more treatment facilitys and tougher probation/parole sentences, but not so harsh on their recored. No more felonys that stick with you for the rest of your life just for having a tiny amount of coke/ anything else.

Nobody should be put in jail for drug crimes.

Everybody has the right to put whatever drug they wish into their own body. What they put in their body, is a complete personal decision.

If drugs were legalized, the problems and disadvantages would come to the surface, and our jails would be free to fill up with the child molesters.

They're would be no, the big bad, the forbidden, it would be legal, expensive, and totally taxed. People will be able to see what's wrong with each drug much easier than now. We would also be much more educated on the subject.

Keep the jail for real crimes.