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Political Blame Game Ideology : It's Your Fault

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posted on Aug, 22 2009 @ 11:52 AM
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The culture of corruption within Government is implicitly direct to the proportion of the ineptitude of those people within Government actually governing over to begin with, this meaning of course that in essence the mass of society itself is so ignorant in knowing how to stop this flood of corruption that they have in essence given up trying, or think that they have it down through voting that person out of office, but what of the politician who gets into office who knows how to play the game by getting lobbyists to pay for various types of assistance to stay in office and cannot get thrown out unless they go against the very people who in essence hold their financial leashes of control?

SkepticOverlord’s trip to Washington D.C. is no surprise to me, not that he went, but the response of the politician was absolutely no surprise to me to say the least, because to politician’s this is all a giant game of getting theirs and screwing the public, in essence they know they can get a paycheck and to Hell with John Q Public and Jane N Voter in the end, because after they get into office, whether they had assistance getting there or were truly voted in to begin with, as long as they “play the game” they can keep the ball of corruption rolling in keeping up appearances that they are in fact doing their job. Some would decry the answer Bill was given as corruption itself or that this just is not fair but what got the system to that point to begin with really?

I know the simple answer to this of course because I have studied politics for all of my life and it is quite simple in the explanation as it is in the decision of who did it to begin with, the reason why as well as the reason why it can never be stopped. Are you ready for the answer because it will shock you and might just piss you off to hear it? The answer as to why this political corruption is allowed to continue and multiply ten-fold every time some idiot gets into office is as follows :

You let it happen

Yes, you, you’re the one who let it happen to begin with, you are to blame.

You forgot that television distracts you from the events within politics because you would rather watch the Super Bowl or World Series than C-Span and know exactly what Government is up to at all times.

You forgot that alcohol lowers your inhibitions so you do something stupid and wind up in jail.

You forgot that wrestling is fake and is meant as entertainment as an illusion to distract from reality.

You forgot what it means to actually give a damn about a cause and fight for it tooth and nail, politically.

You forgot that looking good in a hot car is not as important as the good gas mileage you should be getting, using it instead as a image enhancer instead of transportation from Point A to Point B, being a tool and instead you became the tool.

You forgot that politicians will say anything and everything just to get into office, anything but the truth.

You forgot that you like to bitch, whine, and complain about Government, instead of getting behind the podium yourself.

You forgot that smoking weed is less important than the criminality of the action whether you believe in it or not which led to, or eventually will lead to your arrest and discrediting yourself, because you became a convict and are not a victim to the system but a victim of your own stupidity.

You forgot to get off your round bottom, and quit acting like a square peg, and fit into the round hole.

You forgot to get out there and vote for someone, anyone, even if it was Garfield so that the other guy would not win when you did not want the lesser of two evils.

You forgot your real voice and as well forgot how to stand up and question authority when it is incorrect, wrong, or salaciously criminal, instead of just reading about it.

You forgot to log off of ATS and actually go about getting into a political office yourself because you defeated yourself into believing it is just too difficult.

You are to blame whether you want to admit it or not, you, yes you reading this, but it is not too late for you to change all of those things above and actually get off your collective keister’s.

So, the question is, are you just going to post a comment here and bitch at me, and go back to perusing ATS threads, or are you going to go educate yourself in how to get into politics, how to defeat a lobbyist who approaches you, how to defeat someone who finds that skeleton in your closet and intends to blackmail you to vote for their bill sitting on the House floor?

You see, I have been on here at ATS for heading on four years now, and among other things I actually read books which support the thoughts I spread out here for the online world to see, not just some often propaganda laced or propaganda filled “news” website, say for instance Alex Jones, nothing against the man but he’s your only source you are far off the margin and in for a rude awakening, but actual technical manuals on how the military is set up, how Law Enforcement works, books on the Central Intelligence Agency, written from various perspectives, books on politics and how to get into them, books on forming non-profits in order to form a collective business that will positively affect the world, I joined the Boy Scouts of America in order to practice those things in a manner and through that have gained experience immeasurably in the “politics of politicking” as the saying goes, I write on various topics and commit my thoughts to actions.

I have seen many people here on ATS I like and share view points with and some I would rather not ever hear speak in public let alone an online forum, but when push comes to shove, I have not heard one American citizen do anything more than bitch, whine, gripe, and complain about the change they want to see, or the wrong they want righted, or about the politician who is corrupt and they do not get out there and win that politician’s seat. I have a wide view of the problem, seeing both the finite details as well as the bigger picture, and I can see some really interesting thoughts on Government here on this fine website, but over all I have yet to have seen anyone actually take a step in the right direction towards becoming a part of the bigger picture itself.

I guess in essence I am telling you that if you are not a part of the solution then you are a part of the problem.

So, bottom line here, folks, put up or shut the Hell up.

Voting is not the end of your resources to get someone in or even out of office it is the first step only.

Knowing what happened is just not enough, even combined with informing someone who is not in the know like you.

Hearing about something from someone and sharing it just is not enough anymore.

Writing to your Congressman or Congresswoman, while is a good thing, you are more than likely going to get a form letter reply, unless you make it too overwhelming to ignore and follow it up with sending it onto a newspaper for comment.

Calling your local politician is going to get you through the runaround maze of polite requests to call again or set an appointment, unless you just happen to luck out.

Protesting will get you some attention but because of the bias of media you have to watch out for the slant or spin they put on it.

I have only heard of one other ATS’er, who like myself has spoken about the possibility of going into politics and I gave him a bunch of suggestions, website references, book suggestions to read and whatnot.

I have started my public platform right here on ATS in all of the threads I speak on, sometimes short and sometimes at length, without breaking the terms and conditions I might add.

So, what’s your reply? Am I going to get some nonsense answer or am I going to get an excuse?

Did your dog eat your documentation you were about to submit to go into office?

Did an alien beam it up to their mother-ship so that they could peruse it and never returned it?

Did it fall through a wormhole and go through to another dimension where it is turned into a Constitution?

Did it jump in your car and run away with wife or husband because you just weren’t up to keeping it in check?

Perhaps Bigfoot stole it when you were out and about when you forgot your camera that one damn time?

I mean it here folks and I mean to get to the bottom of this because I am not going to be the only ATS’er who makes a difference for their country, and I am not going to give you the excuse of waiting for me to enter politics and see how I fare, you need to get into politics with me and with other ATS’ers instead of being a bitching, whining, complaining, excuse-giver here on a forum where the real world is only a mouse-click away.

I am not suggesting you join some group here on ATS, because that would be contrary to the terms and conditions, however I am suggesting that your time on here might be better spent than being divisive and blaming the other guy on the other side of the political aisle from you, other than blaming the politicians in office, other than blaming the Government itself, other than blaming anyone else in the entire world.

You have no one to blame but yourself, so how about you get over yourself and get out there and enter into the arena that is politics and possibly make that change, possibly make that difference, possibly beat these idiots at their own game where politics is just about what they can get for them and where you might actually change the flow of the stream of stupidity flowing out of Washington D.C., Capitol Hill, and the White House.

I keep hearing how people want to rise up and pick up their guns and “take care of business”.

Why not rise up together as a whole across America and every citizen simultaneously run for a political office?

I bet the Government would pay attention then and I sure as Hell bet a majority of the politicians would crap their pants.

And, here’s the best part, they cannot do a single thing about that either.


Why you might ask?

Well, you’re not threatening violence, you’re not rioting, you’re not protesting, you’re not building a bomb, you’re not holding a rifle, you’re not causing mischief, you’re not doing a lot of things they can retaliate against, and the best thing of all, you’re not doing a damn thing illegal, so it’s on the up and up.

Why not instead of telling the man to stick it and only have one voice heard, instead collectively tell them to get the Hell out of office and make room for someone who means to actually do their job?

Now wouldn’t that just beat all that you might actually beat them at their own game and get to win doing the right thing for the right reason at the right time?



[edit on 22-8-2009 by SpartanKingLeonidas]




posted on Aug, 22 2009 @ 12:03 PM
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reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas
 



You have no one to blame but yourself, so how about you get over yourself and get out there and enter into the arena that is politics and possibly make that change, possibly make that difference, possibly beat these idiots at their own game where politics is just about what they can get for them and where you might actually change the flow of the stream of stupidity flowing out of Washington D.C., Capitol Hill, and the White House.


Best paragraph I have read today.


Good thread, and everything you said is true IMHO. To much blaming and not enough action. But we also must remember sometimes taking action (sometimes at any level) may be impractical at the time. And as far as any MAJOR change goes, if you run for a major office and go against one of the main party lines, well good luck getting elected or re-elected. I hope this current paradigm changes, I really do. But like you said, really the best way is for everyone to attempt to make a change. Another good non-partisan political thread SKL.



posted on Aug, 22 2009 @ 12:10 PM
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reply to post by jkrog08
 


Thanks jkrog08, I appreciate the sentiment and comment as well.


I'm just fed up with the whiners here on the boards, the cry-babies, and do-nothing people.

It seems that all they want to do is whine, cry, and bitch about the change, instead of getting out there and do something about it.

All the people want to do is pick up guns and commit violent acts...

How about do something, legally, and make that change?

How To Overthrow Your Own Government, Legally and Without Violence, In Order To Survive

All the people want to do is gripe and whine...

How about actually submitting something to the White House?

My Contribution To Open Government Directive

All the people want to know is why the economy is falling...

How about pick up a damn book about the topic?

The Creature from Jekyll Island : A Second Look at the Federal Reserve

[edit on 22-8-2009 by SpartanKingLeonidas]



posted on Aug, 22 2009 @ 12:10 PM
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Excellent thread, most people can name at least 100 footballs easily, but can barely name 3 Senators or congressmen for the their county. And remember that Major who got beat up for saving that women from a man with the pipe? Well it turns out that guy didn't even know the man who he beat up was Tom Barrett, the Major. Ignorance before knowledge I suppose...

Star and Flag.



posted on Aug, 22 2009 @ 12:15 PM
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reply to post by TheMythLives
 


You are correct, TheMythLives, it seems ignorance before intelligence is the standard answer here in America anymore, and I am beginning to wonder if it is in fact infecting ATS as well with the apathy I see daily on here.

I am beginning to get mad as Hell at the walking apathy and the crawling ignorance I see spreading throughout our nation and the complete ignorance on Capitol Hill that just keep rolling on as if nothing will stop it.

You know, a few months back, I met the third most powerful Senator at a dinner, shook hands with him, and had my picture taken with him.

I actually got out there and met a Congressman.

Imagine that, there's Bill, or SkepticOverlord, as many here know him, and myself now who have met Congressmen.

[edit on 22-8-2009 by SpartanKingLeonidas]



posted on Aug, 22 2009 @ 06:12 PM
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I should have paid more close attention. Reposting reply.


Originally posted by SpartanKingLeonidas
reply to post by SkepticOverlord
 


You know, Bill, I am beginning to get pissed off, not at the Senators or Congressmen, but at apathetic American's and ATS'ers.

It is not only the systems fault, it is the people who let it continue as usual.

That would be the American people who will not get out there and do something.

[edit on 22-8-2009 by SpartanKingLeonidas]

Around 2:00 am last night, I was watching the movie "The Dark Knight". If you pay really close attention, the movie has an excellent life lesson about corruption. I cannot believe I am going to use Batman as an example.

Okay, here goes. In order to fix the corruption in government, you would have to walk the fine line between right and wrong. Thousands of people would have to be driven towards an orderly insurrection, which upholds the rule of law (constitution) by reacting in shades of gray. Symbols (leaders) are those who can stay within the confines of law, but they are not afraid of crossing the line through self-sacrifice. Many-many people in the United States fear loss. If the government were to use someone's family as bait, people would give in to the pressures of empathy. Real leaders understand one simple thing, "If you try to save everyone, you will loose everyone in the process." Once the first person dies on either side, my fellow Americans will give up the war. They fear loss to such a point that it has made them complacent. We are able to hide behind those laws that give us freedom, but the majority are afraid to defend them when applicable.

Here is another kicker. If the United States entered into a revolution, the bills you get in the mail will not stop. As a result of being too busy fighting the war, you end up loosing the shirt off your back. Banks will liquidate assets, people will be arrested for not paying bills, taxes, etc... Its a conundrum for all Americans. You would have to fight both the government, the private military, and corporations on all fronts. Not many people are willing to take a leap.

Checkmate. People will give up a war for a hot dinner, clothes, and the securities that are provided by the government. Not many people are willing to sacrifice it all for the greater good.

Here is another conundrum. Even though the government cannot implement a government runed military in the States, they can send in a corporate runed military. While it might be a direct violation of the Deceleration of Independence, the government will privately authorize such enforcement.



posted on Aug, 22 2009 @ 10:36 PM
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Is this a conspiracy board or not? Why not create our own conspiracy?
using electoral-vote.com... as a baseline

Tough races
Colorado, Connecticut, Florida, Illinois, Kentucky, Louisiana,
Missouri, Nevada, New Hampshire, North Carolina, Ohio

Easy for Dems
Arkansas, California, Delaware, Hawaii, Indiana, Maryland,
New York, New York, North Dakota, Oregon, Pennsylvania, Vermont,
Washington, Wisconsin

Easy for Reps
Alabama, Alaska, Arizona, Georgia, Idaho, Iowa, Kansas, Oklahoma,
South Carolina, South Dakota, Utah

I think a businessman/woman with an engineering degree would make a great president. They could do process charts and with a business background know where to cut. But what about the senate?
What kind of party would it be and what would be the platform?
Who could we push (new) and who could we subvert?
Anyone want to start a conspiracy instead of talking about others?



posted on Aug, 23 2009 @ 01:02 PM
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reply to post by Pathos
 


I know what you're referring to and far too much of America has slipped into the malady of "I have to work, I cannot focus on anything else" which only reverts later to apathy.

I know that for a fact, I have been there quite too literally in my past, work, work, work.

As for using Batman or the Dark Knight as a reference there is no shame in that whatsoever.

I am someone who walks the fine line between right and wrong, figuratively and literally.

I was taught, read, and lived the Art of War, and turned that into the Art of Peace, for myself, spotting causes of strife and inculcated division and by using conflict de-escalation can bring together those who are divided against themselves.

I tend to see everything through the eyes of war and tactics, and I do mean literally, and see how to stop the war of divided minds in everything I do.

I loved your post as well as the reference to the Dark Knight.

And yes, I believe the Government would love to have quasi-military/quasi-civilian run military, because F.E.M.A. is that exact template for the structuring system and Blackwater/Xe is the implementation of that as well as all of the other "private military contractors" (a mercenary is a mercenary, white-washing a turd does not make it less a turd), and as well there has been a large rise of civilian organizations that were inculcated into cooperating with and being semi-deputized into Government work in the years since Bush took office.

I have been watching and I do not like what I see one bit.



posted on Aug, 23 2009 @ 01:07 PM
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reply to post by Doctor G
 


This is a conspiracy theory website, meaning people who speak of conspiracies, like J.F.K./Oswald, Bush stealing both elections, and for those who do speak on them, U.F.O.'s, this is however not a "conspiracy" website, meaning we are not hear to create conspiracies themselves but expose them for what they are.

Government fraud in action.

To "conspire" here within the bounds of ATS, would both break the terms and conditions of the website, getting you warned and or kicked off of it, as well would be the pot calling the kettle black in that it would be the ultimate hypocrisy.

I do like what you had to say as well as the thought on that, but we as citizens have to be careful and not break the laws, even when we know our Government is doing just that, like Pathos suggested in the previous
post I answered, in "walking the fine line" of self-sacrifice.

If I may suggest, you would like the thread below, because I suggest legally doing exactly what it sounds like you were referencing within your post.

How To Overthrow Your Own Government, Legally and Without Violence, In Order To Survive

[edit on 23-8-2009 by SpartanKingLeonidas]



posted on Aug, 23 2009 @ 02:08 PM
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I envy our founding fathers. When their world was in chaos, they lived among men and women who believed in something. Liberty was the motto of life, and everyone was in it to the end. We do not live in that world anymore. its a bloody shame.

[edit on 23-8-2009 by Pathos]



posted on Aug, 23 2009 @ 02:11 PM
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reply to post by Pathos
 


I agree with you in that we do not live in that world anymore.

We do not live in a world where the politicians give a damn about the American citizens.

They only give a damn about giving the appearance of giving a damn.

I say damn them and their damn appearances of giving a damn.



posted on Aug, 23 2009 @ 09:49 PM
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reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas
 




The culture of corruption within Government is implicitly direct to the proportion of the ineptitude of those people within Government actually governing over to begin with, this meaning of course that in essence the mass of society itself is so ignorant in knowing how to stop this flood of corruption that they have in essence given up trying


While I agree with this statement completely, it is nonetheless missing a key essential.. That is that all governments by nature are always going to be corrupt. Aristotle said that the only Government that could ever truly exist in perfect harmony with her people was an Enlightened Monarch .. This is not to say that no other government works, or even that Monarchy or any other direct rule was better than say, the Republic he lived in. The point of what he was saying is that the only non-corruptible government is one man who has the will power (enlightened) to rule absolutely without corruption for the needs of his/her people. Naturally it's assumed that after such a Monarch were to die, the system would be by nature, defunct. It could no longer serve it's purpose. The natural course of Governments is that of Evolution and Aging.. A government will be founded to represent her people of that age.. the Government will continuously consolidate the power it seeks from all around.. If the government were to perpetuate harmonic rule the people would not need the government, so the Government will gind REASONS for it's own existence.

This is not the fault of the people, this is natural progression.

It is however the fault of the people to not either overturn the progress made by Governments for the collective gains of that generation, or to elect the persons responsible for rushing the consolidation ..

If the US where to elect a completely new person every 4 years from no political party, the same progression of consolidation and power reaching would still continue, much to the demise of her people. However if we elect the same person for 100 years, (the two parties, just alternating) then it's the peoples fault that the ultimate goal will go unimpeded ..



SkepticOverlord’s trip to Washington D.C. is no surprise to me, not that he went, but the response of the politician was absolutely no surprise to me to say the least, because to politician’s this is all a giant game of getting theirs and screwing the public


I went to DC as well this summer.. I took pics, I planned on doing an elaborate thread on it (this was back in May) but I decided the audience wouldn't respond.

Anyways. The nature of politicians in a Democratic system the natural byproduct of which is corruption. When you force a politician to perform in these elections they will naturally do what ever anyone wants them to do to get the position. If Dictatorships are Absolute Corruption, then Democracies are Absolute Corruptible. You basically force the law makers to beg like dogs.. who ever throws the most treats who will the dog run to? In this case, special interest.. while the people may vote, the parties and their sponsors will sway the vote. The minds of men are easily corrupted.. Aristotle believed that Humans by nature, were to stupid and ignorant to govern themselves. The ultimate progression of age demands that eventually all Democratic systems will end in Tyranny.

You let it happen

All the reasons listed are the very reasons that Democracies are so corrupted. it also sadly illustrates the very reasons that HUMANS cannot govern themselves.. they have to much to worry about, and politics is naturally a turn off for the vast majority of people.. and those that find it fascinating often have no idea what they are talking about. To understand politics one must have a firm grasp on history, philosophy, sociology and international relations. Someone can tout the party line all day, but if you ask an indepth political question and hypothetical social, econo, poltical side effects, you're more likely to get a talking point than a true answer.. so what the hell let me ask you a question:

By and large I am stating that Democracy is fundamentally corrupt, people are to ignorant to govern themselves.. so why would you contend that Democracy is the absolute solution?

While the "People" can elect out who ever they want, hire, fire, alter the very way the government works.. Apathy which runs rampant in ALL democracies prevents this.. To often the changes are so subtle and silent and take effect over such long periods of time that the idea of "it doesn't bother me/effect me/ have to to with me" is the slogan of more than half the population (which incidentally doesn't vote). So we CAN change the Government, but we don't and that's all that matters.

While you and I may have the will power and desire to what's best for our countrymen what is the likelihood of it lasting? Let's assume I get elected, lets assume I ran on a Grass Roots movement.. let's assume I never take a bribe, I never do insider trading, let's assume I don't listen to any corporate lobbyist.. In all likelihood I did a very good thing for my country, but just as likely my image would be that of someone who never achieved much, and thus I would be replaced. Progression is viewed, in a Democracy, by the amount of change produced, it could be good or bad, if I did nothing but hold the status quo or revoke Government powers my image is that of a fence sitter who never took initiative. In all likeliness I am replaced, and another corrupt politician takes my place, within 24 hrs doing more harm than I had over a decade. What does this say to the vulnerability to Governments and their public servants?

Government is fundamentally flawed. Always has been. Always will be. Unless we lived in perpetual Revolution, which one could advocate that it would be impossible to corrupt a Government in such a short time span before being replaced. But in such a scenario it's safe to assume that through bloodshed, violence, and instability, the people would resort to the lowest bidder who offered peace and comfort, if not for exchange for their liberties and freedoms. People are complacent to be left well enough alone, to know that someone somewhere is taking the responsibility to protect their way of life without ever having to give a damn about any of it. Apathy. Ignorance. Corruption. Weakness. Contentiousness. These are the byproducts of Democracies, and the fundamental weaknesses of such an institution. They all lead down the road to one outcome: An apathetic ignorant populace with a corrupt consolidated federal government that through the years of consolidating power eventually becomes the complete opposite of it's founding: An Oligarch Dictatorship.

Don't blame the people. Blame the philosophy of Government.

[edit on 8/23/2009 by Rockpuck]



posted on Aug, 24 2009 @ 01:55 PM
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reply to post by Rockpuck
 


As I stated in the other thread where we were discussing politics, Rockpuck, you and I need to do a debate some time in the near future, for both of us to speak more in depth as well as I am sure I can use the practice.

Your question below is appropriate but I have to ask if you think we live in a Democracy, because as far as I understand it, we do not.


By and large I am stating that Democracy is fundamentally corrupt, people are to ignorant to govern themselves.. so why would you contend that Democracy is the absolute solution?


We live in fact, in a Republic, that is supposed, to practice democracy.

Laughable as it may seem, we rarely practice democracry in any way whatsoever.


I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.


While, yes, I agree that Government is flawed and susceptible to corruption, it is not until people become a part of that system that we see such a huge leap into the corruption phases, unless the person was completely immoral to begin with, which is sometimes the case when it comes to some politicians, especially in the latter half of this century.

The problem is that special interest groups, such as lobbyists, are allowed to legally bribe a politician to vote one way when they are supposed to vote a different way altogether according to their party line, or constituents wishes.

I still see the apathy and ignorance of the populace as a means as to how this corruption got this bad though because unlike you and I, there are far too many people in the world who do not understand a lick about politics to begin with, let alone would they know how to catch an immoral or corrupt politician.

There are far too many citizens who want nothing to do with responsibility, shirking their own well-being because they would rather let someone else stand up and when they do not do as they wish because a special interest or lobbying group comes along and persuades that politician to vote contrary to their position, those same citizens would rather sit back and bitch about it, instead of actually doing something creative and effective in getting that politician out of office. Instead these idiots, the savage minded simpletons who are citizens talk of building bombs, or revolution and picking up weapons to storm the offices of these corrupt people, and I have been there before as I have spoken on doing that latter part, about picking up weapons, when they should be studying the office of the politician and how to throw the turd out to begin with. You see, I may have spoken on picking up weapons before but it was passion that led me to talk of it, when I knew better than to actually do that.

We as citizens are responsible, whether we shirk that responsibility or not, for those idiots in office and them getting away with robbing us blind while we (the collective, not you and I, Rockpuck) sit on those comfortable couch cushions and watch the boob-tube and flick channels munching on popcorn after a long hard days work and ignore C-Span and instead flip over to Friends or Live with Regis and whatshername the blonde bimbo, when we should be studying books and speaking to like-minded individuals and making a change through taking back those elected positions one at a time.

So many citizens are tired of the system and its corruption, but will do nothing about it other than whine and cry and be little helpless babies, and I for one am tired of that. Every book I own is political science, Law Enforcment, military, intelligence agency, or some variation of that, with some sci-fi and fiction mixed in and I have read and put to word the problems I see with the world at large, let alone my own nation. Everywhere I go people see me constantly reading, studying, building my mental arsenal in how politics works and how the corruption has set in and how to defeat it.

As I have said before, politics may be corrupt, but it is the whining, sniveling, and crying of the hand-wringers that lets it continue to be that way.

I for one am not responsible for this mess because I am doing something about it.



posted on Aug, 24 2009 @ 02:26 PM
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reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas
 




Your question below is appropriate but I have to ask if you think we live in a Democracy, because as far as I understand it, we do not.


Democracy isn't so much a form of Government as it is an action.

We live in a Constitutional Republic. The Method of Representation is a Representative Democracy. Thus, America is a Democracy through the action of voting.. a Republic does not demand "voted" officials to represent the States, it only demands a Representative be present. The action of Voting is thus, the problem. The Democratic Process is the inherit flaw I am speaking of.

To say we are not Democratic in anyway overlooks the medium used to represent the people.. There are many many forms of Government, and rarely is a Country exclusively one or the other unless there is an absolute system of Government.



While, yes, I agree that Government is flawed and susceptible to corruption, it is not until people become a part of that system that we see such a huge leap into the corruption phases, unless the person was completely immoral to begin with, which is sometimes the case when it comes to some politicians, especially in the latter half of this century.


Government IS People. Without People, there is no Government.. Government is corrupt, because people are Corrupt.

And through the very nature of Governments, especially Democratic ones is that they will consolidate power.. always, forever, until they die.. Even if the people were not Apathetic, or if they were truly informed, the Government would still be corrupt.



There are far too many citizens who want nothing to do with responsibility, shirking their own well-being because they would rather let someone else stand up and when they do not do as they wish because a special interest or lobbying group comes along and persuades that politician to vote contrary to their position


Not so really.. the very nature of people allows that Apathy to form .. it could be said that Democracy is a violation of natural order, as people more often desire to Follow, not Lead.. and Democracy demands some form of Leadership from everyone, to take the initiative to be informed and vote. The fact that Lobbyist gain the upper hand is not at all surprising, from my Dog analogy who throws the most treats? We force the Politicians into a situation where they beg for their jobs.. it's only natural that this should be the outcome.



You see, I may have spoken on picking up weapons before but it was passion that led me to talk of it, when I knew better than to actually do that.


Why not? Why should we fear to raise arms against a Government that doesn't truly represent what it claims to? To believe that this country, or any country in history or in the future will be dramatically changed for the better through Democratic means is absurd and hopeless. A system embedded with corruption can only be terminated or else no true change could occur. To much is established at the foundation of the very way the country works.. the progression of this will only get worse until either a new government replaces it through force, or it self destructs, which is just as likely, if not more so.



So many citizens are tired of the system and its corruption, but will do nothing about it other than whine and cry and be little helpless babies,


And now look at us.. behind screen names sitting in our home offices and living rooms debating in public because we are to lazy to meet in person, or to take initiative and protest in the streets. you and I may be doing "something" by being informed and spreading our own independent ideologies but when it really comes down to it nothing we do will ever change anything.



posted on Aug, 24 2009 @ 02:54 PM
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reply to post by Rockpuck
 


Well said Rockpuck, well said.

I can see you at least as well as a few other American's actually "know the score" so to speak as to what is going on in our country.

As for picking up weapons, believe me, I know it may well take just that type of action.

My reason for speaking against it though was not because I think it is wrong, and I agree with you that once tyranny sets in, this is a course of action necessary, but too many people speak of that as their first action, when it should in fact be their last action, as a last resort.

People should first pick up their books and learn what it means to understand politics, instead of counting on their often corrupted or lost knowledge from school that they never kept up to date with because of work.

Yes, people are corrupt, and Government is run by people, so Government is corruption in action through people who suspend doing the right thing, because most people tend to forget that people are fallible, corrupt, or are not big picture thinkers, and those are the very people who unfortunately get elected.

Too lazy to meet in person?


Like Hell buddy, I would meet you if I could afford to get there.

As for the screen names and posting here in a public forum, alas, that is what the internet is best for, speaking to like-minded individuals, and communicating across vast distances.

I still say the public is too ignorant to do anything towards throwing the idiots out of office.

I cannot speak for you, Rockpuck, but I know that I know that Obama and his glorified "Stimulus Package" was nothing more than a ruse to give kickbacks and graft for getting him into office.

I wrote a short story about it too :

Roasting Sheeple Through Innocent Poles and Sweet Grassy Knolls

It is not finished, and I noticed because it does not have Obama's name in the title, no one has seemed to have read it.

So many people do not seem to know or understand that this "Stimulus Package" was a stimulus for the banks, car industry, and everyone but the American citizen.

The Creature from Jekyll Island : A Second Look at the Federal Reserve

I wrote the above thread knowing full well what it was, a giant kickback.

How many citizens out there know that banking laws are written in the interest of the banks, and this crap that they gave this money out with no actionable direction is the most insane crap I have ever heard.

Who the Hell gives out money without directing how it is spent?

Well, a bank loan requires knowing what the money is to be spent for, or you do not get one penny, so that the politicians would be so absurd as to give out OUR money without doing so is either one of the most inept and idiotic things they have ever done, or the most calculated effort of plausible deniability I have ever seen.

Yet, the people, the citizens of this nation sit back and uncomprehendingly watch in shock and awe?

What complete imbecilic morons would believe any man claiming to give the banks money to lend to more American citizens will "stimulate" our economy?

So, Mr. President, what you are saying is that the citizens of this nation, who are having their mortgages foreclosed on, cars repossessed, and creditors beating down their door, need more loans?

That the people of America did not march on Washington the very day Obama said that amazes me to no end.

I am happy to say that I did not create this mess by voting for Obama.

I am happy to say that I did not create the mess before by voting Bush either.

Registered Independent, period. I do not vote for the lesser of two evils.


[edit on 24-8-2009 by SpartanKingLeonidas]



posted on Aug, 24 2009 @ 03:24 PM
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reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas
 




As for picking up weapons, believe me, I know it may well take just that type of action.


I know it will .. I know we could dick around trying to get people "aware" or try to get people "involved" .. but when it comes down to it, I really don't have much hope in the general populace. The people are set in their ways, and the Government is cunning enough to make them complacent through any means possible.. you would think with record unemployment there would be more vocal people demanding something be done.. that the unemployed would be in the streets challenging the so called recovery. They are not there though, why not? because the Government still hands out their unemployment.. they still have their access to health care, they still eat every night, they still have a place to sleep.

If you love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home and leave us in peace. We seek not your council, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you; and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.

Does that not describe our countrymen today? We love Wealth above all else, we will sacrifice our way of life to secure it, throwing countless others "under the bus" .. We desire Transquility .. the actions of the uninformed, the mindless party line preachers, the people content enough to not even be able to name our Vice President. The act of Servitude is far easier than the act of informed leadership.. And while Samuel Adams denouced these cowards declaring posterity forget them, perhaps he knew the posterity would be exactly like them?



Like Hell buddy, I would meet you if I could afford to get there.


LOL.. aint that the truth.. but of course I was speaking in general terms, how we meet and debate on sites like ATS and others, but little face to face interaction occurs. What good is formulating a political following if it's not concentrated in a locality to get someone elected? Nothing. No good what so ever.

And yes, I know the "stimulus" plan (which was the only bill ever produced and passed exclusively for Pork projects... usually Pork is attached to another bill, but this was literally a "pork package" bill.. amazing.)

But where was the out cry? None. The first stimulus there was MASSIVE outcry. What happened? It passed, the Government explained in no uncertain terms that we were ignorant school children who didn't know any better. Then what did we do? We slunk back to our computer terminals, grumbled for a few weeks, and our attention gets shifted to the latest stories on E!



Registered Independent, period. I do not vote for the lesser of two evils.


Aigh, we both can say we didn't vote for the two parties.. but honestly, what good did it do? I joined the ranks of a few thousand angry Libertarians and Constitutionalists in my state that tipped the states political power to the left, and now we have a Democrat controlled...... everything. Which will expedite every damaging bill going through the House.. Did I do good or bad by taking my Conservative Vote and protesting it?

I fear I did the wrong thing..



posted on Aug, 24 2009 @ 04:08 PM
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I agree on so many points. We also have the problem of believing "everything is going to be ok" & "It couldn't happen".

Beyond getting involved in government, the people barely understand anything to do with civil defense or disaster preparation anymore.

I am a frequent poster to the survival forums and you know if people HAD (either smart enough or required to) a few months of food, we wouldn't have to worry about (as much) a general collapse in the event of a large scale disaster (EMP, Disruption of Electricity & Transportation, etc.) because we wouldn't have to worry about jack-asses running out of food in days and trying to steal, confiscate, or kill for food (which is one of my largest concerns).

I would prefer to participate in the community but it is hard when the freeking community is so damned ignorant about safety. The freeking people in my housing development care more about their lawn.. (or I should say their neighbors lawn) than they do their damned security. People are insane. In a disaster situation I know the first thing they would decide upon would be confiscating everyone's food for the "good" of the community.

Well how about NOT buy that $2,000.00 Big Screen and invest in a year of long term storage food? They would look at me like I was crazy unless something happened, then I would be the "greedy" guy who won't give away his food.... Who's greedy?

The world is full of idiots.



[edit on 24-8-2009 by infolurker]



posted on Aug, 24 2009 @ 04:24 PM
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reply to post by Rockpuck
 


Well, I do not seeing this as "dicking" around as you so eloquently put it.


I see raising awareness as an important and necessary action, unfortunately, my experiences in raising public awareness seem to me sometimes like equaling throwing pebble into a blackhole to fill it up.

Into the void will I cast the pebbles and nothing shall be accomplished...

Well, instead of doing that anymore, I am instead jumping into the void myself.

I have always been the type to jump into the meatgrinder perse because no one else will, and I usually end up breaking the meatgrinder asunder because I am stronger than said problem and I find a solution to get to the source of the problem.


If you love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home and leave us in peace. We seek not your council, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you; and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.


I love not wealth greater than my liberty, I seek not to serve in tranquility as I have served others for far too long and I do nothing quietly, and I am never home and will not leave those people in peace because if I have to rouse every citizen by beating their doors down one town at a time, I will.

They do seek my council but care to listen not, because they see too much of the problem being their own reflection in causing the problem by doing nothing to stop it, and they seek my arms yet do not understand that two Glock's and a shotgun will only ruffle the fur of the beast when it is millions of arms carried by they themselves that must necessitate this change through rising up.

I neither crouch nor lick any hand that feeds me, because I am the only hand that feeds me, I have no master nor seek to supplicate or prostrate myself before a buffoon or idiot who believes themselves sacrosanct, when I believe far differently, that by grabbing these arrogant pricks by the collar of their cheap suit and throw them out of their chair or yank them from behind their podium and I will kick the podium and be the first to set it ablaze with the fires of freedom.

I can see that your description indeed aptly fits our American citizens which is why I created this thread in fact, because far too many American's would rather listen to the soothing voice of a politician who croons and lies to their faces and robs their pocketbooks or wallet and I for one am listening no more.

I was raised to be a leader and lead I shall, but I will not lead a revolution by force of guns and blind rage and impotent blathering, but by intelligence shall I martial those citizens who actually want that change into instituting it themselves through their action and not through inaction.

I was asked by a friend if I would lead or follow, and I knew she was trying to distract and divide me against myself by the false dichotomy of only two choices, and I told her I would do neither, lead nor follow.

There is always a third option, you can teach others to lead and through them, force them to lead themselves.

[edit on 24-8-2009 by SpartanKingLeonidas]



posted on Aug, 24 2009 @ 04:33 PM
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reply to post by infolurker
 


Far too often people are reactionary instead of being pro-active.

I can attest to this when I ask the questions I do of people about what they would do in an emergency, and their standard and almost exact same answer is as follows :

I will go to the Emergency Room, or call the Police, or call for an Ambulance...

They never ever give answers where they are prepared, and hardly know the contact numbers for anyone other than Law Enforcement or 911.

You say they say it "can never happen" and I agree that people say this, because they are ignorant to the possibility because they have blind hope it will not happen by ignoring reality and instead relying on self-delusions and self-centered concerns of personal wealth like Rockpuck mentioned earlier.

So many people do not realize is all it would take for a coup against the people is the declaration of Martial Law and those "Emergency Laws" change the entire structure of society in the blink of an eye, and that F.E.M.A. through Homeland Security can take away your very freedom in order to "protect you" and in order to maintain "civil order", ushering you into detainment camps.

[edit on 24-8-2009 by SpartanKingLeonidas]



posted on Aug, 24 2009 @ 05:41 PM
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reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas
 




I see raising awareness as an important and necessary action, unfortunately, my experiences in raising public awareness seem to me sometimes like equaling throwing pebble into a blackhole to fill it up.


Exactly. It's futile and pointless, nothing will be achieved. It's dicking around.



I was raised to be a leader and lead I shall, but I will not lead a revolution by force of guns and blind rage and impotent blathering, but by intelligence shall I martial those citizens who actually want that change into instituting it themselves through their action and not through inaction.


If you find a way to do that.. to defy the odds and successfully come up with an idea that can turn the current progression around, I would gladly support you. As of right now I see it being an impossibility, the people are to splintered and divided to find strength behind a common goal.. the ones that fiercely advocate change are being written off everywhere you look as loons, sore loosers and political opportunist.



There is always a third option, you can teach others to lead and through them, force them to lead themselves.


You mean be the corrupter? It's far better to rule from the back seat, directing the movements of others.. the term would be.... more room to stretch out..
Given the chance I would lead, I have thought about politics as a career, but I believe my ideas are far to radical and quite honestly the money it takes (millions) to get there doesn't seem like a worthy investment. People are far happier with the Status Quo than they would be for actual change..

Imagine if we moved towards Constitutional Law, the amount of programs that would be cut, slashing budgets, reducing government.. I think many people would be very angry.. Socialist outweigh Constitutionalists 10:1 .. and imo, the majority of the people WANT a very large, Socialist Government to provide for them.

reply to post by infolurker
 


If it got to the point that a years supply of food was actually required.. I wouldn't want to be the guy known to have a years supply of food. If you get my drift.

reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas
 


Can you say Swine Flu? .. This huge out break of panic and pandemonium over what? A flu that killed a few Mexicans? If we where a European state I would seriously fear for my life in the coming months, being in America, armed to the teeth, I don't think the Government would survive a coup against the people, quite honestly.. Dick Cheney himself said: You cannot force a Dictatorship down the throats of the American people; they will kill you.

However, in times of crisis rational people become irrational.. it's possible that all hell would break loose, and it's possible we would roll over and take it... But so long as we are armed, we are free.. It may not be your choice of offense or defense, but you cannot deny the power of both numbers and firepower.

Do you know what America's biggest problems are?

1. We have no history, and thus learned few valuable lessons.
2. We have a Superiority complex.. we believe the troubles of the outside World could never happen to us, because they never have.. we believe we are immune to these Worldly problems.. and some day it's going to smack us in the face, and we will face everything we never thought we would.. which will only multiply the side effects of such an event..

[edit on 8/24/2009 by Rockpuck]



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