How can time 'only be an illusion'?

Originally posted by Illusionsaregrander
Have you ever seen a "flip book?" They are books that have a series of still drawings, (usually simple figures) and when you flip the pages rapidly the drawings appear to move.

I am not saying this is in fact the way it occurs, it is one proposition, (which I have simplified greatly so that "light reading" isnt required in the moment. Julian Barbour is the physicist who proposed this version of timelessness.

He's the one getting credit but I considered this explanation many years ago without even having heard it from anyone else. It leaves me wanting since it appears incomplete, as appealing to the psyche as it may seem on the surface.

One is the fact that the moments of now appear to "pass" at all. Clearly there is change of some sort at least in manifest. What then is changing from the observer's point of view?

Ok, now I'm going to rack my brain and reverse the relationship to see what I get but using the same proposition. Usually the true self is taken as the permant fixture while the material as a fleeting illusion.

Julian Barbour seems to take the material as a permanent fixture. Now if we are strictly material beings, how could the fixture of that "material" in the structure produce experience and any perception of change?

Damn, it all blows up royally from a materialist reductionism point of view. What's new?

reply to post by hikix


Everyting in this reality is decaying, that is what time is, decay.

It will not last forever be it you, me or the sun.

It is the perfect lesson for everyone.

Time is an illusion caused by decay.

The true reality is, we kid ourselves that we do not know who we are, we do not know when we truly are (date wise), we kid ourselves that we do not know our purpose. We know nothing but jokes in reality. The whole fabric of our society is based on a lie that most people think is god etc but its actually a piece of paper we call money.



[edit on 20-8-2009 by XXXN3O]

well instead of decay; i would say that time is what is in between order moving towards chaos.

Originally posted by EnlightenUp
Damn, it all blows up royally from a materialist reductionism point of view. What's new?

Very true. If you stop to consider that you (meaning anybody) have absolutely no clue what is really outside your skull -- that it is all just a fabrication caused by the input from your various sensory mechanisms -- then one has to wonder if *anything* exists. By definition, it is all in our heads anyway.

I don't see why time needs to be so mysterious or complicated as many science theory's state, if you think about it this way it makes the most sense.

We have space and we have energy/matter which is in constant motion, this motion is what we call time, time is a form of measurement, energy/matter can move/change at varying speeds in relation to everything else due to whatever force is acting on it, like say gravity, this accounts for relativity and the so called arrow of time, as there is no dimensional past and future existing like we think space does, there is only the present but we do feel a sense of change occurring, likely due to the time the brain processes incoming information and acting on it, i imagine its like a thin slice of memory where the change happening has a fade on each end which gets perceived at once to us as the passage of time.

time is in fact an invention of man to relate our existence to the universe around us

reply to post by hikix


This problem has a lot to do with semantics, Hikix.
When people speak about "time" - like you did, with your example - they are usually referring to DURATION. And I think discussions about time - in "lay" terms - would become much more intelligible if people just used this term, "duration", instead of referring to the abstraction of "time".

But is duration entirely and irrevocably identical to the perception of time as an irreversible linear arrow...?

I am not sure.

I have the impression that time is created by the speed of thought. I had a terrible car accident a few years back and seriously my life flashed in front of my eyes in a fraction of a second. This short moment felt like an eternity. Since then I wonder if the brain is capaple of working at greater speed in moments of great stress, and if so, if it would create the illusion of time slowing down.

[edit on 21-8-2009 by derpif]

reply to post by derpif


Along those same lines, I've wondered whether, at the moment of death, the same thing happens and your perception of time stagnation is what becomes your "eternity" of everlasting heaven, hell, or whatever.

Originally posted by 12.21.12
Everything begins where it ends, everything ends where it begins.

Time is only a measurement. So that you can be taxed to death.

Every once in a while someone grabs some words from thin
air and creates something eloquent. Well said 12.21.12.

Time doesn't exist any more than physical reality exists.

The molecules and waves that make up the "you" of this moment
will not be exactly the same ones that make up the "you" in
any other moment.

All life is perception and dreams, nothing more.

reply to post by yuefo


I`m not sure if I get you right, English is not my first language. If you mean that maybe time stops existing for our consciousness in the moment of death, but the consciousness is still there I`m with you.

A Quote:
The Past is History, Tomorrow is a mystery, all we have is the Present that is why they call it a Gift.
In essence then time is purely psychological.

Look, the way I see it, Time exists as we see it, but to Aliens or other lifeforms it will mean nothing because they will have different ways of measuring time, if at all. There will be one particular time that the entire universe runs on, but we made time up to suit our needs and make our lives convenient and tidy. I mean, why would aliens measure time as we do when their home planet will not be in the same position in their solar system as us and so on?

Ramadwarf on time

Originally posted by derpif
I have the impression that time is created by the speed of thought. I had a terrible car accident a few years back and seriously my life flashed in front of my eyes in a fraction of a second. This short moment felt like an eternity. Since then I wonder if the brain is capaple of working at greater speed in moments of great stress, and if so, if it would create the illusion of time slowing down.

[edit on 21-8-2009 by derpif]

In fact, it does. Michio Kaku did a show called "Time" on discovery channel once where they demonstrated that the brain has the ability to "frame" at a faster rate under conditions of stress. Apparently there are two clocks that exist in our brains. One is our autonomic clock and is used to control circadium rythms, etc. The other is our concious clock, which is baselined to the first clock and is used to "frame" our conciousness. When we are exposed to high levels of adrenaline, etc., the second clock will accellerate, which will slow down our perception of the external world.

Edit to add: This is also the reason why older people think the world is moving fast and younger people tend to be impatient and think everything is taking too long ("are we there yet?"). Our second clock slows down over time.

[edit on 8-21-2009 by rogerstigers]

reply to post by rogerstigers


Thank you very much for that information, I have to look if I can find that documentary you mentioned. It seems to confirm that my conclusion was right.
Wouldn`t it be great if we could create this effect artificially...I wonder if we would move faster?

Originally posted by hikix
I have read so many times of E.T's telling humans that time is only an illusion. Or, time was made up by humans. I even think some members here believe that time is an illusion.

How can this possibly be true. I can leave a piece of bread outside and in time it will become moldy and begin to decompose. If time was an illusion the bread would stay in the same form forever. This idea goes with just about any object on Earth.

Time is Real for our Material World Vibrating at this frequency.

Outside this Dimension time does not exist . It is very well explained in the following thread PART II I believe is end of sub part 3 sub part part 4sub part part 5

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Hope you will understand .

Also if you travel out of body meaning you are not in phisical vibration you will know that Time is irrelevant .

Originally posted by conspiracyrus
time is in fact an invention of man to relate our existence to the universe around us

If that were true - then food would not rot, metal would not rust and oceans would not dry up.

Time is NOT an illusion.

reply to post by mr-lizard


Very well said in the simplest amount of time

I was merely going to ask what we will call the period between birth and death(surely lifespan and time go hand in hand). Animals have been living and dying for a very long time. Don't think it would be fair to say we invented time. It was here before us.

We percieve time as linear but that time is affected by things like speed and gravity. For instance at the speed of light time contracts. In a gravity well like a black hole time dialates. Time is merely a dimension that we aren't capable of experiencing in its full form. So for us time happens in a series of events from cradle to grave. For other dimensions it is all occurs at once.

When you have a near death experience they say your life flashes before your eyes. Not true. You just experience time in a different way for a split second.

Ok my brain hurts from reading all of these posts. Nice deparure from the normal stuff though. Good thread.

I need a beer.

Time isnt an illusion. Energy is sent in packets called quanta hence quantum physics. Time is the result of these quanta continously changing the state of the atoms which are in fact made up of smaller energy called quarks. Without this we wouldnt have time because if energy didnt change then everything would be like a still photo. Time isnt an illusion but it is relative and depending on the brain time can be percieved different because of the production of dmt in the pineal gland. This can radically alter the perception of time like make 3 mins seems like 3 hours for example.

[edit on 28-8-2009 by loner007]