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How can time 'only be an illusion'?

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posted on Aug, 20 2009 @ 01:21 PM
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I have read so many times of E.T's telling humans that time is only an illusion. Or, time was made up by humans. I even think some members here believe that time is an illusion.

How can this possibly be true. I can leave a piece of bread outside and in time it will become moldy and begin to decompose. If time was an illusion the bread would stay in the same form forever. This idea goes with just about any object on Earth.




posted on Aug, 20 2009 @ 01:38 PM
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Maybe time as we see it and view it is petty as nothing is or goes according to time, more like cycles? I don't know, good question as I have wondered the same thing for a while now.



posted on Aug, 20 2009 @ 01:46 PM
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Originally posted by hikix
I have read so many times of E.T's telling humans that time is only an illusion. Or, time was made up by humans. I even think some members here believe that time is an illusion.


How old are you if you don't know how old you are?


Or more importantly ask yourself, what time is it?

Time, like all measurements and indeed mind made concepts, is by definition relative. An abstract relative point has to be set and count from there. Same way there's not really a North and South unless one sets an arbitrary location to start from.

Some light reading:

www.goertzel.org...

It is really an impossible question to answer either way without getting into the quantum and even into the metaphysical.



posted on Aug, 20 2009 @ 01:49 PM
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I question time as some kind of actual physical property of the universe. Time really is just the measurement of one motion relative to another. Using a clock, time is simply the steady beat used to compare and delineate movements. It's not hard then to intuitively reconcile the idea of "time" being affected by motion and distortion of space but only relative to observers not sharing the same frame of reference.

Is motion possible without time?
Is time possible without motion?

False paradox? I think so.

It's just geometry.



posted on Aug, 20 2009 @ 01:58 PM
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reply to post by schrodingers dog
 



you call that light reading? I am at work now, Ill try to digest that later when i devote full attention.



posted on Aug, 20 2009 @ 01:59 PM
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I read a book a while ago called (I think) "The End of Time". I have to look through my library to try to find it. Essentially, what this physicist explains is that time does not exist. Everything that can happen exists in a set of "frames". We navigate through these frames using our decisions. Time is relative because our movement through these frames can be differant for each of us based on a number of influences.

I don't fully understand the theory, but it was definately an interesting take. If we choose to navigate our decisions differantly, time flows differantly, but only for us, since it applies only to our frame of reference.



posted on Aug, 20 2009 @ 01:59 PM
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reply to post by EnlightenUp
 



regardless of frame of reference, time still exists.. at least on Earth. I don't know how other areas of the universe operates.



posted on Aug, 20 2009 @ 02:15 PM
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Originally posted by hikix
reply to post by schrodingers dog
 


Ill try to digest that later ...


As you wish, but "later" will still be now.



posted on Aug, 20 2009 @ 02:22 PM
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Originally posted by hikix
reply to post by EnlightenUp
 

regardless of frame of reference, time still exists.. at least on Earth. I don't know how other areas of the universe operates.


What is its nature? Is it a physical "thing" or an abstraction of cognition that the mind attributes to having external reality, much like color?



posted on Aug, 20 2009 @ 02:42 PM
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reply to post by EnlightenUp
 



hmmm to think of it that way, we only see what our eyes let us. If we had eyes like a fly we would probably think everything is completly different then what it is. If we had eyes like a fish than everything would be round, even flat surfaces... im getting way over my head with this!



posted on Aug, 20 2009 @ 02:45 PM
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I've always seen it like this: all things in space-time happen simultaneously. Imagine a graph of say, the growth of a plant over time. Growth on the Y axis, time on the X axis. When you plot the graph, all the points are on there at the same time, but when you read the graph you can get a concept of the plant growing as time passes.

I believe that our perception of time is akin to reading a graph. In essence, there are four spatial dimensions, with time being the most ambiguous of them. The only reason we perceive time as fluid is because of our position on the graph.

I don't know if that makes any sense to you, but it does to me.


edit to clarify a little bit:

Our position on the graph doesn't move, we simply perceive the point of the graph that we exist at. In essence, there are billions and billions of "me", one for each point on the graph. "I" only exist in this moment, this point on the graph, so to speak. another "me" will exist at the next point on the graph.

[edit on 8/20/2009 by LiquidLight]



posted on Aug, 20 2009 @ 02:49 PM
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Everything begins where it ends, everything ends where it begins.

Time is only a measurement. So that you can be taxed to death.



posted on Aug, 20 2009 @ 02:56 PM
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Time is not universal. Time is perceptual and a by-product of the Bicameral Mind that distinguishes between this and that, black and white, them and me, good and evil.

The truth is that no other animal may actually perceive Time other than humans.

A greater truth, however, is that everything that was, is, and is yet to be is happening simultaneously. The limits of the human brain cannot grasp this concept, so it makes distinctions by developing the concept of Time.

There are a lot of interesting studies in the field of the perception of Time using psychotropics, Lucid Dreaming, as well as Sensory Deprivation. Leary and McKenna both did a lot of study in this field, and have opened the field to others continuing such explorations.

Think about it...how many lifetimes could you live in but a single night of sleep? Try sitting in a Sensory Deprivation tank while it is recorded. To what seems to be a minute to you, hours will go by and you'll be babbling like a banshee all that time and have no recollection of it.

Time does not exist. It is something the human mind made up as a coping mechanism.



posted on Aug, 20 2009 @ 03:00 PM
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Originally posted by hikix
How can this possibly be true. I can leave a piece of bread outside and in time it will become moldy and begin to decompose. If time was an illusion the bread would stay in the same form forever. This idea goes with just about any object on Earth.


Have you ever seen a "flip book?" They are books that have a series of still drawings, (usually simple figures) and when you flip the pages rapidly the drawings appear to move. Much in the way animation is created for cartoons. All the "cells" or drawings exist all at once, but the act of flipping through them rapidly allows the illusion that something is moving through time and space.

That is an explanation for how time can be an illusion and you can still experience the "process in time" of bread getting moldy. The bread instead of changing in "fact" in a linear way, actually exists all at once in all the states it can possibly be in, from grain to pile of slime and mold, to dust. Your consciousness experiences this "whole life cycle of bread" in the only way the architecture of our minds allows us to, like a flip book, and it appears to be a "process" rather than bread existing in all forms simultaneously.

I am not saying this is in fact the way it occurs, it is one proposition, (which I have simplified greatly so that "light reading" isnt required in the moment. Julian Barbour is the physicist who proposed this version of timelessness.

en.wikipedia.org...


His 1999 The End of Time advances the controversial view that time does not exist as anything other than an illusion, and that a number of problems in physical theory arise from assuming that it does exist. He argues that we have no evidence of the past other than our memory of it, and no evidence of the future other than our belief in it. "Change merely creates an illusion of time, with each individual moment existing in its own right, complete and whole." He calls these moments "Nows". It is all an illusion: there is no motion and no change. He argues that the illusion of time is what we interpret through what he calls "time capsules," which are "any fixed pattern that creates or encodes the appearance of motion, change or history." The philosopher J. M. E. McTaggart reached a similar conclusion in his 1908 The Unreality of Time.



posted on Aug, 20 2009 @ 03:02 PM
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Originally posted by LiquidLight
Our position on the graph doesn't move, we simply perceive the point of the graph that we exist at. In essence, there are billions and billions of "me", one for each point on the graph. "I" only exist in this moment, this point on the graph, so to speak. another "me" will exist at the next point on the graph.

[edit on 8/20/2009 by LiquidLight]


In the physical sense at least, another way to think of it that might scare some people is that after every moment has passed, the you that was, is dead. Given enough "time", the body is mostly replaced with new molecules but noone seems to notice. You have exhaled and flushed your "self" down the toilet countless times.

[edit on 8/20/2009 by EnlightenUp]



posted on Aug, 20 2009 @ 03:05 PM
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reply to post by fraterormus
 


While I agree that time doesn't really exist as we perceive it, I disagree that only humans perceive it. It's evident in nature that animals perceive time. For example, a lion must have a concept of time in order to intercept its prey; a songbird must have a concept of time in order to put together its complicated mating calls; a monkey must have a concept of time in order to swing from tree to tree in the jungle. They may not think about the passage of time, but that's more because of their limited cognitive function than any lack of perception of it.



posted on Aug, 20 2009 @ 03:18 PM
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I just located this video on the subject, and thought I would post it as well. I havent yet seen it, but Julian Barbour on his own website endorses it as a description so you may find it useful.




posted on Aug, 20 2009 @ 03:29 PM
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Time really doesn`t exist because you always are in the present. I think consciousness triggers an expectancy of continuity and that is what we perceive.

Think about meditation or deep trance, hours can go by, but when you open your eyes it seems only 30 minutes have gone by...

I even had this weird experience like a month ago, when I woke up one morning first question I asked my family members was: How long have I slept ? Because I could swear several days had gone by while I was asleep - I'm still not sure what could cause something like that.


Originally posted by LiquidLight
reply to post by fraterormus
 


While I agree that time doesn't really exist as we perceive it, I disagree that only humans perceive it. It's evident in nature that animals perceive time.


I agree.

Monkey gathers some rocks before the zoo opens so that he can throw them at visitors later.
www.timesonline.co.uk...

Dolphins saves thrash under a rock in her basin so that she can get fish when she wants. Not when the trainer wants it

www.ehow.com...

So what is this concept of "time" you're talking about ?



posted on Aug, 20 2009 @ 03:57 PM
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Originally posted by hikix
I have read so many times of E.T's telling humans that time is only an illusion. Or, time was made up by humans. I even think some members here believe that time is an illusion.

How can this possibly be true. I can leave a piece of bread outside and in time it will become moldy and begin to decompose. If time was an illusion the bread would stay in the same form forever. This idea goes with just about any object on Earth.

very confusing question
i think motion is time and time is motion so i believe that time will stop if motion has stopped also all of our perceptions depend on motion vision as example depend on motion of light and it's velocity
time is motion, motion is life = so time is life
is life an illusion ?



posted on Aug, 20 2009 @ 04:02 PM
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Time is no more an illusion than reality is


You know duality?
Everything has an opposite.
The opposite of our reality, is three dimensions of time and one dimension of space. that way, in our opposite universe, you travel around in time, back and fourth; but the space is linear, so you can only go in one direction ^^



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