Allies ignored extermination of the Jews, claims Vatican

Originally posted by mf_luder
The allies actually didn't know about the camps until they discovered them during the fight through Germany. I doubt they were complicit and "knew" about the camps. Why do people get away with making rubbish like this up?

Well back in History class in high school in Canada it was taught that Britain and several other countries were offered the Jews and refused BEFORE the death camps...

Has that history now been changed or did I slip into another time line

reply to post by zorgon


Can you provide some links to this information?

I don't recall ever hearing about that. I know a lot of Jews were fleeing out of Europe and wound up going to those places, but I never heard they were formally offered the Jews.

reply to post by mf_luder


Oh I hear you.

I just wanted to make sure that this doesn't become a witch hunt where only the US/UK get singled out for not doing anything sooner. Meanwhile the entire continent of Europe was very anti-Semitic the Germans being the worst at the time and the fact that out of all those countries nobody took the JEWS in before TSHTF is all.



[edit on 17-8-2009 by SLAYER69]

The Allies knew about the camps. They could see them during reconnaissance flights over the camps. They knew what was going on in them. Aside from being able to figure it out from aerial photographs, they also had some actual photographs taken within the camps themselves.

The Allies justified their lack of a response by claiming that they needed to devote all their efforts to fighting Germany and breaking its military abilities. I can't say whether this was true, but it is the explanation offered.

The Allies - and nearly every other country - refused to allow Jewish refugees entry into their countries. No one wanted them. There is a story called Voyage of the Damned that shows the plight of the Jews.

Briefly, Germany allowed a boatload of Jews to leave the country on the SS St. Louis. This ship traveled to several countries, but was denied entry by all of them. It had to return to Germany, where the Jews were all killed.

The Roman Catholic Church did little, if anything, to save Jews. The Pope was worried about his own flock. Catholics were vulnerable to being slaughtered by the Nazis. The Pope chose not to antagonize Hitler by keeping quiet about the Holocaust.

That being said, individual priests, nuns, and others risked and sometimes lost their lives,, trying to hide and protect Jews. Many Catholic families took Jewish children and raised tham as their own, in the Catholic tradition.

All in all, the world wasn't too worried about the fate of a few Jews.

reply to post by chiron613


Oh yea, I think I remember about that boat.


Well, in any case, I understand the viewpoint of the allies. 670 years later and we are STILL learning from German designs and creations. The stuff they made and built was simply astonishing for the time period. So I understand that. Still, they were probably predigest themselves a bit.

Originally posted by ashnomadonte
Excuse me for my ignorance of this topic however I remember some ware did not the Vatican have a part to play in the Nazi party? I could have sworn.....

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/7c615184777a.jpg[/atsimg]

I'll see your saluting Catholics - and raise you Thirteen Nazi Jews.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/3dcca6ed6609.jpg[/atsimg]

*This was WW2; there is plenty of blame to go around. Even Jews are not absolved.

reply to post by Exuberant1


Me being Jewish I am...Wow your funny wicked funny I don't even have words right now Im laughing to hard

I wish I could give you more than one star you made my night! hey can I get the link to the story behind that pic please.

[edit on 17-8-2009 by ashnomadonte]

Originally posted by chiron613

All in all, the world wasn't too worried about the fate of a few Jews.

Yeah sorry about that.

We were to busy waging a balls-out Global Conflagration against the NAZIs and the insidious Japponese.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/a7edcdbafcc2.gif[/atsimg]

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/ead004f2bde8.jpg[/atsimg]

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/dd43f537af73.png[/atsimg]

reply to post by Exuberant1


I'll see your 13 Jew Nazis and raise you 20.000 American Nazis

German American Bund rally at Madison Square Garden. New York, United States, February 20, 1939.

Originally posted by ashnomadonte
reply to post by Exuberant1

 

I wish I could give you more than one star you made my night! hey can I get the link to the story behind that pic please.

[edit on 17-8-2009 by ashnomadonte]

The caption says , more or less: " A bunch of Jewish Youth Nazis from Betar, visiting Berlin in 1936"



Edit: Slayer, I can't top that

[edit on 17-8-2009 by Exuberant1]

Slayer wins, the lols have been made, the night is completed. Thanks for the memories, good night all.


As to the topic, it's new. Let's see what the allies say, if they even respond.

reply to post by SLAYER69


well well leave it to you to top us all -_- you win this time slayer.

reply to post by Exuberant1


My point being.

Everybody... EVERYBODY was pretty much showing signs at the time YES including the Church of Anti-Semitism all for various reasons. As I stated on the first page. I think this just shows more of the story not "rewrites" history but adds to it. It expands our knowledge of what really went on.

Did we ignore the camps? I would have to say yes to a certain extent. I'm not thoroughly convinced though that they knew the extent of the horror going on. That in fact they were totally in shock once as Luder stated they arrived there did the magnitude of the atrocity strike home.

Originally posted by mf_luder

Can you provide some links to this information?

I will look.. see if I can find a reliable source. Maybe we should just abolish history class in schools as it seems to change... I hear now from History channel that the OK Coral didn't happen either

Britain's response to Jewish refugees fleeing the Nazis also evolved before
and during the war. Soon after Hitler rose to national power in Germany in
January 1933, thousands of Jewish and non-Jewish refugees flocked to Great
Britain, which had a longstanding tradition of admitting those in need of a safe
haven. However, the British government made it rather difficult for refugees to
enter. Based on the country's immigration laws of 1919, no distinction was
made between the refugees and other immigrants to Britain, so the refugees
were not granted any special treatment due to their special situation. Those
that were allowed in were only accepted on a temporary basis

After the Kristallnacht pogrom took place in Germany in November 1938,
pro-refugee groups and certain members of Parliament put a lot of pressure
on the government to change its immigration policy for refugees, and in fact,
unlike other countries at that time, Britain eased its immigration regulations. In
all, more than 80,000 Jewish refugees reached Britain by September 1939.
However, when World War II broke out, Britain banned all emigration from
Nazi-controlled territories. Throughout the rest of the war, only some 10,000
Jewish refugees managed to find their way into Britain. In addition, the British
White Paper of 1939 further limited European Jewry's chances of finding
refuge in that it restricted Jewish immigration to Palestine, which was under
the control of the British Mandate authorities.
For the lucky Jews who had successfully reached Britain before it closed its
doors at the beginning of the war, life was not easy. Many highly educated
people could only find work as domestics. After Germany invaded and
conquered several Northern and Western European countries in mid-1940,
the British public began to panic. Fearing that anyone with a German accent
might be a spy, the British government began imprisoning Germans and
Austrians who had settled in Britain, calling them "enemy aliens." This
included Jewish refugees from Nazi-occupied Germany and Austria. About
30,000 were interned in camps in Britain itself (where in some cases Jews
and pro-Nazi Germans were put together), while 8,000 were deported to
Canada and Australia (some of whom died when their ships were hit by
torpedoes). As the threat of a German invasion passed, the prisoners were
released and some of the deportees were returned to Britain.

This version is from the Jewish Shoah Resource Center, The International School for Holocaust Studies

www1.yadvashem.org...


Whew I guess my time line is still intact...








[edit on 17-8-2009 by zorgon]

reply to post by Exuberant1


Hey do you have any of the Japanese propaganda posters from the same period? You know the ones that told the Japanese civilians that the Americans were rapists and cannibals? You remember the ones that so horrified the Japanese civilians on Okinawa that they jumped from the cliffs than surrender to the American troops?

That would be cool. If not I'll find them and the other ones from Germany.

The Forced Emigration of German Jews

The first major step leading to the Final Solution was the attempt on the part of the Nazi regime to force Jews to emigrate out of Germany. Hitler's motivation seems to have been two-fold: to ensure the racial purity of Germany and to create lebensraum, "living space," for German nationals of "Aryan" blood.

Almost immediately the Nazi government set up an Office of Emigration in Vienna. Adolph Eichmann, the Jewish expert in the SD, was placed in command of the center. There were more than 180,000 Jews in Austria in 1938. Eichmann began deporting Jews as efficiently as possible and by September of 1939, there were only about 60,000 remaining in Austria. But there were still hundreds of thousands of Jews in Germany and in Austria. The Emigration Center encountered serious difficulties finding countries around the world to open their doors to Jews. However, there was enough interest to cause President Roosevelt to call a meeting of some 32 nations to discuss the problem. They convened at Evian, France on July 6, 1938.

In fact, the rest of the world turned a totally deaf ear to the problem. The United States admitted about 100,000 prior to 1939 (during the years from 1933 to 1943, there were 400,000 unfilled slots in the U.S. quota system which had been established by the Johnson-Reed Act of 1924; however, Germany's quota was filled and the quotas were non-transferable!) England accepted 80,000, Holland, 22,000, Belgium, about 13,000, Switzerland, 9,000, Argentina, 20,000, other Latin American countries, about 20,000. British-controlled Palestine only admitted about 70,000 prior to 1941. These numbers are pitifully small in contrast to the fate which Europes 11 million Jews faced in 1933.

Middle Tennessee State University
frank.mtsu.edu...








[edit on 17-8-2009 by zorgon]

reply to post by SLAYER69


Yes, please do Slayer - I love it when we get to see just the old US propaganda posters. You know, since the big bad old US of A was the only country producing propaganda at the time and all....

lol

Originally posted by mf_luder
The allies actually didn't know about the camps until they discovered them during the fight through Germany. I doubt they were complicit and "knew" about the camps. Why do people get away with making rubbish like this up?

This is patently false. The United States and Britain were aware of the concentration camps as early as 1943. (Many claim earlier.)

Though there were reconnaissance photos and decrypts of Enigma messages that clearly showed death camps were in existence. The claim can be made that they did not fully understand what the photos showed and what the messages really meant. (A common claim is that, though the British were aware of the deportation of Jews, they did not believe this action would lead to extermination.)

However damming evidence comes from people like Jan Karski (winner of the University of Michigan's Wallenburg Endowment in 1991) because what he reported could not have been misunderstood.

In 1942 Jan Karski was given a confidential mission by the Polish government in exile. He was smuggled into the Warsaw Ghetto twice to gather evidence of the atrocities.

He later visited what he assumed was the Belzec death camp (Currently it is believed that he actually saw the nearby sorting camp of Izbica.)

When he arrived back in Britain he met with many allied leaders and spoke personally to Anthony Eden (Who was formerly the British Foreign Secretary.)

"In February 1943 I reported to Anthony Eden,” he later wrote. “He said that Great Britain had already done enough by accepting 100,000 refugees.”

In July Karski arrived in the United States and even met President Roosevelt personally to discuss what he had seen.

It is utterly absurd to claim that allied leaders were unaware of what was going on when they were personally briefed by eyewitnesses.

In July 1943 Karski arrived in the United States. Americans offered sympathy when Karski told them what was happening to European Jews. Karski left a secret meeting with Roosevelt believing that his story had not moved the president. But Roosevelt established the War Refugee Board as a result of meeting Karski.

Many hail Karski's efforts as convincing Roosevelt to form the War Refugee Board.

Karski was so disillusioned when the war ended and Allied leaders began expressing shock and surprise at the discovery of the Nazi death camps that he ceased to speak about what he had seen. “I was disgusted,” he said in Ann Arbor. He stayed silent for thirty-five years until Elie Wiesel prevailed on him to speak out in 1981.

(Emphasis added)

Source: University of Michigan

Wiki Article on Jan Karski

Jan Karski Interviews and Documentary Film

[edit on 17-8-2009 by Studious]

reply to post by mf_luder


AH So you don''t want real info like you asked







Toons At War

toonsatwar.blogspot.com...

[edit on 17-8-2009 by zorgon]

reply to post by silo13


Funny this one the VATICAN is ordered in court to release millions of pages and pictures they have kept spirited away all of these years and THIS is all they can come up with? WOW talk about calling the kettle black!
For those that don't know there was a HUGE court battle going on to FORCE the Vatican to release the papers pictures etc.; it was finally won/ordered late last year.
The Vatican then demanded a huge amount of time to go through the material as it was not organized or cataloged it went on and on. Now just a short time later when most of the public has come past the story of them being ORDERED against their will to make the papers public this comes out....BACKLASH ANYONE?
I guess they are angry that no one stood up to defend their right to keep the history books closed on the subject of them knowing full well what was going on the WHOLE TIME. But hey when you have more gold and money than anyone or any country on earth it is supposed to afford you the right to decide who thinks what.,