Obama Would Refuse To Join ObamaCare The $64,000 question finally asked

reply to post by orderedchaos


Well .. lol .. we are already a doped up nation .. pills for everything anymore..

Who, benefits, how and why? That's the bottom line. It always is.

Here is my conclusion thus far. Rising costs of Health Care costs are cutting deep into the INS CO's bottom lines. The spiriling cost + cost of premiums is reducing the amount of profit... So the INS CO's say fine, let's cut these programs loose. Specific "premium" policies will exist for those that can afford it, but government sponsored programs for the rest.. The INS CO will be subsidized and supposedly cost will level out.. The rest of the various ins products won't be effected, and they bring the most profit... cutting out the most expensive part.

Who benefits? The ins co's. Not the consumer. And the Government..

jsobecky:

And you would be correct. Obama refers to it as the "Health Insurance Exchange". It will be your "marketplace for health care options", according to him.

Which is what I find very concerning ... crappy government care that's also expected to return a profit to private corporations. no thank you.

This is just silly. Of course he wouldn't put himself and his family on the universal health care program, he earns enough and holds a job which provides undoubtably superior private health care.

The point of the universal health care program is to ensure that people who don't happen to be president of the united states can still get proper medical treatment. Here in the UK we have a national health service. Of course it's inferior to private health, but it still means that people like my girlfriend who don't earn six figures are able to have life saving operations for free and not have to factor in whether we can really afford to have a tumor removed.

You won't find many high payed NHS surgeons relying on the NHS either, it's not hypocracy it's just common sense. If you can afford better care you get it, if you can't you at least still have a service that will provide you with medical care for free.

Sounds pretty reasonable to me.

Having said that, I'm not sure why Obama couldn't just say "well, no, I'll stick with my private health care, the universal health care option is for people who aren't lucky enough to be in my position" But you can hardly blame him given what a political bug bear it's become.

reply to post by pyehouse


Regardless.. if you tell Americans we will get the same plans he has access to you have no choice but to say "of course I will use the government plan" .. because it should be the same thing..

Except it's not.. he knows that, and I am sure it's a hilarious inside joke at the white house.

You all are failing to realize how health insurance companies operate, they negotiate with hospitals and doctors, they get their prices based on how many people they insure, the doctors and hospitals negotiate fixed prices and in return get the benefit of knowing they will be on the approved list for a giant pool of new customers. When these insurance companies start losing customers for one reason or a nother they lose barganing power. Rates will go up, they will lose more customers.

If this bill passes, one thing is CERTAIN we will lose private insurance, maybe not today or even tomorrow but eventually the insurance companies will have no option but to fold. And that folks requires no interpretaion, simple economics.

reply to post by Rockpuck

Here is my conclusion thus far. Rising costs of Health Care costs are cutting deep into the INS CO's bottom lines. The spiriling cost + cost of premiums is reducing the amount of profit... So the INS CO's say fine, let's cut these programs loose. Specific "premium" policies will exist for those that can afford it, but government sponsored programs for the rest.. The INS CO will be subsidized and supposedly cost will level out.. The rest of the various ins products won't be effected, and they bring the most profit... cutting out the most expensive part.

Come to think of it, would this be such a bad model for health insurance? A two-tiered system:

The basic tier would cover about 75% of routine cases

The deluxe tier would cover the catastrophic cases, and all the elective junk.

Sorta like AAA and AAA+ or Premium.

reply to post by jsobecky


No, in theory such a system would work perfectly. Sadly through bureaucracy the intended purpose is almost always destroyed.. the medical infrastructure established as of now is one which is for profit. To put in place a complete socialist system like Europe or Canada would destroy a massive sector of the economy.. which I seriously doubt the US could recover. So this is going to be a hybrid socialist system combining corporate and government power. Socialism for Profit (also known as Fascism)

What will most likely happen is health care becomes increasingly less profitable and quality deteriorates.. while more people than ever will have that 75% covered, the system being over loaded with minimal new expansion it can only be assumed we will end up like every other socialist system with extreme wait times and red tape out the wazoo.

A premium aspect of any system would work perfectly.. you get what you pay for .. it's the lesser end of the spectrum which is the cause for concern..

People are under the impression this is "free" medical care. In reality it's a tax + a premium for the actual insurance (which would likely be mandated by law) .. if your below a certain income threshold the insurance is free.

It's the same system we have now.. only now everyone has "access" to it, and it's slightly less expensive. The majority of the 1200 page bill is regulation on health practices and has nothing to do with the actual insurance.

EDIT: Just want to say mandating insurance for EVERYONE regardless of conditions IS a good thing.. I support that.. the insurance companies are corrupt beyond belief.. so what are we doing? Putting insurance in charge of a government run program? It's not reform so much as a complete overhaul.

[edit on 8/15/2009 by Rockpuck]

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
Just in case anyone wants to do a reality check (so sorry for imposing it on anyone who loves to avoid it)…the President of the United States is Commander in Chief of the Nation’s Military…

Serious ailments are treated at either the Bethesda Naval Hospital or Walter Reed Army Medical Center depending on the condition. There is a small clinic inside the White House for emergencies and routine checkups of a simple diagnostic nature, with a Doctor either on staff or close by on call 24 hours a day. He is after all Commander in Chief of the United States Military and Chief Executive Officer of the United States Corporation.

Safeguarding his health in a well secured environment is a matter of National Security deemed to always be in the Nation’s best interest.

No this health care plan is not available to you!

This health care plan will never be made available to you unless you become President of the United States.

Now if you really think from a personal standpoint, a National Security Standpoint he is going to opt out of that program of privilege and some would call necessity because of his position of supreme authority…

Well…OK???

I am against the Government getting into Health Care or trying to legislate it too, but come one people. At least try to understand the current system before you create a national epidemic of smashed jaws from your knees jerking so much!

Are you suggesting Obama will be president forever!!!

Oh my god call the press!!

Look, we're not stupid of course he has the best health plan possible, so did Michael Jackson, but that's not the point. The point is if he was not president or in 2012 when he is no longer president will he take part in the coverage? Or will he get special treatment. Remember this HCB does not take effect until 2013 so he will have plenty of time to get on board.

reply to post by PieKeeper


There are sections of the bill that state if you opt out of the plan you would need to pay the govt $2500.00 per anum so that alone would force many into the plan whilst destroying the small insurance companies. AIG is most likely going to be written into this for the benefit of the elitists.

This is bad for the middle class, doctors, employment, everyone but the globalists and 20 million bums who are too lazy to work, as well as 30 million illegal aliens (many of which would be included in the first 20 million).

The elitists are destroying our country and the general populace with every new bill they pass. This one could be the fatal blow that we may never recover from.

[edit on 16-8-2009 by seabisquit]

Here's some wild speculation here, but it seems to make sense to me. Do you think it's possible that this ObamaCare is going to basically be a form of healthcare for the poor, in interviews, Obama has said that if you want to keep your current healthcare that it's fine, but for the the high amount of people working dead end jobs with no healthcare, free healthcare, even if regulated by the government is better than none. Having said that, perhaps those under ObamaCare may be highly suggestible for easy SwineFlu vaccination, likely because it could be the type of people that would be easily persuaded (inner city low class). If you follow many of the other threads on here you'll know all about how the vaccination is probably the real danger from this whole "pandemic" scare, this could be a major play for power or a depopulation project, which I'm sure would be a way for the government to free up the stretch of funds in the country (even though the wealth distribution margin in America is even steeper than before).

Sorry I'm sort of thinking out loud.

Are ya'll who are going off on Obama kidding me??

The plan in plain english reads as :

1. IF YOU LIKE YOUR CURRENT COVERAGE YOU WILL BE UNDER NO LEGAL OBLIGATION TO DROP YOUR CURRENT COVERAGE.

2. YOU ARE NOT BEING REQUIRED OR MANDATED BY ANY LAW TO JOIN THIS COVERAGE. IT'S SOLE INTENT IS TO PLACE THOSE ON THE ROLLS THAT CURRENTLY DO NOT HAVE ANY KIND OF INSURACE WHATSOEVER.

3. THERE WILL BE NO "DEATH PANELS" TO KILL GRANDMA OR YOUR PARENTS.

4. THIS WILL MANDATE ALL COMPANIES WHO CURRENTLY CANNOT OFFER HEALTH INSURANCE TO THIER EMPLOYEES THIS WILL HEREBY ENABLE THEM TO INSURE THIER WORKFORCE.

5. ABORTION IS TO BE ALLOWED IN EXCLUSIVE CASES OF RAPE AND INCEST AS THE MOTHER WAS/IS AN UNWILLING PARTICIPANT IN THE ACT. CONTRACEPTIVES SUCH AS BIRTH CONTROL AND THE "MORNING AFTER" PILL ARE ALSO TO BE COVERED. CONDOMS, "MALE ERECTION" PILLS, KY JELLY, ANY OVER THE COUNTER MEDICATION WILL NOT BE COVERED.

Obama's current coverage is considered some of the best in the world as President of The United States of America. The title affords him the best coverage in the nation.

To flip, attempt to crucify, demonize, trash Obama for opting out of the coverage is riduculous and dumb.

This is the most comprehensive Universal Health Care bill ever brought before the US Congress. We have a very real chance in preventing a home from being forcloused on because of mounting med bills.

reply to post by TheImmaculateD1


That's not bullets from the bill ...... that's just what Obama says at a press conference...

I think during the past 8 years we learned enough that when they say something in a press conference.... almost always means that nothing they said in the press conference is true.

reply to post by Shades1035


Those are just Democratic Party talking points.
Deflect the blame onto the big insurance corporations.
But when you look at the bill .. and it has been spoon fed to you ... it's impossible to deny exactly what is going on. (although some of you are still trying)

Originally posted by TheImmaculateD1
Are ya'll who are going off on Obama kidding me??
The plan in plain english reads as :

Are YOU kidding US?
The plan in plain english has been exactly quoted.
Read the thread. It's all there. The plan in it's own words.

The plan that Obama says congress doesn't have enough time to read so they should just pass it without reading it.

reply to post by Dreamwatcher


They are not "exempt" from the plan. If you read the bill, it is clear that part of the plan is to choose to keep what you have or choose from either for-profit plans which may be available or to choose the public option. No one is going to be kicked out of their current plan.

Originally posted by seabisquit
reply to post by PieKeeper

 

There are sections of the bill that state if you opt out of the plan you would need to pay the govt $2500.00 per anum so that alone would force many into the plan whilst destroying the small insurance companies. AIG is most likely going to be written into this for the benefit of the elitists.

This is bad for the middle class, doctors, employment, everyone but the globalists and 20 million bums who are too lazy to work, as well as 30 million illegal aliens (many of which would be included in the first 20 million).

The elitists are destroying our country and the general populace with every new bill they pass. This one could be the fatal blow that we may never recover from.

[edit on 16-8-2009 by seabisquit]

Could you please provide references to where it says that in the bill? I would like to see that. It's a pretty wild claim to throw out without a reference.

reply to post by sourcesonly


How bout reading the thread and then bitch and complain. It was posted at the beginning.ERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

Bush=Obama Big gov, big tax, big war, big police state, ETC ETC ETC

reply to post by endisnighe


Have you followed the source link? It's a blog post that lists a non-specific 'multiple sources' as it's own reference. There is no mention of who posed that question to Obama, what show it happened on, and the whole post is worded like a chain email. There is no video of the event.

Here are a few other posts from that site:

"In the Bill of Human Rights of Cyrus the Great, we read:Freedom and tolerance of thought, speech, religion; choice of place of residence, coming and going, jobs and professions, will be on equal terms and conditions for everyone.No inquiry, injustice or harassment is allowed to be done to anyone.In this way Cyrus says that I have sown the seed of amity, friendship and affection among nations and have granted the people peace of mind, security, tranquility and comfort. From Cyrus the Great, King of Iran, sixth century B.C. www.youtube.com... toxic skies 10 PARTS EVERY ONE MUST SEE PASS IT ON."

and

"Mo’Nique: ‘All This Damn Weight Came from Popeyes!’

...“I know what it is bein’ at Popeyes at three o’clock in the morning, tryin’ to clean out them fryers. And you tryin’ to clean and eat that chicken at the same time.

“That’s where all this damn weight came from - Popeyes! I was eatin’ during my whole shift.”

To hear Mo’Nique’s full interview, click here."


I don't think he was out of line asking for a better source.

I know this has nothing to do with me since I am Canadian, but I personally think the plan is a great idea especially because it helps those that do not have the money for health insurance. I personally am glad I live in a country with universal healthcare. I pay for my health care through my taxes but it gives me a piece of mind. I don't have to go into debt just to have surgery. As for Obama not wanting to have the plan as his own, I am not surprised. I am sure his healthplan is probably amazing as it is right now. I wouldn't even be surprised if my own PM doesn't use universal healthcare. That's fine, they have the money not to use it.

reply to post by thisguyrighthere

As if that isnt bad enough those of us who do get it are caught between the mob-rule of the morons who dont and the guns and prisons of the oligarchs.

Makes me sick.

Worse if we object to being "fleeced" by the leeches living off "the system" some liberal "activist" has the gall to call us "selfish"

When I follow the lady in the expensive dress and stilletto heels and watch her buy lobster tail and T-bone steak while I buy ramon noodles and hamburger helper, I get real angry when I see the food paid for with food stamps and then watch her walk to the Cadillac left running in the no parking zone in front of the door.

If this was the exception instead of the rule when I lived in a bad city neighborhood, I might be more forgiving, but it was not.

reply to post by ShiftTrio

Though I will admit it is ironic, that we are arguing about choice, and they did make a choice. To screw their employees ugggh.

There should be something in the bill to prevent this type of thing. Perhaps fines for passing the dollar down to cover the fine. That's just disgusting. Because I am afraid one thing you can count on is greed.

Back to economics 101: ANY business is out to make money, if they do not make money they fold. Over 80% of small businesses fold in the first couple of years. What will this do to new business start ups?

Second The 8% tax on businesses is a shell game. Who do you think will really pay? Not the corporations, the American people. If the business is no longer profitable it folds or it packs its bags and heads for China. The stockholders or owner wants a decent return on his investment and risk otherwise he would invest in t-bonds.

"Most people think that corporate income taxes are paid by wealthy, anonymous companies," said Scott Hodge, President of the Tax Foundation. "But as economists have been teaching for years, people bear the burden of corporate taxes, not companies."

Research from the Congressional Budget Office shows that in a global economy where capital is highly mobile but workers can't easily move abroad, workers end up bearing the brunt of corporate taxes. In 2007, Economist William Randolph found that 70 percent of corporate tax burdens fall on employees through lower wages and productivity, while the remaining 30 percent fall on company shareholders. A recent Tax Foundation study shows the federal corporate income tax alone collected $370 billion in 2007. That's an average household burden of $3,190 per year - more than the average household spends on restaurant food, gasoline or home electricity in a year. Source

I think the business that told their employees what would happen if the plan passes just gave their employees a wake-up call and made it very clear where Obama is actually getting the money for his health care plan from, their pockets. Smart move on their part, I applaud them