"Damn The Country, Obama Must Fail"

Hey,the republic was killed a long time ago,we have to re-enstate the republic.

What you are seeing here is democracy.

Democracy never has worked,and never will,and for good reason it always ends up as it is now,and worse.

Just read Socrates,it scared the bejesus out of him too.

And then it killed him.

And it will kill a whole lot of us too.

I can see em comin for miles in my boat,too bad for you land lubbers though.........

Well I have known for along time that politics is corrupt and we need a drastic change.
I had some hope for Obama but that left quickly after I saw he was not sticking to his words like a man should.
What affect will the government have on us in the end?
What do you foresee in the near future for site owners trying to feed their families and do you think they will loosen or tighten privacy laws.

I think I kind of know the answer to that but you were there and i wasn't so I hope you don't mind me asking.

What was the feeling you got?(besides not being heard)



[edit on 11-8-2009 by DrumsRfun]

reply to post by SkepticOverlord

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While the children(our "government") play in the sandbox while the real rulers(big business) sit back and enjoy their illegitimate spoils without worry.


And the collapse of New Rome contiues.....

This is possibly the most important and prudent thread I have ever seen on ATS, thanks for sharing S.O.

[edit on 8/11/2009 by jkrog08]

reply to post by TrustMeIKnow

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No term limits are not the entire answer, but they are part of it...

You've stumbled onto the problem...curtailing the influence of the lobbiests and moneymongers is the key to taking back Washington and the various state houses.

How to do it is the problem. It's going to take a special sort of person to stand up to that sort of influence and win. I don't pretend to have the answer, but there are lots of smart yabbers out there who might have the answers...the key is getting them to get involved.

Involvement in the process is the ultimate key to this.

Thank you for posting this. It connects a couple of dots for me. It would seem that this trip and your observations were the impetus for the recently enacted policy against political bashing. Although we may all know that these things are happening, I can imagine that seeing them first hand does magnify the feeling somewhat that we, here, cannot contribute to it.

They must be laughing their tails off in Washington watching how the media (written and online) and other websites are contributing to their agendas. This is sickening.

Is it too late? It is if the people don't force change and I do not see that happening. By change I guess I mean making lobbyists illegal and imposing term limits. Both of these changes will not be made by the politicians themselves because lobbyists and no term limits benefit the politicians. How could we expect them to want to change them?

Thanks for a very provocative report. While I don't hear a lot of mea culpa out of the Right, I would remind them that a promise to vote Anybody But Republican wouldn't hurt as far as putting their reps back in line. You'd think the whoopin' they got in the last election would motivate them towards presenting a better platform rather than simply tearing down that of the winners.

And while you can blame it on the lobbyists...as some are trying to do...maybe the one that accepts the check might be held accountable as well.

Your right...this isnt a situation that can be changed...the only possible way to end this is if we elect someone who basically disbans the republic and we switch to a democracy...but that will never happen...because that would also disban all the lobbiest organizations and put power back into the hands of the individuals verses the representitives.

There is no alternatives, there is no way out of it. we are a dead system. neither side can change that even if they truely wanted to (which they flat out don't)

Hopefully history will learn from this disaster and never repeat the mistake that is known as a republic again. Want to give the power to the people? sure...make damn sure its a proper democracy though...once you elect a representitive to speak for you, its over.

This would work. And I think any form of government would work, providing that the people in charge were "high-quality" people with integrity. Even our Republic would work if the people in Washington had any integrity any more. But they don't.

And let's face it, that's just not going to happen. No one is going to come along and "save us". No one can. The machine won't allow it. The love of money won't allow it.

So what do we do? If nothing we do makes any difference; if the government is no longer of the people, by the people and for the people, what do the people do? If voting doesn't matter; if writing and calling our representatives doesn't make a bit of difference; if protesting is pointless... what do we do?

Thanks you for sharing your experience. Writing about our thoughts and suspicions on ATS, and learning what I learn here is scary enough, but hearing it from the inside makes my stomach sink and my jaw goes slack...

It is truely sad to see when opposites cannot learn to "get along" for the benefit of the nation. Obama was elected and I can accept that he is our President even though I did not vote for him.

This is the epitemy of the phrase "sore loser".

Interesting thread SO.

Problem:
US controlled by big money, lobbies, and never ending big government that is clearly at this point not listening to its people. But it's really way way worse than that. It is a runaway, rogue government hellbent on global domination at the expense of every single one of us. That means your life, your children's lives, and all your money. They own us and toss us around like a cat does a mouse in its mouth.

Reaction:
And anyone wonders why a thousand revolution threads keep sprouting up like fresh seeds in a pool of fertilizer? The people know. There is talk on the street. I hear it.

Solution:
The people know. And the people are waiting for their brothers in arms to do something. We do not want to go up against those with the big guns. We are simply waiting for those with the big guns to take this country back and get rid of these criminals, reinstate the constitution at it core and reinstate fair elections. The talk is spreading upwards from its roots in family to the highest levels of the treetops. And the tree is going to have to be dismantled in reverse order, leaving control back at the roots. And this means power back to the states. And the dismantling of any central control of the National Guard and return of all troops to their home states, even from overseas bases, which is killing us.

The lobbies have got to go. The bailouts have to go. The illegal immigrants have to go. The selling out of our labor and manufacturing to overseas interests for additional profits has to go. The fed has to go. And fiat currency has got to go. The bankers need to be incarcerated, and banking should be made illegal. Keep your own money, by God, and if you get too much then hire someone to protect it. And speaking of money, we need real money, like solid gold and silver. Not paper.

And we need Ron Paul. Now.

All I can say about the partisan rancor on Capital Hill is that Senator Mel Martinez of Miami (where I am from) a first term Republican Senator is retiring before completing his first term, stating publicly that he does not feel he can contribute anything positive in the current legislative environment on the Hill.

His constituents like him (I am not a fan because of form emails he has sent me in reply to my positions stating how glad he is that I am for his position which is the opposite of mine) and he could likely win his own seat for a second term if he chose to.

He is not elderly infirm or particularly wealthy and being a United States Senator certainly has its perks and privileges.

Yet he states because of the overwhelming minority his party is in, in all the legislative branches of government that the opportunities for him to legislate is simply not there.

That he can contribute nothing positive.

So to that end I do believe Skeptic Overlord is 100% correct in his assessment that the Republicans are out to get the Democrats at all cost.

Having said that though, I really feel like our government is out to get us at all costs too.

The rancor regarding the Health Care debate is entirely pointless because the reality is that the House, Senate and White House are controlled by the Democrats and nothing would have prevented them from passing ANY health bill that they wanted on any schedule that they wanted.

We are either therefore being fed the simple spectacle of bread and circuses and a dog and pony show for pure sadistic entertainment and chaos for the sake of chaos, or the special interests have the Democrats so hog tied that the Democratic Leadership knows, fears or suspects that it can't count on representatives with in it's own party to stand by Democrat Party Platform principals, the House and Senate Leaders, and the President all of who ideally share the same platform and party.

Either way the complete and utter dishonesty that is being fed to the country is ripping it apart at the seems and serves no purpose.

I frankly haven't trusted any President starting with George Washington, I think it's always been a manipulated lie and that is what government does is manipulate the populace through carefully crafted and staged lies to comply and conform.

If I had planned for the future better I would be moving to Costa Rica long about now!

I think we need to throw every politician out of office from Obama down and water board Ron Paul and Kucinich just to make sure they are as honest as they appear and then decide to let them stay.

We need to get special interests out of government, break up the hidden monopolies so small business can compete on a more even playing field again and while I seriously doubt we have ever been governed by our actual Constitutional principals we ought to give it a try just once for ____ & giggles if nothing else.

That's my 2 cents which adjusted for inflation works out to $8,962,153,471.16 cents...oh please put the check in the mail, I could use another pack of smokes soon!




[edit on 11/8/09 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]

reply to post by Springer

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Thank you. Sometimes somebody else says things that I mean to, but cannot seem to word properly.

I believe we need to trade CAREER POLITICIANS for CITIZEN STATESMEN.

So what exactly is Obama doing to STOP funneling taxpayer money to the bankers? NOTHING.

Obama doesn't need any help to fail; he's doing it all on his own.

Why is in this country that the party and people committing the problems never get any blame or responsibility. The Republicans have essentially been a terrorist organization for the last few months, yet it's all the lobbyists or the people's or whoever's fault. I personally blame the source.

I fully disagree. This is true form republic. if the people all had equal vote, and all things to be voted on were done by what the public wanted verses what some large corp wanted, that is the defination of a democracy.

A republic is when you get together and elect someone to speak for you...
what is easier for a corporation to buy out...a single person in power or a bunch of people sitting in their homes voting?

Republics are disasters...people are corruptable when given power...a lobby firm takes its case to a representitive, not to the people...when was the last time you were sitting at home and some lobby group came to your door and asked you to vote on this or that on a daily basis?

No...republics blow. Democracy is the way to go...we have never experienced a democracy in America (and frankly nowhere else in the world has a democracy because it gives too much power to the people).

Socrates issues with democracy is that people are unthinking idiots as a rule...but hey, if we sink the ship, its because of our ineptness and not the corruption of a few people representing us.

I have no doubt that this is the way it has been for a long time and the way it continues to be.

I take the long view ...
Our most recent President was elected on a platform of ridding Washington of lobbyists and changing the way things operate.

Has he succeeded in keeping those campaign promises? No.
Has he made progress? IMO maybe yes, but if so only baby steps.

What interests me more is the fact that the specific rhetoric of ridding DC of Lobbyists helped get him elected. It resonated. It's grown as a hot-button topic and will be present in future elections.

Now how do we turn that from rhetoric to reality? We have to work to hold politicians accountable. Press for more transparency and make sure the Media at large pays closer attention. Geez if the talking heads can discuss the birther movement...then we should be able to bring this to the fore.

How about a specific forum on ATS..."Money and Politics" where members chase down the financial backers behind candidates and initiatives? It would definetly pick up steam during elections, both congressional and presidential.

I have always found these two sites helpful in determining who pulls the strings.

The Secret Money Project on NPR
www.npr.org...


OpenSecrets.org: Money in Politics -- See Who's Giving & Who's Getting
www.opensecrets.org...

reply to post by CuriousSkeptic

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Y'see that's part of the problem right there... It's not just the Republicans... It's the democrats, it's the special interest groups who play "both" sides... It's you, its me, it's the voters who are so damned apathetic that they're willing to stay home and watch their country go to Hell in a handbasket. Yet some are still playing silly buggers with the partisan rhetorical nonsense...

No one group has a monopoly on the blame... I would submit that we need to quit acting like that, and look at what actually is happening...but then that would mean giving up the hate, wouldn't it?

reply to post by SkepticOverlord

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Thanks for an amazing thread! It's kind of scary to actually get an eye-witness affirmation of our conspiracies. I hope anyone who reads this takes the label "conspiracy theorist" with a grain of salt the next time they hear it on the MSM.

I do have a question for you, SO:



As to this quote, can you elaborate? Was the lobbyist implying that the lobbying industry is specifically targeting Obama's Administration through the Republican party? Does this mean that Obama's Administration is actively opposed to the bulk of lobbyists?

Thanks for the clarification.

And you think that having one Party in control of the Executive, Senate and Congress is helping matters? If we were to have had a split Congress, I bet we would have had some better legislation come out.

incidently, props for making a political thread thats a actual conspiracy...refreshing