"Damn The Country, Obama Must Fail", page 4

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reply posted on 11-8-2009 @ 03:58 PM by seagull

reply to post by Riposte

Lest anyone think that I'm picking on dems with my previous post. This is just as bad... President Obama is not working in a vacuum. It's not just him...it's not just the GOP...

...IT'S US, FOR ALLOWING THE POLITICIANS TO THINK THEY'RE SOMETHING RESEMBLING GODS...

reply posted on 11-8-2009 @ 03:59 PM by Benevolent Heretic

Originally posted by CuriousSkeptic
Why is in this country that the party and people committing the problems never get any blame or responsibility.

There's enough blame to go around. I certainly blame the element of the Republican party who have this "Damn the Country, Obama Must Fail" attitude. And that includes just about every Republican politician, pundit and spokesperson. MANY regular people who are Republicans, however, aren't involved in the failure-at-any-cost movement, and so blaming the party is too wide a net, IMO.

But the Limbaugh, Palin, Gingrich, Boener crowd definitely hold some of the responsibility.

reply posted on 11-8-2009 @ 04:04 PM by CoffinFeeder

reply to post by SkepticOverlord

Hey ~

First, I wouldn't worry about bias. Most here who have any rationality and experience in it know that you pretty much keep it neutral when it comes to this site despite any bias you may have personally.

Considering the way things were, had you went there about 3 years before the presidential election (when bush was still in office), do you feel the attitude would have been "Get Bush" instead?

It is an unfortunate thing that for the most part, "We the People" has been replaced with "We the Paid Special interest Lobbyists" for a while now. Why we can't shut that cancer of society out of the buildings is a tragedy.

reply posted on 11-8-2009 @ 04:04 PM by Springer

When I said term limits, I meant as the starting point, certainly not the solution...

The current career politicians spend up wards of 2/3rds of their term RAISING MONEY for their mega million dollar re-elections.

Guess where that money comes form?

If it's experience you want and therefor are against term limits, then the second part of the plan should work for you because it would HELP, even without term limits.

100% of ALL campaign funds must come from the Federal and State Governments, everyone gets the same amount and NOBODY is taking bribes, er, donations from special interests anymore.

Let the voters decide who used the money the best way with their votes.

Sadly as long as we are apathetic and lazy this is all moot.

Springer...

reply posted on 11-8-2009 @ 04:05 PM by seagull

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic

But the Limbaugh, Palin, Gingrich, Boener crowd definitely hold some of the responsibility.

yep, indeed they do. Lets add some other names to that grouping...

Kennedy, Reid, Palosi, and Boxer...and a plethora of others from both sides of the so called political spectrum...

I've said this, and frankly I'm getting a little tired of saying it, but lets place the blame where it belongs. It ain't just the Dems, it ain't just the Reps., nor even the special interests. These all make wonderful targets, and should be ashamed of doing what they've done... However, the blame will fit very nicely onto the shoulders of the Americans that allowed this, through their apathy and laziness, to occur.

reply posted on 11-8-2009 @ 04:05 PM by schrodingers dog

reply to post by SkepticOverlord

Thanks for the info and very well put ...

"Exasperation" is the word I find myself using with increased frequency, and the feeling of such, as it relates to American politics, seems to be a semi-permanent one these days.

However I do diverge a little with you in terms of the future ...

Not in terms of hope mind you, as hope is just another human concept like fear, easily manipulated and imo mostly useless.

Rather I find comfort in a fundamental "macro" knowing that life gets most violent (emotionally, physically, psychologically, spiritually, intellectually and existentially) just before major paradigm shifts.

I believe what we are observing is akin to the last throws of a dying star ...

Those stuck and invested in the old paradigm are being dragged kicking and screaming, and their ego will fight to the very end. The current political atmosphere is just but one manifestation of this. The same thing is happening, though less noticeably, in spiritual and scientific circles.

Perhaps there is little consolation in this awareness, especially because this only the beginning of this paradigm cycle and it WILL get worse before it gets better.

I chose to look at it as an extraordinary time to be alive, I may not be around in this form to see the dawn but I embrace the opportunity to be a part of this epoch.

How appropriate that you bring this up today ...

On the eve of the 40th anniversary of en.wikipedia.org...

[edit on 12 Aug 2009 by schrodingers dog]

reply posted on 11-8-2009 @ 04:06 PM by SkepticOverlord

Originally posted by Avenginggecko
Was the lobbyist implying that the lobbying industry is specifically targeting Obama's Administration through the Republican party?

My take was, that the current (unspoken?) Republican strategy is focused on "screwing Obama."

It doesn't take long to create a list of powerful and money-rich interest groups that would be opposed to much of Obama's stated and apparent agenda. And my take was that those interest groups and their lobbyists are aligned with the Republicans to... "screw Obama."

While the opposing party has always had "hatchet men" focused on the President... it was never the all-out-war that we seem to have now. A partisan "war" that is an irresponsible and insulting slap in the face of the entire nation.

reply posted on 11-8-2009 @ 04:08 PM by Mr.Hyde

So with this information, what are we to do?

I believe everyone here is aware that Voting is pointless. (I always find it funny that MSM heavily critiques other nations voting practices and is quick to note the levels of corruption) The electronic voting machines have been proven to be susceptible to hacks and manipulation.

My point being - Voting members of Congress and the Senate wont mix a thing. We can not vote this army of Lobbyists out. We can't help but buy items/services from the companies that put these Lobbyists in Washington. So the OP is correct in saying are system is so far derailed we may be screwed.

reply posted on 11-8-2009 @ 04:12 PM by Benevolent Heretic

reply to post by seagull

I'm speaking specifically to the current "Damn The Country, Obama Must Fail" portion of our program.

But as far as the whole picture of our government failing, yes. they're all to blame.

Where I DON'T put the blame is the people who do their jobs, contribute to society, obey the law (for the most part) vote, want what's right for this country, write our Congresspeople, get involved and CARE about what's happening. We're not lazy or apathetic. It just doesn't matter any more because the money is a LOT more important to those who hold the keys.

But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.

reply posted on 11-8-2009 @ 04:13 PM by Chilled Zen

reply to post by SkepticOverlord

Obama's media "Halo" seems to be showing the first signs of slippage, lower poll ratings and difficulty passing certain bills ect. If all the Republicans want to do is trash Obama doesn't that show that Left and Right are just warring factions of a broken 2 party system which has a lick of paint once in a while, but the decaying foundation stays the same.

The best thing to do would be to get rid of lobbyist's and their system, after all politicians are SUPPOSED to listen to their constituents. However the very people who could abolish the system (elected representatives) are the ones who get money from the lobbyists+special interests, would they ever do it? It would take a brave President to get rid of it.

reply posted on 11-8-2009 @ 04:15 PM by NoJoker13

Of course there's hope you identifying the problem means that you have given alot of people a new found insight. I think all this underminding will just set the republicans back. The government needs to start working together absolutely. Thanks for your insight I'll talk about it at the office in the morning.

[edit on 11-8-2009 by NoJoker13]

reply posted on 11-8-2009 @ 04:17 PM by seagull

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic

Politically, a lot of us are most certainly apathetic. Oh, we all have our excuses, but let's be honest here, that's what they are: Excuses. If we really wanted to be involved, we'd find the time somewhere...somehow. If only in sending emails, writing to editorial pages...even yakking on line...

Not saying they aren't contributing members of society, just politically apathetic.

In a complete aside: Welcome back. I've missed arguing with you...

reply posted on 11-8-2009 @ 04:21 PM by schrodingers dog

Originally posted by seagull
reply to post by Benevolent Heretic

Not saying they aren't contributing members of society, just politically apathetic.

It seems the 90-9-1 paradigm is not for the interwebs alone.

reply posted on 11-8-2009 @ 04:23 PM by lagnar

Republics, Democracies, Term Limits, Voting and Idealists all have their good and bad points, and really, none are remarkably unworkable systems, but they are all irrelevant in a fascist state of being in which corporations' lobbyists (and thus profit) are in full control.

It truly is our fault for not checking and balancing our administrators as our Constituted duty implies, but this should have been recognized long ago as highly erroneous malicious practice aimed at monetary gain and an amendment to the Constitution of the United States adopted prohibiting campaign contributions from anyone. Couldn't we all agree on something as simple as a capped campaign tax (meant to be the only money they could spend) if it meant that special interests (money) would not have control. Campaign contributions should be deemed treasonous, as it is apparent that profit motive has dictated and will dictate this nation into oblivion until we do something about it.

reply posted on 11-8-2009 @ 04:25 PM by Benevolent Heretic

Originally posted by seagull
If we really wanted to be involved, we'd find the time somewhere...somehow. If only in sending emails, writing to editorial pages...even yakking on line...

But sending emails, writing to editorial pages, yakking online doesn't help. This is what I asked in my first post. If nothing we do matters to Washington, but they let us think it does, then what IS the right thing to do? What CAN we do? I get the message from SO's post that NOTHING we do is going to make a damn bit of difference. It's wasted effort. It's a complete and total waste to vote, to write, to protest. They just "let" us do it so we feel like we're contributing to the running of this country, while they do what puts money in their pocket and protects their political futures.

In a complete aside: Welcome back. I've missed arguing with you...

Thanks... I think.

[edit on 11-8-2009 by Benevolent Heretic]

reply posted on 11-8-2009 @ 04:26 PM by seagull

reply to post by schrodingers dog

Yes. That does seem to be the way of it. That's something that we must address, and fix somehow, before anything will change. IMHO. How to do it, that's the question. I'm not sure I know the answer, save keep encouraging people to get active and involved in the process. I don't really care how, that's not important... The involvement is key. Does that make sense?

reply posted on 11-8-2009 @ 04:28 PM by grover

reply to post by SkepticOverlord

I have to agree wholeheartedly...I like to say that I have no faith in the Democrats but I have less faith in the Republicans.

I cannot help but feel a new party would be no different...

What bothers me to no end is the cultivation of hate.

reply posted on 11-8-2009 @ 04:29 PM by seagull

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic

It's not wasted, BH...if enough of us voice our opinions and act on those opinions at the ballot box...or if SO's gloomier suppositions occur...in the revolution. Things have to change. Fear of livlihood is a wonderful motivator, or even fear for their lives...

It's only wasted if we don't try.

Not trying is what these powermongers want. Apathy plays right into the hands of those who "know better than the great unwashed"...

reply posted on 11-8-2009 @ 04:32 PM by N3krostatic

Very interesting and unsettling to say in the least that this has moved from conspiracy to real life. However I am forced to ask myself why are the republicans trying to undermine Obama as they are. Is it simply because of his stance on certain views and because he is the opposing party or is there something else. Is there a deeper reason they are hell bent on stopping him?

Maybe not but the whisper enters my mind, begging for recognition that a potential reason this is happening is because, maybe, just maybe he could make a difference. (speculation only here)

Either way politics are politics. Just wondering if the real reason this political warfare is ensuing is because it's over money and tradition or something deeper. Maybe it is just the same old fight that's been going on for years... Either way S&F and thank you for the insight.

[edit on 11-8-2009 by N3krostatic]

reply posted on 11-8-2009 @ 04:32 PM by Lhuhikwdwoo

another possible tool comes to mind here, in addition to term limits and regulating or abolishing lobbying. Namely take advantage of the power of the internet offers and force the legislators to remain in their home district, and not allowed to vote unless some set number of constituents proven not to belong to some special interest are in ear shot of them. this wouldn't really affect the costs of running the houses, but lobbying would become much more expensive, as the lobbyists would have to send representatives to at least 25 senator's offices and more congressman's offices to get anywhere, and at each place they would have to compete with vocal citizens. The one caveat would be that all the classified issues would have to be dealt with by the president.