It seems that no one can understand why it is bad when we do terrible acts (rape and murder, as Rumsfeld has said that we have done). Let's say, when Kuwait or Saudi Arabia doesn't hold free elections, you don't hear to much about it. But if we didn't hold free elections, the world would go nuts. Why? Because it goes against everything we stand for. We have higher morals and standards that our country was founded on, and we fight to uphold those freedoms throughout the world. Someone asked where is the liberal outcry over this? Even though the story is an hour old, where is there not a liberal outcry? Better yet, where is the conservative outcry? They want bad things to happen, they want to keep you angry and confused, so you won't think critically about why we are there and who is making money off of this invasion/occupation. It's a terrible thing that has been done, but it's just some bad apples. Or like you torture apologists would say, "I'm sure the people in command didn't know what was going on." In no way should these acts be condoned on either side, but wake-up and admit both sides are doing them!

Your so absolutely right there Native.....geez, we have those fools/"idiots" at Abu Ghraib (sp) to sooo thank for this.
Hell, why don't we just add Bush, Rumsfeld, Ted Kennedy, CBS, General Taguba, etc, etc, etc, etc.!

Good grief!!



seekerof

[Edited on 11-5-2004 by Seekerof]

Originally posted by nativeokie
Based on this quote from the video it is going to probably get much worse. And we have those idiots at the prison to thank.

Those idiots ath the prison to thank?!?

Oh, yes the Al-Qaida "heros" would never have done anything like this unless the evil Americans had forced some Iraqis to walk around with their johnsons hanging out.

It sure seem perportionate to me. Maybe next your buddies cam barbeque a couple of more GIs and use the body parts as footballs in response to the simulated oral sex claim.

Originally posted by JediMaster
I'm waiting for Kerry to condem this action and in 2 weeks, say they were right to retaliate.

And somehow this will be Bush's fault in their eyes.

It's Bush who insisted to "do the job in Iraq"...let he assume his choices now !

Of course arabs are angry, now, have you seen these pix ? It's not an isolate case, the Washington post (a serious newspaper) said they have more than 1000 photos like this.

What do you think they say about U.S. and us (UN) ? Thats they are right. That we bring them pornography, violence and rape. That's what we call "democracy" ?

From now, you can consider that the vietnam war was a joke compared to what await the "coalition" in Iraq !

[Edited on 11-5-2004 by Nans DESMICHELS]

You know what they are to blame, I am not saying those terrorist would not have done this anyway, but now we give them a freakin excuse to shout to the world.

Cause and effect.

BTW: Terrorist are Bad, America is good. Seems you jumped right to the evil american terror good stance in replying to me. You know you can disagree with someone still and not be a terror lover. Not sure if you knew that or not.

Also calling them my buddies? That is offensive to me at all levels.



[Edited on 5/11/2004 by nativeokie]

In another post on the Abu Gharib prisoner abuse I said that overblowing of this would lead to further American deaths, unfortunatly it did not take long. Coverups obviously are not a good thing but the prisoner abuse subject COULD have been handled in a different way in light of the fact that we are at war and have people in harms way.

YOU LEFTIES SHOULD NOW GO WASH THE BLOOD FROM YOUR HANDS, ARE YA HAPPY NOW!

Originally posted by Nans DESMICHELS
From now, you can consider that the vietnam war was a joke compared to what await the "coalition" in Iraq !

[Edited on 11-5-2004 by Nans DESMICHELS]

Is this something you have inside information on? Bold statement you got going there.

Originally posted by NetStorm

Originally posted by Nans DESMICHELS
From now, you can consider that the vietnam war was a joke compared to what await the "coalition" in Iraq !

[Edited on 11-5-2004 by Nans DESMICHELS]

Is this something you have inside information on? Bold statement you got going there.

No, that's sure. You know how are the muslims. When they will see these pix, the resistance will get more and more people. If you stay there, now, it wont be only with Iraqis that you will have problems but with the whole muslim world !

Anyway, all this story is a shame, and the US army have no excuses !

Most of people prisonners in US prisons in Iraq even dont know what they have done, or what they are accused to.

Now, it's you, the savages, the barbarians, the torturers...

You should better let Saddam to power !

Originally posted by Nans DESMICHELS
Now, it's you, the savages, the barbarians, the torturers...
You should better let Saddam to power !

So Nans are you saying that we should not have made any action against a leader who gassed, and killed his own people?

Originally posted by PhoenixYOU LEFTIES SHOULD NOW GO WASH THE BLOOD FROM YOUR HANDS, ARE YA HAPPY NOW!

I dont think it's a question of left or right but it's about humanism, simply. Err... in fact you can say it's a question of knoledge of the good and the bad !

Bush always says he is in the good camp to fight the axis of evil, but look.

The drama is that you're military dont have any notion of the good and the bad, and that's why they took these scenes in picture. They simply have no councious or respect of the human behing !

I know that sodomy is forbidden in texas, and can lead you to prison, if you are charged about that crime. That's a major crime, and founders of american laws knew it : And know it's authorised in Iraq ?!

I think that in USA the ultra-cons and puritans are shocked like me of this. And who is the responsible ? Bush !

Originally posted by Nans DESMICHELS
From now, you can consider that the vietnam war was a joke compared to what await the "coalition" in Iraq !

More of that Chirac hopeful and wishful thinking Nans?

Originally posted by Nans DESMICHELS
Now, it's you, the savages, the barbarians, the torturers...

You should better let Saddam to power !

No Nans, you nor anyone else will take what a few have done and use it as a 'Frenchie' label to denounce the whole Coalition, the whole US military, or the whole USofA!
Having researched into the French, and others reasoning against this war, its amazing that you still deny them. Sure you wish Saddam had remianed in control of Iraq.....more money in Chirac's pockets, more money for the poor French economy, and myriads of other reasons for.

Tell you what, you want Saddam back in power, the French know where he is kept, come get him out.



seekerof

[Edited on 11-5-2004 by Seekerof]

Originally posted by Nans DESMICHELS
Now, it's you, the savages, the barbarians, the torturers...
You should better let Saddam to power !

Why is it that I don't hear people crying foul for the four guys they incinerated and drug thru the streets?
Or Daniel Pearl who they also beheaded, and so many others will will never hear about.
The problem here is we DO NOT have access to what they do to our guys until they want us to see it.
I am NOT justifiying what a few American/Coalition soldiers did as right,but you on the other hand are putting "us" all in the same group and saying the WE are the barbarians and torturers

Originally posted by JediMaster
Where's the liberal outcry over this? There won't be any, they don't care about Americans getting killed, just terrorist getting nude and having underwear on their head.

I'm not a liberal, but I really don't blame them. While the guy who got his head cut off had nothing to do with the revenge, besides being the victim, neither did the Iraqi prisoners we've abused. This doesn't surprise me in the least.

Its too late to pull out of Iraq, if we do now it will make America and the Coalition look like cowards. Its time we get more aggressive with these scumbags.

You mean nuke them, don't you? If not, how would you get more aggressive? Kill and torture more Iraqis? Kill them all? (That's not possible, really.) Is that going to solve this vicious circle problem? I don't think you've thought this through.

Originally posted by nativeokie

You know you can disagree with someone still and not be a terror lover. Not sure if you knew that or not.

Also calling them my buddies? That is offensive to me at all levels.

Actually you are right and I apologize. My anger is up over this, and your opinion is just as valid as mine.

Maybe it's time the United States took of the gloves and fought this war the way Osama and his cronies are.

Maybe we should execute Al Qauda terrorists and known Iraqi insurgents live in the middle of Bahgdad with a statement that if anything like this happens again we will respond in kind.

I'm not sure we can ever win a war when we are the only ones even trying to play by the rules.

Originally posted by Seth Bullock
Actually you are right and I apologize. My anger is up over this, and your opinion is just as valid as mine.
Maybe it's time the United States took of the gloves and fought this war the way Osama and his cronies are.
Maybe we should execute Al Qauda terrorists and known Iraqi insurgents live in the middle of Bahgdad with a statement that if anything like this happens again we will respond in kind.
I'm not sure we can ever win a war when we are the only ones even trying to play by the rules.

But isn't that what we are supposedly attempting to do? Show them a better way of life with democracy? If we use the methods that they do then aren't our ways just as twisted as that of a terrorist? This, of course, is all said with a twist of lime.

See the above post for my answer. And please, don't started to say that I'm having a patriotic statement. That's not it. I didn't talked about France and chirac. In France, today, we have some other problems.

I know what the French army have done in Algeria and Africa also. I mean torture. I've seen many documentary about the Algeria war, and I condamn the French actions in Algeria like I condamn what happen in Iraq.

In Europe, we are not patriots, like you in USA. I think it's because you are a young nation yet. On the old continent, we have habits with powerfull people exactions. We had kings, we was slaved of lords for about 1800 years. And even after, the dictature came back in the person of Napoléon. I not proud of Napoleon.

In Europe we are not patriot because we know what are the nations when there lead by tyrans.

Originally posted by Seth Bullock
I'm not sure we can ever win a war when we are the only ones even trying to play by the rules.

That's just it. We never play by the rules...not even our own. We make them up as we go along. If we find out that they don't jive, we just redefine a few lines and continue. The only way I see us "winning" this war, will be killing them all. That's not my idea of winning, though. I don't think this is a win/lose situation, honestly. It's more of a "how do we get the hell out of this one?" situation.

Originally posted by JediMaster

Originally posted by Nans DESMICHELS
Now, it's you, the savages, the barbarians, the torturers...
You should better let Saddam to power !

So Nans are you saying that we should not have made any action against a leader who gassed, and killed his own people?

These forced "liberation" is senseless and have destabilized the middle east for a long time.

Saddam was a dictator, true, but in fact, when the power was in his hand, he controlled enought the Iraq territory to empeache a civil war to start.
Now they will lead ersistance against the coalition, sure. And when the coalition will be gone, they will certainly fight together, like ever.

Yes, I think it's better to let the peoples of the world decide of them destiny by themselves.