Barbara Boxer Objects To Health Care Protesters' "Attire"

Originally posted by ProfEmeritus
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

 

Zin and PT,
I just saw a news blip on Drudge, that says that a Dem Congressman says what is happening now is close to Nazi Brown Shirt tactics. The problem is that he is talking about citizens at town hall meetings!
He is partially right- the tactiics are those of Nazi Brown Shirts. However, it is the Administration that are the brown shirts, not citizens expressing freedom of speech.

Disturbing News Reports continue to appear left and right on this issue.

Today the AFL-CIO stated that Corporate Health Care is hiring and bussing in people to these town hall meetings and they will rise to that challenge by showing up to town hall meetings themselves in mass and prepared to counter any violence or dispruption presumably with violence of their own.

This in many ways is even a worse development than baseless accusations of Gestapo like tactics by Corporate opposition.

When the Unions start acting in that fashion in that capacity it is and can only be a precurser to what Unionization's underlying principal has always been about...Communism.

These are the exact tactics that Communists use to effect a takeover, having organized Union Mobs acting 'independently' on behalf of the 'Government' to further the government's agenda.

The AFL-CIO has no more business attempting to carry out a 'policing' role than the Administration has calling citizens who are not in favor of the healthcare proposals Brown Shirt Nazis.

It's clear that the skilled use of the Birther Issue and the Gates/Cowley affair has all been orchestrated to draw emotionally charged lines and sides.

If the Administration had a lick of sense, and Congress had a lick of sense it would table the whole health care issue for now and let passions on both sides of the aisle calm down.

The Government and the Nation can't afford a major overhaul of the existing systems right now anyway and should be busy carefully administering the trillions of dollars in corporate charity handouts via the bailouts to make sure that money gets maximum results for the tax payer's dollar.

The Health Care Bill itself far from being finalized with nary a politician from Obama on down able to speak intelligently to what's actually in it, but rather just emotionally as to what's not in it, while promising what ever is in it is something people really want to have is nothing but a deflectionary issue from the moribund state of the economy and a deflectionary issue history itself clearly shows will fail.

Hillary's Health Bill, can you say FIASCO, every time they try a Health Bill it goes no where and they had to know this one would go no where too, considering they have enough dunderheads in the administration who have seen these things go nowhere.

This is not about health care, this is about divide and conquer tactics being used to usher in a socialist/communist style totaltarian rule.

People will soon be ready to take up arms on this issue if cooler and smarter heads don't step in and put this rancorous and inflamatory debate which is really centered on the Administration's belief that it's policies and edicts can not and should not be legitimately challenged or questioned and nothing to do at all with Health Care.

Obama doesn't even know what's in the Bill. The Senators and Congress People don't even know what's in the Bill.

They just know that they can get people to fight over it and they are and they will and that they can use that to their advantage.

I say we fight the good fight and make it worth the price we pay.

Give me Liberty or Give me Death, I shall offer no quarter to the opponents of free speech and democracy.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


The only thing disturbing is how the same people who believed the KBC was real also believe the rest of what their overlords speak into their ears.

Not enough real skeptics around these days.

That's pretty much it.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


Again, your analysis is quite impressive. I think that what you described regarding counter attacks by unions and the administration is EXACTLY what Obama meant, when his mouthpiece said to Dem congressional members:

If you get hit, we will punch back twice as hard

We are now seeing them punch back twice as hard. Isn't that amazing? They feel that they have to punch taxpayers hard? On second thought, that is what they have been doing to us for a long time now.

reply to post by HunkaHunka


I guess you are speaking about the Kenyan Birth Certificate? I am not an expert in Kenyan documents so I can't comment on it, since I didn't even look at it.

Why is it you assume everyone is some mindless minion of someone else or something else?

You have already exposed your own motivation in the Health Care debacle to simply be about divesting yourself of the costs of Employee Health Care anyway you can, as quick as you can, and while that might make good business sense for you and your business that’s hardly altruistic, charitable or noble on your part.

It’s pretty simple Hunka at various times over the decades Americans actually end up coming to a fundamental crossroads that leads some people to take to the streets and protest.

The last time America saw that kind of political upheaval was during the Civil Rights Movement and Hippie Counter Culture days.

Yes it could be argued that Rosa Parks and the media spurred people into being vocal and visible.

Yes it could be argued that Abbie Hoffman and Timothy Leary and the Beatles, Jimi Hendrix, The Who, Janis Joplin, The Doors, The Grateful Dead and Crosby, Stills, Young and Nash with an assist by Joanie Mitchell and Company spurred people to be vocal and visible.

They were still visible and vocal and as long as they aren’t breaking any real laws while being visible and vocal Americans have a right to assemble and protest.

What you DON’T have a right to do is decide WHAT they have a right to assemble and protest about, or HOW they choose to assemble, or WHAT they are allowed or not allowed to accomplish by their lawful and peaceful assembly and protest.

To date, no one has been hurt, no property has been destroyed. Yes some arrogant politicians who have too long felt entitled have been humiliated and frankly I don’t recommend public office for anyone who isn’t prepared to be and capable of being humble.

This is what is going to end up being the downfall of the current Administration its own inability to be humble.

Americans are allowed to protest, you are allowed to protest that Americans are allowed to protest. Yet you still can’t change the Constitution just because it suits your current agenda of divesting yourself of the responsibility and burden of economically paying for a portion of your Employees Health Care.
No one is saying the Administration is not allowed to present it’s case for the health bill, and it has with prime time speeches, news conferences, websites, and efforts through congress and the media.

The people still have a right to ask questions, they still have a right to say it’s a bad idea if they feel it’s a bad idea, and they have a right to not vote the Congress People or Senators that refuse to hear them, improperly or inaccurately portray their protests and questions, or fail to heed the majority of their constituents.

All political parties have organizations, and organization is used in everything from how 5 Guys makes a Hamburger to how Mazda makes your minivan. The fact that the issue is important enough and contentious enough to cause organizations to get involved does not mean that everyone involved is involved with an organization and it does not mean that those who are involved with the organization are involved with it against their will.

The problem here in a nutshell seems to be this insane argument that if the people let the Bush Administration get away with stupid stuff, that the people should let the Obama Administration get away with stupid stuff.

Do you really think that is how democracy and America is supposed to work?

Honestly Hunka you have said what is motivating you and that it’s employee health care costs you don’t like being burdened with as an employer.

The simple truth is that people making a living wage in an affluent nation can pay for their own health care.

It’s the economy stupid.

Socialized Health Care is simply a way for employers like yourself to get away with not paying a living wage and not paying to care for your employees indirectly either but simply passing the cost along to the entire populace without once thinking, if there are 50 million Americans now who can’t afford health insurance, how exactly does the government pay for their health insurance? With free money, no with the Tax Payers money, so all you are doing is taking more from that person who struggled to make a living wage and turning it into a non living wage for the sake of companies and people just like your own and you!

Now you please explain to me, why I don’t have a right to protest that, because no one has written me an email telling me what to say, or asked me, or hired me to go anywhere or say anything. I sure haven’t heard it on the TV because I don’t own one!

You on the other hand seem to switch back and forth from CNN to get the party line, and FOX to get angry at those who have another party line, and all that happens is the anger you pick up simply unbalances you to the point that you discredit yourself as you have exposed your agenda to not be altruistic or well informed or humane but entirely self serving, and rather than knowing one positive thing about the Health Bill you desperately want everyone to roll over for and to sell it as something people would really benefit from, all you are in fact doing is critiquing the opposition and attempting to cast dispersions on them in a negative way in order to realize your own self serving agenda.

How do you figure that makes you better or different or more correct than the people you decry?

Love to see you explain that without throwing in a few Talking Head’s Names a few Networks, a few Blog Posts, and the fact that yes, people are really opposed to the Health Plan and the Obama Administration and its tactics.

Can you?

Or do you just want to play the but Georgie got away with some bad stuff so Barrackie should be able to, too game?

reply to post by ProfEmeritus

If you can't win an argument on the issues, attack your opponent to change the subject.

The issue is the government's proposal to control health care and all of us. Don't be distracted.

reply to post by CharlesMartel

If you can't win an argument on the issues, attack your opponent to change the subject.

What are you talking about? Whose fight are you trying to butt into? You haven't even been on this thread.

Originally posted by ProfEmeritus
True. As one of those senior citizens who is truly fed up with what is going on, I can tell you that the anger in our age group is truly immense. I worked all my life, never took a penny from the government, paid all my taxes, and now this corrupt administration wants to take away what little we still have. I'm telling you, I'm not too old to grab a pitchfork if things get much worse!

Before you get your dander up, I have to ask just what exactly is being taken away from you? What is being threatened to be taken away from you? I must be missing something in all the versions of the bill I have had the pleasure or perusing.

Originally posted by evil incarnate

Originally posted by ProfEmeritus
True. As one of those senior citizens who is truly fed up with what is going on, I can tell you that the anger in our age group is truly immense. I worked all my life, never took a penny from the government, paid all my taxes, and now this corrupt administration wants to take away what little we still have. I'm telling you, I'm not too old to grab a pitchfork if things get much worse!

Before you get your dander up, I have to ask just what exactly is being taken away from you? What is being threatened to be taken away from you? I must be missing something in all the versions of the bill I have had the pleasure or perusing.

That's pretty much it...


... baseless fear.

But ya know what? YES WE CAN!

[edit on 8-8-2009 by HunkaHunka]

reply to post by HunkaHunka

But ya know what? YES WE CAN!

You have just recited the ENTIRE program of your messiah- nothing but empty sayings. The fact that 52% of the voting public bought that empty saying unfortunately says a great deal about why we are in trouble today. You and the messiah lovers buy such simpleton sayings, without ever questioning what is really behind them. You and the MSM are complicit in being responsible for the trouble America is in today.

Originally posted by ProfEmeritus
reply to post by HunkaHunka

 

But ya know what? YES WE CAN!

You have just recited the ENTIRE program of your messiah- nothing but empty sayings. The fact that 52% of the voting public bought that empty saying unfortunately says a great deal about why we are in trouble today. You and the messiah lovers buy such simpleton sayings, without ever questioning what is really behind them. You and the MSM are complicit in being responsible for the trouble America is in today.

This is the sad reality Professor, much of Obama core support group, the young, minorities, and rabid pie in the sky left wing liberal/socialist/democrats are utterly incapable of asking high quality questions and require no credible answers that convey real discernable information.

Vague promises of 'some day' hope is all they need. Their minds become like blank checks as they translate the non-answers of vague promise to mean what they want it to mean, based on their own unspoken desires.

Of course if they actually could formulate their unspoken desires into concise thoughts and then high quality verbal questions that ask for specific information and Obama was actually an honest man capable and desirous of answering high quality questions with high quality informative answers they would find out no...that the fantasy of what Obama is going to do for them and this nation is but a fantasy.

All they require to muddle through another pitiful day of a meaningless and marginally productive existence is that shred of hope, where they then convince themselves their messiah knows exactly what they are hoping for and hopes for the same and will give it to them.

The sad reality is that to these inarticulate, under educated, naive and inexperienced people many of whom voted for Obama simply because he is black, many of them whom voted for him simply because he wasn't George W. Bush or John McCain actually do believe the man is promising them something specific based on their individual fantasies and interpetation and believe he will deliver on it and can, and simply refuse to believe otherwise no matter what they are confronted with in the way of reality...because hoping against hope is all they have...and the good would be dictator Obama knew then as he knows now that they are a segment of people who have never had anything but hope against hope to sustain them in life and is playing that like a devil with a fiddle.

Bombarded with a cult of personality around their Hero/Hope, a wide array of sumbliminal messages in the music they listen too, the video games they play, the TV that they watch for all intents and purposes they have become the living brain dead, zombies of a sort if you will.

One of my clients I had not seen in months stopped by to see me the other day and I noticed a huge change in his personality and demeanor and how he reacted to and answered questions.

I asked him point blank...Don you have been watching a lot of your new digital TV haven't you? Just a few hours a day was his reply...I thought so was mine.

He's gone, not even the same person, the sparkle in his eye, the jovial nature all but totally obliterated.

I don't know if there will be a way to bring the victims of Obama's reign of tyranny back to life and the real world but I think it's safe to say those of us not under the influence of the Koolaide truly are on our own.

The good news is they are all automons incapable of independent thought or action.

As long as the ammo holds out it should be ok!

Originally posted by THX-1138
How did these people like Babawa Boxa and Bawney Fwank and Ninny Paloozi get up into these positions of power?

It blows my mind that the masses elect these kooks.

Are you going to eat that last piece of chicken?

Of course no one is racist...

wow...

If you were listening, those people who express "dissent" are ringers. They're not "real" people. They're like actors, paid to read lines with great enthusiasm. Maybe you're the same, who knows? All I can say is that there's an awful lot of AstroTurf resistances sprouting up and not a lot of actual majority when it comes right down to it. It's like they're hoping it's gonna catch on so they don't have to keep paying people to shout out in town hall meetings and the like. I happen to know that the NSA has a few agents on ATS, and elsewhere on the internet. Financial Times is the most shameless front for Federal Reserve propaganda I've seen yet.

I am not saying everybody who "dissents" is an agent. I don't believe that at all personally, but I do believe that there is a pretty healthy counterintelligence program designed to get the American public to shoot themselves in the foot on this one. Nationalized Health Care is a good thing. Ask anyone in Europe. The only people who oppose it are the rich, who make up half of one percent of the people. They have the money to pay people to help them shoot this down, but they need to fool enough real people to succeed. Even they don't have the money to buy out the entire public, otherwise they'd be into charity. Who do you see opposing Health Care? Rich NeoCons and the gullible people who believe them. I'm not saying the bill we've got right now is the best. It's a thousand-odd pages long and I've never looked at it. However, the U.S. government is perfectly capable of running a first class health care system. Just look at the military.

The real reason the NeoCons want to shoot it down is because they don't believe we deserve first-class health care. That's the truth, as one of them admitted it. If you've seen the Daily Show somewhat recently, then you know what I mean. One thing is for sure: keeping things the way they are is not an option. Health Care is crap right now. Change is necessary. Rather than being a bitter pill and a thorn in as many sides as you can, why don't you tell us what you DO want? If it's good, then with enough support, the law-makers will listen to you. What we are seeing now is not a mature response to this issue. If you're not on somebody's payroll to talk trash about Obama or the things he does or doesn't do, then I ask you to consider my words and take what I say at face value.

I have no agenda. I'm not even old enough to vote. I just want people to stop acting stupid. Is that so much to ask?


[edit on 9-8-2009 by Syrus Magistus]

Originally posted by evil incarnate
Before you get your dander up, I have to ask just what exactly is being taken away from you? What is being threatened to be taken away from you? I must be missing something in all the versions of the bill I have had the pleasure or perusing.

The right to decide who will provide my healthcare, not just settle for one option, what the government gives me.

Originally posted by Syrus Magistus
If you were listening, those people who express "dissent" are ringers. They're not "real" people. ........

The real reason the NeoCons want to shoot it down is because they don't believe we deserve first-class health care. That's the truth, as one of them admitted it.

You keep believing that buddy. It is a pretty wide cross section of the American public who has concerns about the pace and direction of Obama's health care plan. If you think it is just "NeoCons" then you are sadly mistaken. The American public would like a Bipartisian agreement on things like Healthcare, Medicare, Social Security ect.... not just one sides vision of it. I'm sure you would feel the same if Republicans rammed every bill through Congress without any Democrat input. I don't see why it should be hard to strike a compromise Bill that addresses concerns from both parties so both can support it.

As it stands now, it seems like the Democrats are intent on running everything by themselves, without taking the other side into consideration at all. That's a dangerous game to play. I thought there was going to be a change in the way Government operates...... some change.

reply to post by evil incarnate

Before you get your dander up, I have to ask just what exactly is being taken away from you? What is being threatened to be taken away from you?

What are they threatening to take away? The right to life, if you are old, and ill, and the government death panel deems that you are not productive enough to warrant expensive health care, in order to extend your life. That is what they are aiming at. Former Sen. Tom Daschle, who has been a significant contributor to the health bill in his roll as an advisor:
www.bloomberg.com...

Daschle says health-care reform “will not be pain free.” Seniors should be more accepting of the conditions that come with age instead of treating them. That means the elderly will bear the brunt.

His beliefs have been placed in the bill in the form of a health care review board which will decide who lives and who dies, based upon a formula that takes age, productivity (how much people pay in taxes, and how much the treatment costs), and other factors that they won't disclose.

For instance, look at how the administration has doled out stimulus money based upon demographics and the percentage of a population that voted for him. I can easily envision a politically & government controlled control board deciding that, for instance, registered elderly Republics , being denied expensive health care, while elderly Democrats receive it. That is just one of the hundreds of problems with GOVERNMENT controlled health care.

Don't say it won't happen, because it will, if enacted. Politicians always act as politicians, basing virtually every decision upon politics and votes, not the COMMON good.

reply to post by ProfEmeritus


An outstanding reply Professor.

One of the things tragically lacking in America today is common sense.

There is no such thing as a free lunch.

A lot of people in support of the Health Care Bill(s) naively think it is something free.

Nothing could be further from the truth because there is no such thing as a free lunch.

Not only will Government Health Care Plan premiums be a tax, much like Social Security and Medicare already are and be deducted directly from W-2 Wage Earners Paychecks if they can't prove they have another plan, you will also have little choice or say in how the Government chooses to take care of your health.

The quality of care will go down.

Far fetched sales pitches like the Big Pharmacy Companies have promised us 80 billion in discounts over 10 years as an incentive are ludicous.

The Big Pharmacutical Companies know there sales will sky rocket under a Government run Health Care Program where perscribing medication will result in almost every ailment from a stubbed toe to a wart on your nose.

They can easily offset the discounts through increased sales volume as the Government seeks to put a whole generation of Americans on Xanax, Prozac, and ADD drugs that make them more compliant and manageable and less thinking and responsive.

Ultimately there goal is to medicate America into a false state of euphoria so it won't protest more and more draconian and totaltarian laws.

To many under educated and poor Americans really percieve this Health Care Bill as something of value for nothing or next to nothing.

The cost out of their paychecks and the cost to their over all quality of health and life and length of life is going to be staggering.

Nancy Regan said it best...Just say no to drugs! Ultimately all most doctors are, is legal drug pushers and narcotics dispensers.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

Nancy Regan said it best...Just say no to drugs! Ultimately all most doctors are, is legal drug pushers and narcotics dispensers.

You brought up a great point there. My wife and I can attest the truth of what you said about doctors being legal drug pushers, and nothing more. No matter what we go to the doctor for, he listens for about 10 seconds, then pulls out his pad to write script. When I ask him the cause, and whether there is something that we can do, to prevent the problem, all he'll say is "This should help". I don't want to just take more and more drugs. I want to know how to prevent problems.
In the long run, I guess they don't really want prevention, since that would cut down drastically on their business.
Most of the time, they don't even know what they are prescribing. It really upsets me to see the well-dressed drug marketing reps walk into our doctor's office, and just walk in with their case of "goodies" (while we wait 2 hours with an appointment!). When we finally get called, I'm sure that what he ends up prescribing was just mentally "sold" to him before we came in. He has no ideas of the interactions, the long term effects, or the efficacy of the drug he's prescribing. You don't need a medical degree for that!
We've changed doctors several times in the last two years, and will change again, in hopes of getting one that really listens to what we have to say, not one that just writes scripts for whatever the drug pushers sold him on.

Disgusting ingrates. Most of these senators and what have you dont even deserve to breath. They are garbage of the smelliest kind.

Will they not be happy until we march on Washington with torches and pitchforks?

We are not against HEALTHCARE REFORM. We are in DIRE need of reformation of healthcare!! We are opposed to Socialism!!!!!!!!!

My grandfather was recently in DC for a Antismoking Cancer Summit, where he witnessed congress in session. There were TWO representatives present for a thirty minute debate, after which the rest showed up, walked in, and without breaking step pushed the button to vote and walked straight back out into their limos. These people arent representing US!! The government is BROKEN

reply to post by mostlyspoons

My grandfather was recently in DC for a Antismoking Cancer Summit, where he witnessed congress in session. There were TWO representatives present for a thirty minute debate, after which the rest showed up, walked in, and without breaking step pushed the button to vote and walked straight back out into their limos. These people arent representing US!! The government is BROKEN

Great post-starred. Every word you posted was filled with wisdom.
True, almost none of those reps represent us- they represent themselves and the lobbyists that bribe them. Our government has been bought out by the wealthy corrupt crooks that make their living off the toil of the average working American. The politicians are nothing more than the slave-masters of these criminals.

The only time you see more than 5 or 6 reps in the House is when they know that the MSM will be covering them on TV.

I wonder how many bottles of scotch and bourbon are consumed in chambers while they are waiting for a vote, and how many other unmentionable things go on in those chambers?