Barbara Boxer Objects To Health Care Protesters' "Attire"

Originally posted by HunkaHunka
That's hilarious especially since these "town halls" are having people shipped into them.

Ok, like Obama's hand picked crowds and questions are so superior. I am quite tempted to go to my local Congressman who "invited" me to attend a community expo. He wants to hear what I have to say, according to his card that he mailed. I have a feeling, he isn't going to like what a lot of people are going to say.

Washington isn't getting the memo that a lot of people are worried about us moving so fast in so many things. We can't just keep spending money we don't have to spend in the first place.

For example, I was just at a networking meeting, the local Chysler dealer just told us that as of today, Wednesday, the cash for clunkers program is back on. .......The only problem is that he only has 15 new cars available on his lot and 14 of them don't qualify for the program!!! He won't get any new vechiles till the end of August and you can't use the "clunker" money for those purchases, just for cars on hand. Add on top of that that the dealers don't know exactly how they are going to get paid by the government for the program..... And we have to ram through healthcare in 3 weeks!?!?!?!



[edit on 6-8-2009 by pavil]

Originally posted by HunkaHunka
Ok, so it's not so much as a lie as something you feel could never happen. That's a huge difference there.

Huh? Do you understand english?
Obama has said himself that the healthcare plan would be like his plan and Congresses plan. We all know that the proposes legislation is NOT like their plan, YES, it's a lie.

You can't claim your own incredulity on a matter to be a lie someone told.

You mean like those claiming Bush lied who don't know the difference between telling an intentional lie and the intelligence being wrong.

You are completely misunderstanding what a single payer system is.

Umm....no, I'm not.

Medicare is a single payer system. So is Medicaid.

No they are not since you have the option to get private insurance. Plus, you want the national healthcare to be bankrupt and riddled with fraud and corrruption like medicare and medicare? Because that is what will happen.

However, that will not remove private healthcare.

Yes it will. That is the goal. Didn't you read the current bill?
Once your private insurance company make a change to the plan like adjusting cost or adjusting coverage, you will be required, forced and mandated to switch to the public option. Eventually the private insurance companies will go out of business because of this.

Also, how is fair and what do you think will happen when the competition for private insurance companies is the government who makes the rules? The government is like player and referee.

So once again I ask... where are these lies you are talking about?

Well, I just gave you three examples, and there are a lot more, but if you choose to ignore them or believe Obama is telling the truth then go ahead but don't come crying on ATS when this change happens and you are screaming that it's more expensive, coverage sucks and they just killed your parents and grandparents because they are to old to recieve the proper medication and treatment.

[edit on 8/6/2009 by WhatTheory]

reply to post by WhatTheory


We currently have single payer systems and we still have private health.

I don't understand how you can assert that an SPS will remove private health care.

Medicare exists as a SPS... so does Medicaid. They haven't replaced private health care.

Although the Hannity's of the world won't tell you this. It's true.

SPS does not mean the end of private health care, it never has, it never will.

Originally posted by HunkaHunka
I don't understand how you can assert that an SPS will remove private health care.

Medicare exists as a SPS... so does Medicaid. They haven't replaced private health care.

Although the Hannity's of the world won't tell you this. It's true.

SPS does not mean the end of private health care, it never has, it never will.

Are you purposefully NOT listening. I just told you what is in the bill and you can look it up for yourself. It does NOT matter how it is now because the law will change once the bill gets passed.

It clearly states in the current bill that once your private insurance company makes a change to the plan like adjusting cost or adjusting coverage, you will be required, forced and mandated to switch to the public option. Eventually the private insurance companies will go out of business because of this.

Once this happens the government will control both the system and rules which will further make sure of the elimination of private insurance is complete.

Do you understand the above two paragraphs? The above two points are in the bill and that will eliminate private coverage. How can you deny that? Again, the reason this has not happened now is because the bill has not passed with the law that will eliminate private coverage.

Do you get it now?

This is just a sampling of the lies. Another lie regarding healthcare include that we need this national healthcare because it will reduce the deficit. What a joke. Nobody in their right mind believes that garbage. The CBO already said that it will increase the deficit dramatically. Just look how good medicare and medicaid are being run.

[edit on 8/6/2009 by WhatTheory]

Originally posted by WhatTheory

Originally posted by HunkaHunka
I don't understand how you can assert that an SPS will remove private health care.

Medicare exists as a SPS... so does Medicaid. They haven't replaced private health care.

Although the Hannity's of the world won't tell you this. It's true.

SPS does not mean the end of private health care, it never has, it never will.

Are you purposefully NOT listening. I just told you what is in the bill and you can look it up for yourself. It does NOT matter how it is now because the law will change once the bill gets passed.

More predictions....

It clearly states in the current bill that once your private insurance company makes a change to the plan like adjusting cost or adjusting coverage, you will be required, forced and mandated to switch to the public option. Eventually the private insurance companies will go out of business because of this.

Now *this* is interesting. Could you show me the text in the bill which states this?

Once this happens the government will control both the system and rules which will further make sure of the elimination of private insurance is complete.

Do you understand the above two paragraphs?

I understand that you have not shown any proof of this. That's about it.

The above two points are in the bill and that will eliminate private coverage. How can you deny that?

I'm not denying anything other than the fact that a SPS does not replace private health. There *may* be other issues with the current bill and I would *love* to see these as they appear in the actual bill...

Again, the reason this has not happened now is because the bill has not passed with the law that will eliminate private coverage.

What is that bill number which would eliminate private coverage?

Do you get it now?

All I get is still that you don't like the healthcare idea. You haven't provided any evidence other than hearsay about the concerns you have.

If you could present some if this evidence, that would be great.

reply to post by HunkaHunka

The very fact that you equate loss of American soldiers lives with pure politics as usual sickens me.

You know, Hunka you are beginning to really lose it. NOWHERE did I EVER equate the loss of American soldiers with pure politics as usual. Is is only you that has TRIED to do that. Your sick, twisted logic is beyond belief. your partisanship, and unswerving LOVE of your messiah obama is all you can see. You ignore the Dems that played games for 8 years with American lives, in their attempt to impeach a President that truly CARED for American troops, yet you support a socialist, who is trying to destroy America and the Freedom that we enjoyed for over 225 years. You and your like provide aid and support to those who love America, by supporting this sick administration that wants to eliminate freedom of speech, this administration that has now demonized freedom of speech, and created an email site that encourages Americans to become Nazi collaborators, and turn in their neighbors and family members to an administration that wishes to gather enough evidence to put people on an enemies list. What next? The knocking on doors in the middle of the night?
Your words and deeds are truly sickening, if not completely treasonous.

Reply to post by Kords21

I wouldnt worry too much about Janine. She lost her comic edge a looooooong time ago and is doing whatever she can to stay in the limelight. Shes got one foot in the door of some sort of rehab clinic and the other foot in a grave, she just needs to decide if she wants to go to rehab and get clean and sober and start to think rationally or OD and be another celeb who couldnt handle not being the flavor of the month anymore. Either way she is toast and I dont think her name will have signifigance anymore, unless she ODs and MSM discusses her 6 minutes of fame for 3 months and hides the US military invading another poor country who HAPPENS to have oil.


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

reply to post by HunkaHunka

Care to show where he lied?

This video shows in Obama's OWN WORDS how he lied. Go to minute 1:00 and HEAR him say he is a supporter of a single payer healthcare system:



You're busted. Give it up.

reply to post by ProfEmeritus



And this is any different than when Bushie was in office?

I'm surprised at how surprised people are that things are still actually quite the same.

Originally posted by HunkaHunka
Now *this* is interesting. Could you show me the text in the bill which states this?

What is that bill number which would eliminate private coverage?

Huh?
I know you read the current healthcare bill right? If not, then you have no room to talk.

Everything I have told you is from the current healthcare bill HR3200.
Here, read it for yourself:
Healthcare Bill

Here is an entire thread dedicated to the massive pile of garbage:
In fact, I'm sure you participated in this thread. Did you participate without reading the bill?
www.abovetopsecret.com...

I'm not going to hold your hand so read the stupid bill for yourself.

reply to post by ProfEmeritus


Again... it's not a lie.

He is in support of a single payer health care system. Just like medicaid is an SPS and medicare is an SPS.

Having an SPS does not mean the end of privatized healthcare... unless of course they can't compete.

reply to post by HunkaHunka

Since you are not going to respond to my last post proving you are wrong and Obama lies by giving you the actual bill and discussion thread, here is another one straight from Ovomit's mouth.

At the end of the short video Ovomit says that the current healthcare plan will be as good as his plan. LIE, LIE

reply to post by WhatTheory


I'm in the process of reading over the bill. I have yet to find anything about what you mentioned.. but I'm not done reading either...


i will say though, that for someone who posts a video and says LIES LIES... it really makes it hard to believe you about anything...


I've yet to see one well put together post form you describing these supposed lies. Instead you throw a bill at me and say "GO READ IT". Yet the burden of proof is still on you, you alleges these lies exist.



[edit on 6-8-2009 by HunkaHunka]

Originally posted by HunkaHunka
i will say though, that for someone who posts a video and says LIES LIES... it really makes it hard to believe you about anything...

How convienent.
Did you watch the video? How much more clarity do you need?
Those were the Presidents own words!
Is the current healthcare bill the same as the Presidents? If you answer no then Obama lied. It's that simple. Why can you not come to grips with it?

So is the current healthcare bill the same as the Presidents like Obama himself said in the video? I will wait for your answer.

I've yet to see one well put together post form you describing these supposed lies. Instead you throw a bill at me and say "GO READ IT". Yet the burden of proof is still on you, you alleges these lies exist.

That is just a cop-out answer. I have given you written and audio proof of everything. There is nothing I can do except come to your house and highlight and underline the text for you and slowly describe what the words mean.

You either have reading comprehension issues or are purposefully being disingenuous. Which is it?

reply to post by WhatTheory

No you have shown video of him saying something.. and then saying "HE LIED!"

You haven't made a statement and then backed it up coherently.


How about illustrating your point with text?

For example

Lie being told: blah blah blah

Reason why it's a lie: blah blah blah

Maybe because you just don't like him and you don't really have any such logic to convey?

reply to post by ProfEmeritus

You and your like provide aid and support to those who love America, by supporting this sick administration that wants to eliminate freedom of speech, this administration that has now demonized freedom of speech, and created an email site that encourages Americans to become Nazi collaborators, and turn in their neighbors and family members to an administration that wishes to gather enough evidence to put people on an enemies list. What next? The knocking on doors in the middle of the night?

We sure do live in dangerous and uncertain times Professor. I questioned Richard Nixon's policies and Ford and Carter's too. I disliked Regan so much his first term the one time I voted in my life was for Mondale when Regan ran for his second term. I have questioned Bush 1, and Bill Clinton's policies and Bush 2 as well and in all that time no one ever accused me of being a ...RACIST, because I questioned the Administration.

No one ever accused me either of being a Terrorist either for questioning them.

No one ever said hey you are only questioning them because this corporation or that political party or that news network put you up to it.

I might not have gotten good answers to my criticisms and concerns but at least I got answers based on my criticisms and concerns not deflections based on race or party line or who else did what, where, when and how.

People don't seem to understand that in their rush to do good, it's not necessarily good they are doing when it is rushed, when it does ignore real issues and questions and becomes all about power, control, being right and being percieved to have power, control and being right.

The minute a sitting President of the United States can make a public appeal to citizens to inform the Office of the President if and when someone disents and who and why is the day that the Rubicon has been crossed and no matter how lofty the individual goal, NO goal is worth the wholesale sacrificing of our values and Constitution.

It used to be in America that the American thing was to dissent and question, it showed that as an American you were thinking, had your ears and eyes open and were engaged in the process and felt the process was important enough to be engaged honestly in.

Now this Administration, and that is who is in office right NOW is this Administration wants to make that un-American?

The real issue here is not health care, the real issue is the Rubicon and why some people are not concerned it has been crossed.

In my humble oppinion America ceases to exist and to be able to offer or keep any promise no matter how big or small when the promise to govern ourselves by Constitutional Standards has been shattered and shattered right in front of our eyes and witnessed by people who imagine they too are Americans who simply don't care...don't care because they have their eyes on a prize that will never be worth winning, if we have forever lost our way in gaining it.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

The real issue here is not health care, the real issue is the Rubicon and why some people are not concerned it has been crossed. In my humble oppinion America ceases to exist and to be able to offer or keep any promise no matter how big or small when the promise to govern ourselves by Constitutional Standards has been shattered and shattered right in front of our eyes and witnessed by people who imagine they too are Americans who simply don't care...don't care because they have their eyes on a prize that will never be worth winning, if we have forever lost our way in gaining it.

Very well put. You said it better than I ever could have. I for one will not be silenced until I am six feet under, regardless of what the politicians call me, or threaten me with.
Semper Fi!

Traveler,
Great post and right on target. We got some of this when Klinton was in office from Shrillary and her buddies but not anywhere near as vitriolic as this administration! Like I've said before i believe the election in 2010 midterms is going to be one crazy time in this country. Their tactics are going to be even harsher than they are now if the polls show that all the misconceptions of how large their base really is just smoke and mirrors! Saying something that's not true enough and it will become true only works when you can convince the majority. I don't think they have anywhere near that.
Zindo

Originally posted by ZindoDoone
Traveler,
Great post and right on target. We got some of this when Klinton was in office from Shrillary and her buddies but not anywhere near as vitriolic as this administration! Like I've said before i believe the election in 2010 midterms is going to be one crazy time in this country. Their tactics are going to be even harsher than they are now if the polls show that all the misconceptions of how large their base really is just smoke and mirrors! Saying something that's not true enough and it will become true only works when you can convince the majority. I don't think they have anywhere near that.
Zindo

Zindo my friend, the tactics that these people are using are shameless and shamefull.

This is America and the blatant attempts at extortion and bullying are causing a very ugly situation.

People must be allowed to speak. I have a health plan already, it's called try not to get sick. If I get sick I go to my doctor. I pay her with something called cash. She actually charges me less than people who pay by insurance because she incurs no cost in collecting payment. She respects that I pay cash by always basing her recomendations on the fact that I am actually going to pay for them and whether they really have a value to me that makes the cost of a treatment versus what it actually does to benefit me worthwhile for me to consider. She tells me straight up what would be a waste of time and money and what wouldn't. She also gives me priority in seeing me in her very busy practice. If there are 8 other people waiting on various insurance plans she always does what she can to get to me as quickly as possible. She never rushes our consultation though, in fact she slows down, changes gears and talks to me like a human being, a friend, and someone she respects and enjoys talking to. She doesn't do that with her other insurerer paid patients.

I like my health plan. I pay when I get sick, for what I need when I get sick, and only those things I need to get better.

My health plan includes preventative medicine, it's called eating a balanced diet, getting plenty of exercise and fresh air, plenty of rest and minimizing as much stress in my life as I can.

I don't need the Government to provide me a health plan. I don't see how they could provide a better health plan or better care than my own health plan and the care I am already obtaining.

I know too that I have access to the best doctors in the world, who only want one thing to give me the very best care in the world, me to pay them, their agreed upon and set rate!

Not everyone can afford the best doctors or has access to them, but America is a land where being the best at something is supposed to pay. It's a land where you can have the best of something if you are willing and capable of paying.

If the government actually just made it easier for people to make a living by getting out of the way, not taxing us to death, and not molly coddling a whole plethora of looser special interests groups and all their incessant whinning and demands for charity and special treatment, and actually just did it's job of keeping capitalism and democracy working and functioning in it's simple, basic form...people could afford health care.

The only reason people can't afford health care is because of the special interests like the insurers corrupting congress not to mention the rampant fraud in medicare and medicaide.

It's evident in how my own Doctors charge me. Don't put them through the insurance rigamoroll and pay them real cash and they charge you less and provide you more.

It's congress through Medicaide, Medicare and cowtowing to special interest insurance and pharmacutical lobbies that let health care become so costly and so inefficient to most people.

They are the ones who screwed the pooch and now they are yelling at us to let them fix it, in a hurry, and their way, no questions ask?

Laugh out loud and sell me the Brooklyn Bridge too!

People need to think.

If you can't afford your own health care, you don't need a better insurer, you need a better job...and that's what the government should be working on, providing better jobs and income opportunities.

Now I wrote a lot right here, but I defy anyone to tell me that some political party, insurance company, bank or politician caused me to form this view.

This is America and too darn bad if someone doesn't like it or agree with it.

What I just said isn't criminal, trying to stop me from saying it is though, and this government of ours really ought not to forget that.

This is America not Kenya.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

Zin and PT,
I just saw a news blip on Drudge, that says that a Dem Congressman says what is happening now is close to Nazi Brown Shirt tactics. The problem is that he is talking about citizens at town hall meetings!
He is partially right- the tactiics are those of Nazi Brown Shirts. However, it is the Administration that are the brown shirts, not citizens expressing freedom of speech.