Save the Planet: Have Fewer Kids

Originally posted by St Vaast
reply to post by mellisamouse

 

Just your first two paragraphs alone are brilliant. Wish people would read what you've written and think it through

Starred

Thank you...yes, I have seen too much destruction from these "kids having kids" first hand.....

It is not their fault they were neglected as kids, but it is ALLWAYS someones fault for continuing the cycle...

I have allways had my own house, and now as a homeowner, have rented my basement suite here and there...well, none of these people, even though getting money from the goverment, want to pay their rent, or pay their bills, and even want to mooch food non stop, they don't clean up after themselves.....this is not some isolated insident, but the majority of a generation.....I am seeking high and low and have done MASSIVE renovations to try and get some long term older renters.....

The dramma these people cause, their mooching, scamming, and lack of appreciation, has seriously clouded my world view..I was one of those happy rainbows and butterflies people, allways out to save the world, but these people need to save themseles for once.....''Get off their lazy @$$es, and do their OWN dishes, take care of their OWN kids, pay their frigging OWN bills, and rent, and STOP complaining it is too expensie, and then go get knocked up every 9 months. The4y even get welfare to pay for DAYCARE, so they don't have to be "annoyed" by their own kids while they sit and watch TV!!!!!!!!!! NOT daycare to go to WORK, but daycare for "me time" it is PATHETIC!!!!!!!!

they also seem to think that anyone who owns their own house now somehow owes them something..... I just want to sell my house and hide in the mountains somewhere, because I don't want my one son, that I waited 32 year to have, and is the only one I want, to be corrupted by these people.....

It is sadder than IDOCRACY, it is LAZYOCRACY, SELFISHOCRACY, NO APPRECIATIONOCRACY.......I can't stand it!

Yes, I think that having less kids is a MUCH better way than killing off those already here, but those already here causing more and more problems need some structure somehow too.......not sure how, but these selfish people need a wake up call....I know I am not renting to them anymore, and most people aren't either....they are all ending up in rundown appartment buildings now, having to deal with, and then breed with each other.....

Sorry on a full rant again, just waiting for the last two I kicked out to find a new place and move...lol....

All I really see the OP as is just a way to educate would be parents as to the environmental costs of having children. Maybe i'm naive but to me thats it.
Too often people have kids without thinking, and really society doesn't do enough to prepare you. For the most part all we hear is 'oh having kids is the best ever' or 'if you dont have kids you're selfis'. No one really ever or hardly ever tells you the down sides like loss of freedom, they cost a ton, etc.
I really think that when people are deciding when or if to have kids that they arnt' getting the whole story and are even being pressured into having kids. I think the green movement is a great way to give an 'out' to those who are on the fence or dont want to have any.
Its also great for those like me that cant have kids as it is nice that my personal heartbreak has nice consequences for the earth. Granted its ironic considering that I wont have any grandchildren to reap the benefits but oh well.
Also itd be really nice if people would stop acting like we all have just got to have kids and just admit thats ok if some of us dont or choose not to. Again if thats all the green movement does that tbh its ok with me.

Originally posted by ShiftTrio
But what about they fact they are correct. The population is out of control and unfeasible to maintain. The Chinese have done it, only allowing you to have a certain amount of children. (Not that I agree with them) I hate to say it but we are a bunch of locusts , just because you can have 5 kids don't mean you should. This is no conspiracy, its just the freakin truth I am afraid.

at least IMHO

What about the fact the human population is stabilizing? It won't ever get much higher than 10 billion, and when say 80% of the world is urbanized (which would probably be so by the time that happens), the birth rate will go down to 2 kids per woman, so it will stabilize.

No genocide needed!

Originally posted by mellisamouse
reply to post by St Vaast

 

Me too, seriously.....the most UNDERQUALIFIED to be parents, are having 4-5 kids each to get money from the governement and being HORRIBLE parents.....

I think it should be a SERIOUS lifelong decision to think about raising a child....it should be like a duty to humanity to do it properly...not have a kid to collect checks and sit around watching horrible television shows eating bon bons in front of your kids all day, creating drama queens and violent frustrated, depressed people who have NO role models etc...

I am sick of seeing these out of controll kids, raising MORE out of control kids, just for the sake of free money, not out of the love of children, and out of a deep sense of responsibility to raising that person in the best way possible......

I think people should be more self responsible and break the frigging cycle! If you know you were raised in a dysfuntional home, if you know you aren't happy, then stop being so frigging selfish and popping out kids you know you are going to neglect.....we ALL had horrible childhoods, but when you KNOW you are not going to dedicate 24/7 to your children, then DON'T have them...that is the biggest hypocracy in the world....having kids to try to fill the void left from YOUR childhood, or having kids for free money....makes me SICK!!!!!!

(sorry mellisamouse rarley gets angry, but these jerks with 4-5 kids each admittingly doing it to get more money, and then raising hellians are really giving us a handful of crap to deal with in the future.....)

YES, horrible parents are handing us a bunch of CRAP TO DEAL WITH IN THE FUTURE!!!!!!!! Get it?

I don't want my child around most kids (or adults) these days, because they are raised in TV, lala, Violence land...it is a disgrace!

[edit on 4-8-2009 by mellisamouse]

Yeah it's no wonder everyone is so depressed these days. Look at the "values" instilled in people in the world.

Originally posted by mellisamouse
reply to post by St Vaast

 

Me too, seriously.....the most UNDERQUALIFIED to be parents, are having 4-5 kids each to get money from the governement and being HORRIBLE parents.....

I think it should be a SERIOUS lifelong decision to think about raising a child....it should be like a duty to humanity to do it properly...not have a kid to collect checks and sit around watching horrible television shows eating bon bons in front of your kids all day, creating drama queens and violent frustrated, depressed people who have NO role models etc...

I am sick of seeing these out of controll kids, raising MORE out of control kids, just for the sake of free money, not out of the love of children, and out of a deep sense of responsibility to raising that person in the best way possible......

I think people should be more self responsible and break the frigging cycle! If you know you were raised in a dysfuntional home, if you know you aren't happy, then stop being so frigging selfish and popping out kids you know you are going to neglect.....we ALL had horrible childhoods, but when you KNOW you are not going to dedicate 24/7 to your children, then DON'T have them...that is the biggest hypocracy in the world....having kids to try to fill the void left from YOUR childhood, or having kids for free money....makes me SICK!!!!!!

(sorry mellisamouse rarley gets angry, but these jerks with 4-5 kids each admittingly doing it to get more money, and then raising hellians are really giving us a handful of crap to deal with in the future.....)

YES, horrible parents are handing us a bunch of CRAP TO DEAL WITH IN THE FUTURE!!!!!!!! Get it?

I don't want my child around most kids (or adults) these days, because they are raised in TV, lala, Violence land...it is a disgrace!

[edit on 4-8-2009 by mellisamouse]

Good post. This one I agree with, although me and my wife were just teenagers when we had our daughter we have never spoiled her and shes never outta control. I know exactly what you mean though I see all the time these people living on wellfare and gov aide programs and they keep having kid after kid after kid. And another thing about it is most these people are crappy parents and/or drug addicts and stuff and the kids just end up growing up with no manors or social skills and they end up repeating the same things their parents did! Its a endless cycle and a lot of times I feel sorry these kids even though they are outta control but its not their fault, its all comes from the crappy parenting. I had #ty parents and left home at 15 so I know how it is and I thank god I'm normal (for the most part, lol) and can function in society.

Anyways I agree with you.

[edit on 4-8-2009 by jeasahtheseer]

I remember in the 70s Population One or Zero I forget but it was the same nonsense. I believe you should have as many children as you can physically, financially, and emotionally take care of, notice I said that "you" can take care of. All these folks having litters of children at one time, it's insanity to me but I respect a person right to do so, godspeed.

To the person who said China's one child policy works, no it don't. Since male children are desired for first borns many rural areas have a severe shortage of women from people killing or selling to foreigners their daughters. Secondly China have many ethnic groups in the vastness that is China and these groups don't usually adhere to the one child policy so it's not uncommon for some families to have more than one child.

I find what another poster said to be true as well. People are so anxious to believe everything they see on tv and or is told by the government as being the unbiased truth, even when history has shown there's always a hidden agenda.

Remember high school chemistry? Carbon dioxide is good for the plants who in turn make the oxygen so why the obsession over carbon foot print. Illogical, absolutely illogical.

the "carbon footprint" term seems like such fascist rhetoric to me.

am i alone here?

How is asking us to consider the environmental impact of unrestrained procreation an evil thing?

They're suggesting that it might be a good idea to voluntarily refrain from adding another three or four people apiece to our world's already exponentially exploding population. They aren't coming into your home to sterilize you.

Originally posted by The Parallelogram
How is asking us to consider the environmental impact of unrestrained procreation an evil thing?

They're suggesting that it might be a good idea to voluntarily refrain from adding another three or four people apiece to our world's already exponentially exploding population. They aren't coming into your home to sterilize you.

They aren't yet, no. They're hoping you'll do it willingly. And if you don't?

IDK, wouldn't wasting and consuming less junk be a more important solution? If people want to stick to their current lifestyle and current credit card economy, then having no kids might be the only solution, sure.

[edit on 4-8-2009 by Donnie Darko]

[edit on 4-8-2009 by Donnie Darko]

reply to post by Sliadon


It would make alot of sense that they would propse something like that. If you look at the Bohemian Grove and Illuminity things, there's big talk about them only wanting 500 million people on the planet.

Now, IMO, this is great idea. People do need to start having more kids. Overpopulation is a fact of life. There are TOO many people.

6.9 Billion is far too much, and the only humane way to lower that ammount is for people to have less kids. Not have no kids, but only have you know 1 or 2 kids.

Either than or mother nature will take care of it for us, she's already showing signs of that.

~Keeper

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
reply to post by Sliadon

 

It would make alot of sense that they would propse something like that. If you look at the Bohemian Grove and Illuminity things, there's big talk about them only wanting 500 million people on the planet.

Now, IMO, this is great idea. People do need to start having more kids. Overpopulation is a fact of life. There are TOO many people.

6.9 Billion is far too much, and the only humane way to lower that ammount is for people to have less kids. Not have no kids, but only have you know 1 or 2 kids.

Either than or mother nature will take care of it for us, she's already showing signs of that.

~Keeper

Yeah, it's probably too many, however, when they start forcing it on us is where I draw the line.

I won't have any more than two kids.

reply to post by Donnie Darko


I have four, but 3 are adopted, so I've only made as much as needed.

There are plenty of kids that need the support of parents, adoption should be more frequent.

~Keeper

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
reply to post by Donnie Darko

 

I have four, but 3 are adopted, so I've only made as much as needed.

There are plenty of kids that need the support of parents, adoption should be more frequent.

~Keeper

Very true. I think 4 billion people might be "ideal", but we should not rush to it. It will take at least a century to get back down to those levels.

reply to post by Donnie Darko

originally posted by Donnie Darko
the "carbon footprint" term seems like such fascist rhetoric to me.

I would say more Cold War Imperialistic, but same mindset... I guess that the title would be an issue of semantics

It's no different than labeling a Developing Society as "Third World" or someone who isn't a member of your cultural group and is seen lesser as a "Heathen."

Like I said earlier, the big issue here is that the educated and better off are the ones targeted with this "Carbon Footprint" campaign. Demographically, they are more likely to buy into the idea of buying the products that claim to have less side-effects on the environment (for examples of effectiveness look at my extra links in my OP), so they shouldn't be the ones being told to watch their population expansion rate.

The scenario seems to be to dupe the Educated into feeling like they are doing a good deed and the "masses" that are left are the primarily uneducated. Sadly, it so happens to be that the uneducated buy into the Charisma of Politicians a little more easily than the educated (not always, many educated people were duped in a recent election... which one was that again? ), but regardless are also easier to control.

That is one of the things that frightens me with this news article I stumbled on. It seems that many readers have picked and chosen tidbits of others postings and have turned this more into a thread discussing the ethical issues of telling people to limit their number of offspring via the Pathos argument or by forced mandate like the Chinese model.

While that is good and all and is an integral part to figuring out the course, it doesn't answer the fundamental questions of

1) Why would this particular target audience be chosen?

and

2) Why feel the need to defend yourself in the conclusion of your research stating that you aren't doing this as a means to suggest governments step in?

Donnie, by any chance do you have any insight you can offer me here?

-Sliadon

reply to post by tothetenthpower


Thank you so much for mentioning the Bohemian Grove. By any chance do you have some links you could drop in this thread for the other readers to peruse? Rather it be your own personal research or something that you have stumbled across that is presented in a easy to follow format?

-Sliadon

Sliadon:

I'm not sure intelligence is that genetic, I think it's more individualistic though genes of course have some bearing on the chance someone will be smart.

I do know that the global warming and population reduction people tend to be especially anti-American and even anti-Caucasian. i think they are playing off liberal guilt and want to convince them that Western, white people are evil polluters that deserve nothing less than extinction.

I think the goal is to get people to ACCEPT population control so they can do it without too much opposition. That's just my opinion. The third world, and poorer/less educated first world are more likely to become slaves or merely just wiped out through famine and murder.

reply to post by Sliadon


Yeah no problem, here's the Wiki article on the complex.

Bohemian Grove

And here's a link to great Youtube Vid on the same subject.

DARK SECRETS: INSIDE BOHEMIAN GROVE

That should keep you busy for a while .

~Keeper

reply to post by Donnie Darko

I'm not sure intelligence is that genetic, I think it's more individualistic though genes of course have some bearing on the chance someone will be smart.

If my stance came across that way let me immediately apologize because that is not what I meant at all. In no way do I believe, nor suggest that intelligence is a genetic issue. What I meant was that people who happen to be uneducated tend to be more willing to follow leaders without question. There are numerous examples which contradict my statement in both the respect of highly educated who do the same as well as uneducated people that question TPTB and try to bring change. That being said, my concern was simply meant that it seems fishy to target the Educated class who already buys into the Green Revolution more.

Does that help? I hope I didn't miss your point get us both lost

-Sliadon

Originally posted by FunSized
All I really see the OP as is just a way to educate would be parents as to the environmental costs of having children. Maybe i'm naive but to me thats it.

I don't see it as the government oops I mean The Green Movement trying to educate people when they take nonsense and spin it as truth.

Too often people have kids without thinking, and really society doesn't do enough to prepare you.

Yes I couldn't agree more about people being nonchalant in bearing children. When it's all said and done it's' about what happens in the home. When people don't raise their children to function in society it's not society's fault. Some folks treat their kids like turtles, they birth them and then treat them as if they have inborn survival instinct much like the turtle's young. That's the full extent of parenting with nonchalant parents.

For the most part all we hear is 'oh having kids is the best ever' or 'if you dont have kids you're selfis'. No one really ever or hardly ever tells you the down sides like loss of freedom, they cost a ton, etc.

Yes as a woman over forty and childless by choice I can tell you I've heard my share of those comments. However, I believe there is a biological urge to reproduce. As humans we don't have to give in to them like dogs and cats we have the ability to reason. We have the capacity to weigh pros and cons and to be honest with ourselves about our desire for parenthood. Some are meant to be moms and dads and some aren't. I'm not talking about just the creating aspect but the actual rearing of children.

I really think that when people are deciding when or if to have kids that they arnt' getting the whole story and are even being pressured into having kids. I think the green movement is a great way to give an 'out' to those who are on the fence or dont want to have any.

Yes some people are caught up in the romanticized version of parenting until the wee ones arrive then they are horrible parents. When you invite somebody in to do the thinking for you (the Green Movement i.e propaganda), you are being sheeple and lead to the eventual slaughter. People must learn to trust and be responsible for their own judgment calls.

Its also great for those like me that cant have kids as it is nice that my personal heartbreak has nice consequences for the earth. Granted its ironic considering that I wont have any grandchildren to reap the benefits but oh well.

Also itd be really nice if people would stop acting like we all have just got to have kids and just admit thats ok if some of us dont or choose not to. Again if thats all the green movement does that tbh its ok with me.

Please forgive me but don't look for your acceptance outside of yourself you will never find true acceptance that way. When you're ok with yourself who cares if Mac the neighbor accepts or approves of you being childless.
I respect your right to feel as you do but something tells me The Green Movement is not at all what it's passing itself off to be.

reply to post by Sliadon


I totally agree, it is economical, eco-friendly, and just smart. A large population puts undo stress on the environment, economy, and over all species life span. I have heard the ideal world population would be around 500 million. While I think that is just a ridiculously low number I do think efforts should be made to maintain a world population under 10 billion. Pretty soon we have no choice but to colonize space, we just won't have the room or resources here.