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Originally posted by serbsta
I would however beg to differ with your argument regarding theist approaches and political associations
Originally posted by Maxmars
People at some point must derive some kind of fulfillment from extending their 'conflict' between one or another set of perspectives; because otherwise, what could possibly blinding them to the futility of the contrived and sensationalized 'confrontation' between science and religion.
But then, I suppose some will contend that the friction is manufactured and fostered for nefarious reasons - or social-engineering purposes.
It's like, if you have no enemy, it someone's job to create one for you (and the media is only too happy to assist!)
Originally posted by Negotium of Verum
Is there a middle ground in this matter? Where do you stand Skyfloating?
Originally posted by Skyfloating
The perpetrators are never the moderate (=friendly) but the "explicit atheists", militant atheists and the religiously fanatic, the fundamentalist bigot. Both present a very real danger to common sense, ethical values, spirituality and humanities progress. Both begin as infantile and divisive rants at lectures and now on internet-forums and build momentum to cause hatred, destruction and stupidity on societal levels.
* Militant atheists focus on the very worst in Religion in order to "prove" their point. However, belief in a Supreme Creative Force does not automatically entail being a jihadist, suicide bomber, bigot or even having a religious dogma. The atmosphere has become so charged that when one questions the atheist agenda one is dismissed as a "religious nutcase". This is blatantly false. Putting the spiritually minded person in the same category as a suicide bomber (for example) is a distortion of reality, perpetrated by those who would like to consider themselves "critical thinkers".
* A-theism has nothing to do with "free thought" as it is re-active rather than pro-active. The scope is narrowed to being anti-something rather than visionary. So without theism there would be no a-theism. A-theism is nothing more than a by-product of theism.
* Psychologically, the fruits of atheism are moral relativism, apathy, non-accountability. Every religion has elements of accountability. In Hinduism its called Karma. In Christianity one is accountable to God. Without accountability it does not matter whether you go on a killing spree or not. The most atheistic country in the world is North Korea. The results of their atheist "Juche Ideology" are poverty, mass-starvation and blandness.
Of course atheism now uses the ideal of "ethics" as a cop-out, but without accountability there are no natural consequences of careless behavior.
* Militant atheists try to piggyback on science and the great things it has given to society. But it is not atheists such as Karl Marx who have made our world a better place, its science. Most of the great names of science...Galileo, Copernicus, Newton, Einstein, DaVinci, Max Planck, Edison, C.G. Jung, Freud were deeply religious and spiritual people. Since 10-20 years academia has been somewhat infiltrated by atheism, which is why the amount of great scientists universities bring forth has plummeted. Greatness and Creativity nowadays mostly comes from business-people, most of which are religious or spiritual themselves (e.g. Bill Gates). Greatness cannot come from a mind poised to defeat someone rather than be creative.
* Atheists have tried to polarize "Evolution vs. Creationism", which is a false dichotomy. Even the dim-witted recognize that they are not mutually exclusive but can easily be one and the same. Evolution can easily be a tool of Creation for example. The endless discussion on "this or that?" is partially promoted by the atheists.
* The mind of the atheist is infantile in that it makes conclusive statements about the nature of reality from the perspective of being a tiny body-mind in an outrageously vast universe. The sheer idiocy and arrogance of this is awesome. Neither is the attitude of "what we perceive is real, what we do not perceive is unreal" supported by science.
* The mind of the activist-atheist is infantile in that it thinks that when it likes the color red it has to decry the color blue. Rather than simply saying "I dont believe in God" and allowing others to believe whatever they want, he has to go out and shove his agenda down others throats.
The menace to soiety begins when this agenda is fed to schoolchildren, universities and mass-media in the guise of "critical thinking" and endorsed by wildly popular "scientists" such as Richard Dawkins (author of the book "The God Delusion").
Left to its own, without being exposed, humanity will embrace atheism as the friendly savior from religious-fanaticism, thereby spilling the baby with the bathwater. And if "religious" fanatics are the only ones opposing them, their case will be strengthened. Militant and expansionist atheism needs to be countered with reason and logic, not bible verses.
Anyone in awe of the gift of life and the beauty of the Universe, anyone who knows there is more to life than the senses see, rejects atheism.
* Psychologically, the fruits of atheism are moral relativism, apathy, non-accountability. Every religion has elements of accountability. In Hinduism its called Karma. In Christianity one is accountable to God. Without accountability it does not matter whether you go on a killing spree or not. The most atheistic country in the world is North Korea. The results of their atheist "Juche Ideology" are poverty, mass-starvation and blandness.
Atheists have tried to polarize "Evolution vs. Creationism", which is a false dichotomy. Even the dim-witted recognize that they are not mutually exclusive but can easily be one and the same. Evolution can easily be a tool of Creation for example. The endless discussion on "this or that?" is partially promoted by the atheists. -Skyfloating
Originally posted by mr-lizard
a father who refused medical aid for his dying daughter, choosing instead to pray. She died. This was lacking in common sense, spirituality and humanitarian progress.
I have truly thought long and hard about the universe and have ultimately realised that a God does not exist.
paedophile priests, radical muslims...
Also bear in mind that many atheists may have been brought up in a heavily religious household, so they have had first hand experience of the wrongs and rights of religion.
You are also assuming that an atheist cannot be spiritual. you can be a spiritual buddhist or a spiritual atheist.
So a re-active state of mind has no free thought? How on earth did you decide this? Seperating yourself from thousands of years of control and limitations does not mean you cannot think for yourself.
A half sided arguement. One that doesn't include the politics of man. One of the most religious places on the planet is Sierra Leone and the results of such a place includes mass starvation, mass murder, terrorism, infanticide and poverty.
Also the idea that losing a religion effectively removes accountability is nonsense. I don't follow any religion, yet i truly believe in the rights of everyone, i even believe in karma...
Exactly the same could be said about school children being force fed the bible, Koran or anything else from a young and manipulative age. I think your problem lies in the education system and not in fact the atheist 'agenda'. Immerse anyone in any kind of overwhelming belief system and you will find problems.
I believe there a a billion undiscovered wonders of the universe. I ponder them on a daily basis and do you know what.... They are truly more magnificent to me, because i don't believe a higher being created them.
You seem to be of the belief that anyone who rejects the idea of god in the strongest possible way is somehow morally weak, shallow minded, unthinking and devoid of spirituality.
You seem to believe that being anti-religious is a bad thing.
Originally posted by Skyfloating
Discussion at last! May discussion be fruitful.
In actuality, you do not know whether higher realities exist or not, so you cannot conclude that they dont exist.
Taking the insanity of religion as proof that a Supreme Being does not exist is an error in thinking. A belief in higher realities and spiritual accountability has nothing to do with pedophilia and terrorism...in fact, it forbids it.
ot really. The term spiritual implies a higher reality of intelligent design, a spirit beyond the body. I dont know of any spiritual system that decries higher realms and supreme beings.
Atheism is not free of theism but merely its opposite. In order to be free from it one would need to invest in something different entirely. In other words: Attack is not solved by attack.
If you believe in karma you are not an atheist. Karma is a hinduistic concept. There is no religion in the world that has more Gods and Deities than Hinduism.
The wrong of religions does not justify creating an atheist agenda that forbids mention of higher realities / a supreme deity.
There is nothing inherently wrong with there possibly being more superior beings and some of the humility that goes along with pondering that. The idea "superior beings dont exist" as an absolute statement is questionable.
I think that does who state with certainty that there are no higher realities are deluded, morally weak and shallow minded, yes. If they were to state that as a possibility rather than a certainty I´d have more respect.