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Hacker loses extradition appeal

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posted on Jul, 31 2009 @ 04:59 AM
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reply to post by h3akalee
 


Going by, how far the American authorities have pursude this, and how mch they have continued to ask for his extrdition from the UK, make me believe hat he has not made this up.

Oh letme see the american authoritis want to get him over to the US for nothing right?




posted on Jul, 31 2009 @ 05:01 AM
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reply to post by Laurauk
 


I understand what you are saying aslong as you understand what i am saying.

Take care.

Regards
Lee



[edit on 31-7-2009 by h3akalee]



posted on Jul, 31 2009 @ 05:04 AM
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reply to post by h3akalee
 


I can see it now, American Authorities, face barrage of violence from locals over the extradition of Mr Gary Mckinnon, or it will be UK Extradition authorities, go to collect Mr Mckinnion, bu face a volatile barrage from Locals.

We will be classed as terroists, and taken off to gitmo




[edit on 31-7-2009 by Laurauk]



posted on Jul, 31 2009 @ 05:05 AM
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Well, being a hacker myself, i have this to say:



His hacking into computers without password protection (!)


If you leave your house without lock on the door and i can come in and steal all your stuff, it is stealing, no matter what.



is being portrayed by US prosecutors as "the biggest military computer hack of all time".


This is ridiculous and clearly they are trying to harm just because they were lazy and dumb, and now they are trying to harm and scare so no one will try the same or similar again, never.



He is a complete amateur. He used freely-available scripts to gain access to PCs that were left open due to the negligence of the NASA & military IT departments!


Just a script kiddie, a real hacker who actually understood the system created some scripts to exploit current holes in the architecture and this guy just used them to get access, completely true, this is the fault of the NASA security guys, who seem to think they are the top of the iceberg, while there are guys outside who can come and go out while they are still having their coffee break, silly guys.



And now he's facing the possibility of 60-70 years in prison.

Talk about a fall-guy.


Who he killed? ridiculous, trying to set an example out of this guy, and example against what? being curious?



If those behind the prosecution had had an ounce of common sense they would have kept this completely under wraps. Could it be that Gary actually saw real evidence of the type of super-advanced top-secret undercover black projects so beloved of ATS?


Of course we know they don't, the haven't and they will not have, the gov will not hire smart people to play against them, those are selected for more special jobs, and those jobs do not include public safety as its main goal.



If so, they should have kept this quiet instead of blowing this whole thing so out of proportion!


Because they will use him to set an example and scare future 'rebels', they will pretend to be dumb and innocent, and punish hard those who dare to questions and dare to look for answers themselves, once they have been denied official answers.

Basically, this has been going on since the beginning of the net and before, since the ma bell times, but we are on different times, we can't get out as we could before, i didn't grew up on those days, but i have friends who did, times have changed, and still, they remain the same.

I don't know how much he has seen, but i bet he at least saw something worthwhile, it is a shame, that he will have no chance to get it out, ever.

Kai



posted on Jul, 31 2009 @ 05:07 AM
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reply to post by h3akalee
 


OK, he did something wrong. He could have had a low-key trial in the UK & had his wrists slapped. Those who've looked at the case with an open mind generally conclude he is being made a scape-goat for very lapse security. But I agree - let the facts come out in a trial. But don't start with trumped-up charges of extensive damage to computer systems & extradition overkill.

The guy was a kid at the time. Idealistic/misguided. Anyone else been there?

His life has been ruined by this whole incident. The US should hang its head in shame.

I'm not against justice. On the contrary: let's see some proportionality.








[edit on 31/7/09 by pause4thought]



posted on Jul, 31 2009 @ 05:08 AM
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There's a petition against his extradition her:

petitions.number10.gov.uk...

I've signed it. Not sure what good it will do.



posted on Jul, 31 2009 @ 05:08 AM
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reply to post by Kaifan
 


Is that a smart move these day's ?

Ya know declaring yourself to be a hacker on a public website ?

Is that the done thing ?

Take care.

Regards
Lee




posted on Jul, 31 2009 @ 05:10 AM
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If you guys are really that serious then put your money were your mouths are and do something smart like create a Gary McKinnon legal fund and get him a great lawyer. I mean if you're willing to risk life and limb to try to prevent the inevitable wouldn't it be simpler to just open your purses and give up a few pounds.



posted on Jul, 31 2009 @ 05:12 AM
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Originally posted by h3akalee
reply to post by Kaifan
 


Is that a smart move these day's ?

Ya know declaring yourself to be a hacker on a public website ?

Is that the done thing ?

Take care.

Regards
Lee



I am already 'known' so to speak, and i am not afraid, so it is easier to do, since i 'play by the rules' these days, there are no more 'real hackers' as in the old days, even the originals are now working full legit business and having a good life in the 'real world'


So, no issue there.

Thanks



posted on Jul, 31 2009 @ 05:14 AM
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Originally posted by SLAYER69

If you guys are really that serious then put your money were your mouths are and do something smart like create a Gary McKinnon legal fund and get him a great lawyer. I mean if you're willing to risk life and limb to try to prevent the inevitable wouldn't it be simpler to just open your purses and give up a few pounds.


I'm skint, jobless and in-between studies. So as much as i'd like to donate enough money to save this man, i need to eat and live.

Why do you assume we are all rich?



posted on Jul, 31 2009 @ 05:16 AM
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Originally posted by mr-lizard


Why do you assume we are all rich?


Look things are tough ALL OVER I'll even kick in a few bucks. Do the leg work. I wont be able to give much but I'll add something to the kiddy.



posted on Jul, 31 2009 @ 05:20 AM
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reply to post by SLAYER69
 


Good man. That's the spirit. No-one is claiming the guy's a saint. But his minor misdemeanor is leading to his public execution. He deserves justice: a fair trial. For which he'll need massive legal backup.



reply to post by Kaifan
 


I'm on the fence about the following, but you're an expert, so: what do you say regarding the premise that many hackers have effectively worked towards increasing the security of computer systems by revealing their weaknesses? In fact, in Gary's case I'd go as far as to say what he has achieved is MASSIVELY in the public interest: if what "should" have been secret was so easily available online, it has exposed the monumental incompetence of the institutions funded by public taxation.




[edit on 31/7/09 by pause4thought]



posted on Jul, 31 2009 @ 05:22 AM
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Originally posted by SLAYER69

If you guys are really that serious then put your money were your mouths are and do something smart like create a Gary McKinnon legal fund and get him a great lawyer. I mean if you're willing to risk life and limb to try to prevent the inevitable wouldn't it be simpler to just open your purses and give up a few pounds.


I would also add a few bucks, i spent this week about $150 on drinks and stuff(girlfriend, party, nothing at all), why could i not spend 20, 50 on something worth more than having a party with some friends? i am just kind or selfish you know?

You are completely right here, i feel ashamed.

!Free Kevin!.. err, i mean, how is this guy named? i just noticed there's someone actually doing that, a few posts above, i'll have a look tomorrow first thing in the morning, gotta sleep now, excuses excuses..

Kai



posted on Jul, 31 2009 @ 05:32 AM
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reply to post by SLAYER69
 


As I just did in the other current thread regarding McKinnon, I must say I agree with Slayer69.

As I've stated previously, I don't think McKinnon will do any serious "time", if he does any at all.

Regardless of whether or not he should have stuck his nose in where he did, I hope for his sake they can wrap all this up soon so he knows where his life will be heading.

Unfortunately, there is every chance this will drag on for quite a long time.



posted on Jul, 31 2009 @ 05:32 AM
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reply to post by pause4thought
 


The US doesn't want the bad PR we've had enough of that over the past decade or so. They want a trial. PERIOD. With a conviction. The sentence however would most likely be a couple of years if that. I think the best thing the defense can do is put him on the stand once they see what a joke he is the whole thing will fall apart.

[edit on 31-7-2009 by SLAYER69]



posted on Jul, 31 2009 @ 05:32 AM
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Originally posted by pause4thought
reply to post by Kaifan
 


I'm on the fence about the following, but you're an expert, so: what do you say regarding the premise that many hackers have effectively worked towards increasing the security of computer systems by revealing their weaknesses? In fact, in Gary's case I'd go as far as to say what he has achieved is MASSIVELY in the public interest: if what "should" have been secret was so easily available online, it has exposed the monumental incompetence of the institutions funded by public taxation.




In the history of humanity, not only computers, there have been lots of people who sacrificed themselves to improve the current knowledge, science and understanding, there will always be people who will dare, but, depending on how people sees them, their can be heroes or criminals, most real hackers, have contributed to our current tech and life style, hackers created the internet, hackers created cell phones, airplanes, etc.

This guy will be punished because he exposed those weakness, and to set an example to anyone who will dare to follow in the future, in this case, well he was just a script kiddie, which means, he didn't actually understood and conquered the system he cracked, but, had he known the inner workings, i think the same or worst would have happened, i wonder if they would have punished Tesla or Einstein because they liked to thinker with stuff, well i guess they did with Tesla
, but, we have our current life style because of hackers, i just don't get it how now it has come to be 'illegal' to hack and improve, to find flaws and fix them, after all, thanks to that, we can have heart transplants, eye surgery and more, those are 'hackers' in the real sense of the word.

So yeah, you are right in thinking they have improved our lives, and this does apply to more than computer tech, hackers are everywhere, not only on computers, people just don't know the true meaning of what a hacker is.

Kai


Edited to say, did just i wrote 'hearth instead or heart ?
man i really gotta get some sleep, i wonder what else is up there..

[edit on 31-7-2009 by Kaifan]



posted on Jul, 31 2009 @ 05:34 AM
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Gordon Brown, grow a pair and tell them this....


You want him America, come and get him. But we pull out of Iraq, Iran, and every other skirmish in the middle east and you have to fight it out on your own. Good luck,



posted on Jul, 31 2009 @ 05:38 AM
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reply to post by PGRacer
 



You're already pulling out of Iraq.
UK concludes military involvement in Iraq

Britain has concluded its troop presence in Iraq following its six years of military involvement in the war-torn country.



posted on Jul, 31 2009 @ 05:57 AM
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reply to post by SLAYER69
 



The US doesn't want the bad PR we've had enough of that over the past decade or so.


The PTB are really shooting themselves in the foot with this one, then.


They want a trial. PERIOD. With a conviction.


Then why not accept a trial on Gary's home territory?


The sentence however would most likely be a couple of years if that. I think the best thing the defense can do is put him on the stand once they see what a joke he is the whole thing will fall apart.


The problem is that to date the prosecution could not have been more vigorous, which does not bode well for Garry.

Here's the indictment. Anyone with a real interest should check it out.

THIS VERSION EVEN HAS THE IP ADDRESSES OF THE HACKED COMPUTERS INSERTED INTO THE DOCUMENT:

November 2002 Grand Jury indictment

Talk about the PTB shooting themselves in the foot with this whole farce.




And here's the crunch:


...the defendant obtained administrator privileges and installed RemotelyAnywhere.
On some of the computers, the defendant installed tools used for obtaining
unauthorized access to computers. As a result of such conduct, the defendant
intentionally caused damage without authorization by impairing the integrity and
availability of data, programs, systems and information, and that damage caused loss
aggregating more than $5,000 in value during a one-year period to the identified
companies.


If that's the biggest military computer hack of all time I'm Barack Hussein Obama II's pet mongoose.



posted on Jul, 31 2009 @ 06:16 AM
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Originally posted by pause4thought
reply to post by SLAYER69
 



The US doesn't want the bad PR we've had enough of that over the past decade or so.


The PTB are really shooting themselves in the foot with this one, then.



I think, that at this time, they are so clueless, i mean, those who are or will be dictating sentences or 'judging' this guy, that they don't realize how dumb they look to the public.

It is important to realize that those who will be working on this case, are not as well informed as the gov hackers and that no hacker working for the gov which they have and lots and very good, will come out and explain what really happened and why.




They want a trial. PERIOD. With a conviction.


Then why not accept a trial on Gary's home territory?


Maybe because they want to set a precedent on the USA, otherwise they may not be able to use this 'case' in future 'problems', if this case get recorded in the books and the resulting sentence is as hard as they want it to be, they can later in the future use it as a reference maybe?




The sentence however would most likely be a couple of years if that. I think the best thing the defense can do is put him on the stand once they see what a joke he is the whole thing will fall apart.


The problem is that to date the prosecution could not have been more vigorous, which does not bode well for Garry.



Same as above, as hard as they can punish now, easier in the future for them.



Here's the indictment. Anyone with a real interest should check it out.

THIS VERSION EVEN HAS THE IP ADDRESSES OF THE HACKED COMPUTERS INSERTED INTO THE DOCUMENT:

November 2002 Grand Jury indictment

Talk about the PTB shooting themselves in the foot with this whole farce.




And here's the crunch:


...the defendant obtained administrator privileges and installed RemotelyAnywhere.
On some of the computers, the defendant installed tools used for obtaining
unauthorized access to computers. As a result of such conduct, the defendant
intentionally caused damage without authorization by impairing the integrity and
availability of data, programs, systems and information, and that damage caused loss
aggregating more than $5,000 in value during a one-year period to the identified
companies.


If that's the biggest military computer hack of all time I'm Barack Hussein Obama II's pet mongoose.




5000? where did they got that number!
, the cost of the backup cd's? i guess they use $200 dvds and have to hire an external consultant to come and format and then restore from cds the windoze on their machines


I would say more like $200, and then "during a one-year period "
, nobody noticed? really, i had a problem with a p2p app in my brother's computer a just recently, i found it in less than 5 minutes and removed everything from it, a full year? i guess nobody had been doing any maintenance on those computers, they just left them on their own for that time, wrong very wrong


I also think, those computers were not fully patched or updated, or maybe they were, but they were not, because, a full year?, and nobody came and checked the status, the network usage, the running processes? the cpu usage on idle, i mean, no security at all obviously, on any computer it takes about 5 minutes to gather that info, a full year?


[edit on 31-7-2009 by Kaifan]



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