Hacker loses extradition appeal

reply to post by pause4thought


I don't think resigning is the right thing for Mkinley to do, when you know you're up against it then you should fight from within, well that's' my opinion.


This is a BS case from start, I have a sneaky suspicion that there is far more involved than what meets the eye.

The US are not thick, they know full well that if Gary is tried in the UK he'll get a slap on the wrist token fine or free sky subscription and 3 square meals at one of Britains' cozy drug riddled prisons.

I mean c'mon how many sessions a week are there in probation services for crap computer hackers ?

Gary could very well benefit a great deal from a spell in a UK prison, he could end up sharing a cell with decent hacker.
Jonathan Ross and straight to the front of the housing association list for a nice new flat as soon as he gets out.

And what do celebs always get regardless of their looks or health ? Yup that's right SEX and more sex until the novelty wears off.

The US know for sure that the majority brits don't give a flying monkeys arse about the the alien stuff what he claims to have seen, they just love dudes who beat up authority.

It is far too easy to say, well he's broken the law and should face the consequences. This isn't about breaking the law this is about the UK courts being unable or unwanting to punish those that break it to the point of rewarding them.

reply to post by h3akalee


Actually, since there was no encryption or even any real security to bypass, the question of the illegality of his actions is a very real issue. These were open systems that required no real hacking at all. The laws are actually pretty vague on this. The real issue is why the UK is letting him be tried in a country where he never even visited to commit his crime. If he is to be tried he should be tried in the UK where the so called crime was commited.

[edit on 31-7-2009 by johnnyflip]

reply to post by pause4thought


I re-read the article and didn't see anything about life in prison.

Life in prison would be absurd.
CRAZY charges would be absurd (yet I am sure there will be some in the end).

I am not really sure what would be fair for this guy, especially with his illness.

Even with his illness though, he had to have some sort of idea that what he was doing is wrong.

There is a reason I am not a judge and do not plan on being one...

If he gets the hammer - that is what he gets and I will not feel sorry.
If he gets a slap on the wrist - so be it, I can see the reasoning.

Pros and cons to each side, and I do not carry the correct judgment to make an actual call. I still hold my ground on the punishment issue, yet the severity of that could be greatly argued and minimized.

I've seen the interviews of him and he seems like an all right guy that you could picture yourself clubbing with in London or some place.

My true sympathies go out to him because being an American I can tell you Brits right off that he is so screwed if he comes to this judicial hell hole.

For example. I have a friend who has a friend who got busted selling drugs a while back. His parents spent over 100 thousand dollars trying to save his behind, but as soon as the crooked lawyers had milked his parents dry, an old mean judge gave him 70 years in prison, saying that he wanted to make an example of him!... No Rape, No Murder, No Armed Robbery, No Assault and Battery, Nope.. Just drugs and it came to 70 years of imprisonment.

The USA penal system is a well oiled blood sucking machine that is going to rip him up and swallow him whole if he's extradited to here.

These people who are here on this thread smugly claiming that he broke the law and therefore deserves what he gets need to visit an American prison where the floors smell like piss, the inmates are abused regulary with dog wielding hacks, the toilets are stopped up and streaming into the halls, and you get killed over a pack of cigarettes.

Did the USA get compromised by his actions? Perhaps just a tiny little bit but rather than trying to seek vengence on the man perhaps they should be learning from him in order to keep future hackers out. Give the guy some probation and take his computer that was used to do the crime away but don't send him to our prisons for Christ's sake.

Being an American, my heart goes out to the poor guy if he has to come here and face the legal monster that the USA calls justice.

[edit on 1-8-2009 by 3DPrisoner]

I still can't believe that he is being extradited. He is a UK citizen and they want to send him away to be tried in a country where he didn't commit the crime.
To add to that he didn't cause anything near the amount of damage that they are accusing him of yet it is being called one of the biggest computer hacks of all time.
Sure, he committed a crime, but he should be tried in the UK where he committed that crime... not sent to the US.

What a joke.

reply to post by SLAYER69


yes draconian law!, tell it to all the people you have locked up in gitmo, an immature society with immature laws,
how the english government are allowing this extradition to happen is criminal, since the us has opted out of the human rights council how can they guarentee that gary will have a fair trial?

reply to post by FritosBBQTwist


at what point do you say that the law is wrong?, just because a crooked government says that something is law does that mean that you will adhere to it no matter what, do you ever drive over the speed limit?, how about in germany in 1939, would you have obeyed those laws?, how about pot being legal in holland, who is right? why does a government have the rights to dictate and rule over what we are allowed to do, i did not "vote" for them, i wouldn't choose those laws, america needs to understand that in the eyes of the rest of the world, they have a very poor image, they need to work on this, the americans just hate losing!, especially to an unemployed dope smoking layabout from scotland, it shows the american government to be what they are, a bunch of stupid moronic bumbling fools with a great deal of unfair and dangerous power at their finger tips

reply to post by funky monk



I agree,he is british and should face a trial here.Its a disgrace there going to drag him to america.

Mrs Clinton has also let slip in another unrelated event that america might stop sharing its intel with our country if details about interrorgation come out

This country has survived for many years with out america,we welcome their help in the 2nd world war and have repaid the debt of money owned

I think its time they leave their airbases,intel bases and any other military sites they have in this country.The only building they should have is their embassy in London.This country shouldnt be treated as a giant aircraft carrier,enough is enough

Originally posted by FritosBBQTwist
reply to post by pause4thought

 

I re-read the article and didn't see anything about life in prison.

He's 42/43 and is being threatened with up to 70 years in prison. I think that equates to life in prison.

Originally posted by pause4thought
Could it be that Gary actually saw real evidence of the type of super-advanced top-secret undercover black projects so beloved of ATS?

How can i put this, I know: No.

It's about one state exerting pressure over another.

Originally posted by Laurauk
reply to post by pause4thought

 

No, the US Defense, Pentagon what ever youwant to call it, were caught withthier pants down, and they want to make an example.

It beggars believe, that the law courts is allowing this to proceed. Absoultely disgusting to say the least.

Those judges should hang thier heads in shame.

I don't agree with the extradition partiularly in light of it being a one way situation but he broke the law in this country too. He should be tried but in the UK under the Computer misuse act.

Originally posted by SLAYER69

Originally posted by mr-lizard
reply to post by SLAYER69

 

You seem quite sure about that Slayer69, what gives you that idea (i ask in all honesty).

I thought he faces long term jail time.

Well if you have to ask then you really don't seem to know much about the American justice system. His lawyers will tie it all up or get it reduced to nothing.

You don't get Justice in court, you get law.

Originally posted by Laurauk
reply to post by h3akalee

 

I can see it now, American Authorities, face barrage of violence from locals over the extradition of Mr Gary Mckinnon, or it will be UK Extradition authorities, go to collect Mr Mckinnion, bu face a volatile barrage from Locals.

We will be classed as terroists, and taken off to gitmo

[edit on 31-7-2009 by Laurauk]

Neither will happen. The UK is an apathetic society. At best you'll have a few bystanders watching him being put in the back of a police car.

Originally posted by pause4thought
Those who've looked at the case with an open mind generally conclude he is being made a scape-goat for very lapse security.

If you don't go snooping where you aren't welcome or invited you will generally have no idea what the security is like.

If i was to forget to shut a window or lock a door before going out, that does not excuse someone coming in and snooping around - even if they don't take anything!

Originally posted by Thebudweiserstuntman
There's a petition against his extradition her:

petitions.number10.gov.uk...

I've signed it. Not sure what good it will do.

None at all.

Petitions are a waste of time at the best of times let alone when a case has been all through the English and European legal systems.

Originally posted by pause4thought
reply to post by SLAYER69

 

Good man. That's the spirit. No-one is claiming the guy's a saint. But his minor misdemeanor is leading to his public execution. He deserves justice: a fair trial. For which he'll need massive legal backup.



reply to post by Kaifan

 

I'm on the fence about the following, but you're an expert, so: what do you say regarding the premise that many hackers have effectively worked towards increasing the security of computer systems by revealing their weaknesses? In fact, in Gary's case I'd go as far as to say what he has achieved is MASSIVELY in the public interest: if what "should" have been secret was so easily available online, it has exposed the monumental incompetence of the institutions funded by public taxation.




[edit on 31/7/09 by pause4thought]

I think the public interest defence is a cop out - often used by hackers/script kiddies. He has stated his intent and it was not to alert the US authorities to possible weaknesses in their systems security.

"I robbed that bank but it was only to show them how it could be done".

Its nonsense.

Originally posted by PGRacer
Gordon Brown, grow a pair and tell them this....


You want him America, come and get him. But we pull out of Iraq, Iran, and every other skirmish in the middle east and you have to fight it out on your own. Good luck,

Our "boys" are only there to show we support the US, not as a massively practical force - look at the numbers if you have any doubts.

Obama didn't initiate the wars, he understandably couldn't give a rats ass if we pull out.. his commanders would just have to backfill the loss.

If you want McDoom to get involved, his point should be - he's not going anywhere until the UK can demand the extradition of a US citizen. If its not reciprocal, it doesn't apply.

Won't happen though so don't get your hopes up.

Gary McKinnon's conduct was in England. He can be tried in England.

Like so many legal issues, the solution adopts common sense as the benchmark. To sum up, where there is an offence in the home country of the offender, there is an option for the home country to bring the malefactor to justice either by prosecution or by extradition.

Alan Johnson is under huge pressure to 'pluck up the courage' to save Gary McKinnon after judges warned he might kill himself if extradited. They ruled they could not stop the Government from sending him to the U.S., where the vulnerable Asperger's sufferer faces up to 60 years behind bars.
But the two High Court judges declared in a pointed statement that, if extradited, 'his mental health will suffer and there are risks of worse, including suicide'.
Crucially, the judges also said the 43-year-old computer hacker could be prosecuted in London - a process which would automatically halt extradition

www.dailymail.co.uk...

We keep foreign criminals in the UK because their country is not so hot on human rights, yet will to send Mckinnon to the USA known for prison brutality.

reply to post by phoenix103

I think the public interest defence is a cop out - often used by hackers/script kiddies. He has stated his intent and it was not to alert the US authorities to possible weaknesses in their systems security.

"I robbed that bank but it was only to show them how it could be done".

Its nonsense.

Not if the bank left the front door wide open all night every night. And left the money in an unlocked drawer. And if all someone did was walk in & look around, most people would agree his curiosity had just got the better of him.

Previously you said:

If i was to forget to shut a window or lock a door before going out, that does not excuse someone coming in and snooping around - even if they don't take anything!

I agree. But redesigning an extradition treaty in order to nail the guy retrospectively then throw him in the slammer (in a foreign land) for life - would arouse extreme indignation from any right-minded citizen. Think about it.

I think the public interest defence is a cop out - often used by hackers/script kiddies. He has stated his intent and it was not to alert the US authorities to possible weaknesses in their systems security.

"I robbed that bank but it was only to show them how it could be done".

Its nonsense.

Obviously I understand where you're coming from here. He wasn't intending to expose security lapses. But the fact that he has, big style, is what has led to the PTB acting like an enraged bull. If the decisions had been in the hands of clear thinkers, however, they would have sought a low-key prosecution in the UK, then fixed their (non-existent) "security" systems. In effect he would have done them a favour - especially as he actually took nothing.

The aim is purely to destroy and silence someone who has exposed monumental incompetence. It achieves nothing except to make a laughing stock of the American authorities.

And it will have absolutely no effect on the malicious hackers / foreign governments who are intent on doing real harm.

The whole thing is a farce. A bazooka to kill a microbe.




[PS If you open additional browser tabs, you can push 'reply' to each post you are responding to, one at a time, then cut & paste the code + response back into a single reply, creating one long response in a single post. ]





[edit on 1/8/09 by pause4thought]

Originally posted by johnnyflip

Actually, since there was no encryption or even any real security to bypass, the question of the illegality of his actions is a very real issue. These were open systems that required no real hacking at all. The laws are actually pretty vague on this. The real issue is why the UK is letting him be tried in a country where he never even visited to commit his crime. If he is to be tried he should be tried in the UK where the so called crime was committed.

Actually there 'where' of the crime would depend in where the servers he 'hacked' were located I would think. Technically he committed the crime in both places, being he was physically in the UK but connected to the servers in a different location. If you steal millions from a bank in the caymans through electronic means (hacking, etc.) then you still committed the crime in the caymans. I would think that the legal eagles in question would be given the option of trying him at home however.

Chrono