PROOF that Pelosi and the Dems want to wipe out Private Insurance!, page 1

I found this article about Nancy Pelosi, aka Skeletor aka Wind Tunnel aka Plastic Surgery Addict, ranting and raving like some lunatic about the evil private insurance companies.

Her anomosity toward them is obvious. How are we supposed to believe her or Obama when they say they dont plan to destroy private insurance when she says things like this in public?

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - U.S. House of Representatives Speaker Nancy Pelosi on Thursday ramped up her criticism of insurance companies, accusing them of unethical behavior and working to kill a plan to create a new government-run health plan.

"It's almost immoral what they are doing," Pelosi said to reporters, referring to insurance companies. "Of course they've been immoral all along in how they have treated the people that they insure," she said, adding, "They are the villains. They have been part of the problem in a major way. They are doing everything in their power to stop a public option from happening."

Source

reply to post by fraterormus

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Thanks for your reply. What exactly is basic coverage? You are either covered or not. So if you only have basic then if something really bad happens to you they will just let you die?

There is no way private insurance can compete with the government that can piss money down a hole endlessly because they control the printing presses.

Almost every business in America will toss their workers off of private plans. Eight percent tax on payroll is nothing compared to what they are paying out for private insurance for their employees.

Private health insurance companies do not make a huge percent of profit.

[edit on 7/30/2009 by grapesofraft]

reply to post by jam321

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LMAO, great word play. That fits perfectly. You know how they say crazy people try to project their problems onto everyone else.

Well of course we are trading one evil for another evil, Health Insurance Companies for the Federal Health and Human Services Agency. However, the former is only interested in profit margins and is accountable only to it's Stock Holders, whereas the later is at least marginally interested in providing everyone some level of Health Care (rather than none) and is accountable not only to Congress but to the American Tax Payer as we are the ones who vote in those Representatives and Senators in Congress. I'd rather have the later than the former, although I agree that it is only a marginal improvement.

To grapesofwrath you said:

"Private health insurance companies do not make a huge percent of profit."

Are you sure about that?

Profits at the top ten of the nation’s largest health insurance companies rose 428 percent from 2000 to 2007, while consumers paid more for less coverage.

Our private health care insurance is costing us 6 time more per capita than what privatized health care systems cost in Western European Nations.

According to the HCAN Report Premiums Soaring in Consolidated Health Care Market (Granted, not an unbiased source but they do quote American Medical Association statistics)

In the past 13 years, more than 400 corporate mergers have involved health insurers, and a small number of companies now dominate local markets but haven’t delivered on promises of increased efficiency. According to the American Medical Association, 94 percent of insurance markets in the United States are now highly concentrated, and insurers are thriving in the anti-competitive marketplace, raking in enormous profits and paying out huge CEO salaries.

Sounds to me like they are profiting quite well and could use a little more competition.

The Private Health Insurance Companies made the same fear-mongering claims when Medicare/Medicaid was established. Private Health Insurance Companies are doing even better now than they did before, even catering to Medicare/Medicaid recipients. It wasn't doom and gloom for them then and it isn't going to be now. It's just that when an industry gets fat it doesn't like to have to change. The Music Industry is making the very same kind of complaints against File Sharers as the Health Insurance Companies are making against Congress, for the exact same reasons. They can and will make stupid profits still, they just have to change their business model to do such and they'd rather take the easy way of not changing.

reply to post by grapesofraft

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Uh? Yeah? And the problem is?

Let me explain something to you, Captain Reactionary. "Private insurance" is not an industry - it is a scam. When you "buy insurance" what you are in fact doing is giving somebody money in exchange for nothing. Insurance companies make a profit by denying claims, even those claims that a given plan says it covers. They control who you can go to for a doctor, they control what sort of treatment you can get, and if it turns out that you really do need treatment, and they may have to pay their part, they can simply refuse to do so and make you fight them in court, or they simply drop your plan.

This isn't just Immoral. This is staunchly anti-capitalist. Insurance companies are basically robbing their clients. This damages the buying power of any given individual and shakes their faith in the market system - not just as pertains to insurance, but overall. A consumer who's been bent over once isn't going to want to be bent over again, and will generally prefer to abstain from business where that might be a possibility

Further along hte anti-capitalist nature of these companies is the simple fact that htey don't compete. if they competed, market theory states that coverage would get better and rates would go down. Instead the absolute diametric opposite is true - rates go up while coverage goes down.

Now, personally I figure that that's more because capitalist market theory is wrong. But i'm pretty sure you don't entertain that outlook, and favor said theory - which would point to the insurance companies doing something very wrong and uncapitalist, wouldn't it?

The option being offered by the health care plan is competitive. Low rates, decent coverage. Those who can afford better will get better, but government competition at a loss WILL bring prices down among private insurers while prodding them to improve coverage - Which is a win-win for the consumer. And what's good for the consumer is always good for the business.

reply to post by TheWalkingFox

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Ok genius here are some stats for you. In 2007 the top 10 health insurance providers only profited by 7% or less of total revenue.

Rank Company %Profit per revenue
1 UnitedHealth Group 6
2 Wellpoint 5
3 Aetna 7
4 Humana 2
5 Cigna 7
6 Health Net 3
7 Coventry Health Care 7
8 WellCare Health Plans 4
9 Amerigroup 4
10 Centene -2

I wouldnt exactly call that a windfall profit margin.

When you "buy insurance" what you are in fact doing is giving somebody money in exchange for nothing.

No you are paying in money so they can invest it and hopefully get enough money in return to pay your health expenses and if they are lucky make a profit.


[edit on 7/31/2009 by grapesofraft]

[edit on 7/31/2009 by grapesofraft]

reply to post by TheWalkingFox

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They control who you can go to for a doctor, they control what sort of treatment you can get, and if it turns out that you really do need treatment, and they may have to pay their part, they can simply refuse to do so

And how does this differ from government ran health care exactly.

[edit on 7/31/2009 by grapesofraft]

reply to post by grapesofraft

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Talk about the pot calling the kettle black!

Pelosi, look in the mirror when you say that.

funny another 'fear the government plan' thread'. this one how ever is going to extreme lengths to make something out of nothing. if i were you i would stick to the old lines 'SOCIALIZED MEDICINE IS EVIL', 'LONG WAITS FOR HEART SURGERY', 'THE GOVERNMENT CANT DO ANYTHING RIGHT' you know all the lines out of the regan play book. because you have got no story here mate.

reply to post by grapesofraft

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link to your info on profits please?

Here is an example:

But CEO William McGuire, of UnitedHealth Group, a health insurance company, stands alone. His annual salary in 2005 was 124 million dollars and he has been provided stock options worth more than 1.7 billion dollars, according to Forbes.com. As part of his retirement package, he and his spouse will receive free health care for as long as they live, according to AFL-CIO Corpwatch.

link

Ya, nothing to see here right mate?


[edit on 31-7-2009 by Animal]

reply to post by Animal

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Here is a link to the source that you requested.

Source

reply to post by grapesofraft

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You do realize that if you scroll through the tabs on the link you provided you can see the profits in dollars right?

here is the rundown on profits from another tab in your link:

UnitedHealth Group $4,159,000,000

Wellpoint $3,095,000,000

Aetna $1,702,000,000

so the top 3 all make well over a BILLION dollars a year in profits. The total profits of the top 3 in 1 year is: $8,956,000,000

Humana $487,000,000

Cigna $1,155

Health Net $329,000,000

Coventry Health Care $560,000,000

WellCare Health Plans $139,000,000

Amerigroup $107,000,000

Centene $-44,000,000

Medical Mutual of Ohio $100,000,000

Molina Healthcare $46,000,000

Sierra Health Services $140,000,000

So the total PROFITS for these top 13 insurance companies is:

$11,975,000,000

Twelve BILLION dollars in one year for just the top 13. So you can try to make it sound like they do not make INSANE profits by saying 'well they only take home 7%'. However the reality is that 7% of one of the largest financial markets in the USA is a BIG CASH.

reply to post by Animal

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No kidding? LMAO!

Lets look at the number 1, United Health Group. They made 4 billion on 71 billion in sales. That is not an unreasonable amount of profit on that much revenue. What about the years they loose money. Are you going to make up the difference. Also, who is going to invest in a company that continually makes say 5 million on 71 billion on sales... just about nobody.

Also, look at number 10, Centene. They lost 44 million on 51 million in sales. So not everybody is rolling in a pile of cash.

reply to post by Animal

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The financial institutions that we just bailed out are worst and guess what in the government eyes they don't care, we have been forced to pay for their economic woes and outrageous bonuses regardless.

Just changing one crock for another.

The irony.

what is so obviously being overlooked here is the fact that there are 50,000,000 uninsured in the USA.

the close to $12,000,000,000 in profits that these corporations are ranking in is money being paid to these institutions by WE THE PEOPLE.

This also does not include the 'assets' and 'stock holder equity' that are also an element of these institutions profits. For example the $4.75 Billion PROFITS of UnitedHealth Group is only a 6% revenue. Then there is the 9% in assets, and the 20% of stock holders equity, which collectively equals 35% of the total income. A hell of a lot more than the simple 6%.

That means that 35% of UnitedHealth Groups income does NOT go to treating illness but to enriching the company, it's employees and the stock holders.

And to as a response to the statement that these profits are not 'too much' I say you must be joking. This is ridiculous. It is profiting on people's RIGHT to be healthy. If these institutions actually intended to SERVE we the people rather than enriching themselves that would be one thing, but that simply is not the case.

A huge chunk of the 'enriching employees' can be seen in this:

CEO William McGuire, of UnitedHealth Group, a health insurance company, stands alone. His annual salary in 2005 was 124 million dollars and he has been provided stock options worth more than 1.7 billion dollars

link

That is close to $2BILLION in pay for one year. Pay that comes from people who are paying to ensure they will be able to get medical treatment when they get ill. Sadly because 35% of what people paid to UnitedHealth Group does not go to paying for illness very often even those who CAN afford to pay for coverage still go bankrupt when they get ill.

This year, an estimated 1.5 million Americans will declare bankruptcy. Many people may chalk up that misfortune to overspending or a lavish lifestyle, but a new study suggests that more than 60 percent of people who go bankrupt are actually capsized by medical bills.

link

So 60% of those who go bankrupt are those who got sick. On top of that we have 50,000,000 people who can't even afford coverage and yet we have institutions like UnitedHealth Group making BILLIONS of dollars in profits. Am I the only one here who sees the obvious problem and solution.


[edit on 31-7-2009 by Animal]

[edit on 31-7-2009 by Animal]

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