PROOF that Pelosi and the Dems want to wipe out Private Insurance!, page 2

reply to post by Animal

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That is ridiculous. You realize assets include things like the buildings they work from and the equiptment they use, like desks, computers, phones, etc... The other larger part of the assets number is their investments. Ths is how insurance companies function. They invest their money hoping ot get a postive return so they will have the cash they need to pay for the millions of dollars of expenses they incur when you get something like cancer.

What do you expect them to do, run their business out of tents and cardboard boxes and process your claim on an abacus? Or maybe you would rather communicate your billing issues to them via morse code than to use a phone.

As far as stockholder equity that is not something that comes out of the revenues. It is a gamble on future profits of the company. It doesnt take one dime away from paying expenses.

Ok so one guy made a lot of money. You have to pay well to get a good CEO or they will just go to another company to work. Do you want some moron running the insurance business into the ground?

You wait until the government gets control of things they will waste way more than 50 billion a year just by doing things the way they usually do. Their will be corruption and every other sort of craziness imaginable.

[edit on 7/31/2009 by grapesofraft]

Originally posted by grapesofraft
reply to post by Animal

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That is ridiculous. You realize assets include things like the buildings they work from and the equiptment they use, like desks, computers, phones, etc... The other larger part of the assets number is their investments.

That does not change the fact that these ASSETS are part of the companies worth. The definition of Asset is as follows:

In business and accounting, assets are economic resources owned by business or company. Any property or object of value that one possesses, usually considered as applicable to the payment of one's debts is considered an asset. Simplistically stated, assets are things of value that can be readily converted into cash.

link

Originally posted by grapesofraft
This is how insurance companies function. They invest their money hoping ot get a positive return so they will have the cash they need to pay for the millions of dollars of expenses they incur when you get something like cancer.

They invest their money to make more money. The insurance premiums WE pay are what is suppose to pay for our illnesses, when the corporations decide they will actually pay. Remember 60% of bankruptcies in the USA are due to medical treatment.

Originally posted by grapesofraft
What do you expect them to do, run their business out of tents and cardboard boxes and process your claim on an abacus? Or maybe you would rather communicate your billing issues to them via morse code than to use a phone.

No, but that does not mean we should be ignoring this aspect of their Net-Worth.

Originally posted by grapesofraft
As far as stockholder equity that is not something that comes out of the revenues. It is a gamble on future profits of the company. It doesnt take one dime away from paying expenses.

No, your wrong.

Shareholders' equity comes from two main sources. The first and original source is the money that was originally invested in the company, along with any additional investments made thereafter. The second comes from retained earnings which the company is able to accumulate over time through its operations. In most cases, the retained earnings portion is the largest component .

link

Originally posted by grapesofraft
Ok so one guy made a lot of money. You have to pay well to get a good CEO or they will just go to another company to work. Do you want some moron running the insurance business into the ground?

So that excuses corporations form taking out money for a vital service like health care and giving a HUGE chunk of it to one of their employees? IMHO this is in-excusable.

Originally posted by grapesofraft
You wait until the government gets control of things they will waste way more than 50 billion a year just by doing things the way they usually do. Their will be corruption and every other sort of craziness imaginable.
[edit on 7/31/2009 by grapesofraft]

The staple Reganistic argument. It is a tired ploy to SCARE the people into fearing the government and trusting the corporations. Real logical.


[edit on 31-7-2009 by Animal]

[edit on 31-7-2009 by Animal]

reply to post by Animal

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The problem with Americas government is that believe it or not it has a very bad record when it comes to government run programs.

You do know that right?

Too many private interest having our for the people elected officials deep down in their pockets.



BTW the only ignorants are those that refuse to see beyond the promises of Utopia.



[edit on 31-7-2009 by marg6043]

Originally posted by marg6043
reply to post by Animal

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The problem with Americas government is that believe it or not it has a very bad record when it comes to government run programs.


You do know that right?

The US government absolutely has problems that need to be fixed. However, disassembling the government all together is not going to do anything for this nation but create more problems.

It would be like a child who sees the flaws in the school system saying "well, this is not a perfect system and has inherent flaws so I am not going to go to school, better no education that one accumulated in a flawed system". That is purely illogical and will only lead to a bigger problem, ignorance.

Yes the system is flawed, but that does not mean it can not be improved upon.

Originally posted by marg6043
Too many private interest having our for the people elected officials deep down in their pockets.

Yes, that is for sure. A perfect example is the Health Care Industry, that would rather use it's money to buy off our representatives and the media to spin a public option to look like it was cause more problems than it solves to prevent having to compete in a 'free market' with an institution that will undoubtedly provide better care.

Originally posted by marg6043


BTW the only ignorants are those that refuse to see beyond the promises of Utopia.

If you are referring to me your comment is misplaced. I do not ask for utopia I ask for PROGRESS. That is why I call myself a 'progressive'.

Ignorant people do tend to cling to dogmatic ideology and refuse to embrace anything 'else' because it conflicts with their dogma. I personally strive for progress, not perfection. I understand there are flaws in the government system but I sincerely believe they are overshadowed by the current flaws we see in private health care system.

Again, as I have pointed out time and time again, something the right-wing libertarian fringe refuses to even acknowledge is the fact that currently the USA is ranked #37 int he world for quality of health care and at the same time we spend 200% per-capita' of what the rest of developed-advanced nations spend AND we still have 50,000,000 uninsured.

You talk about how the government is only going to make things worse, well based on all the EVIDENCE that is out there I doubt it. First off those opposed to this refuse to admit to the limited impact government is actually going to have on our health care, that they are going to insure the 50,000,000 uninsured, that billions are wasted every year by making those in charge of the health care industry filthy rich, and that everywhere else in the world where public to socialized systems are in place have astronomically better care.

reply to post by Animal

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You are from Mexico, so what is your interest in whether Americans have free healthcare or not. Is it because you know some people who would like to cross the border and get some free health care or do you just want to see our country fail?

[edit on 7/31/2009 by grapesofraft]

Originally posted by grapesofraft
reply to post by Animal

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You are from Mexico, so what is your interest in whether Americans have free healthcare or not. Is it because you know some people who would like to cross the border and get some free health care or do you just want to see our country fail?
[edit on 7/31/2009 by grapesofraft]

Wow, go back to school!!!

NEW MEXICO is the 47th state of the USA as of 1912.

We are nestled snugly between Texas to the east, Arizona to the West and Colorado to the north.

Look us up, it is really a rather beautiful state. It is after all, the 'land of enchantment'.

Funny how you had to resort to personal race based attacks rather than deal with the topic at hand. Poor form mate, poor form.

[edit on 31-7-2009 by Animal]

reply to post by Animal

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LMAO, My bad... Sorry about the mistake. So why do you keep saying "YOUR" healthcare system if you are an American citizen. It would be "OUR" system since we are all Americans.

reply to post by Animal

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As far as the issues go, I will take your word that we are ranked 37th for quality. So I would say if we are 37th now with private companies in charge it will fall into the deepest pit once the government takes over. Have you ever had one pleasant experience going to any government agency for help or to get a permit or license for your auto? They are all self entitled assholes.

reply to post by grapesofraft

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why would it get worse when the evidence shows clearly that when the government Is involved health care tends to be BETTER?

reply to post by Animal

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It will get worse. All the doctors are going to be overworked and pissed off. You will have some government representative in charge of what doctors you have. It will be a nightmare. Now at least people are friendly and not condescending. But you know the government will fill it with a bunch of lazy retards like they do every other government position and everyone you interact with will be all nasty.

Personally, if the government takes over healthcare I hope somebody at least finds some way to create hospitals and doctors offices that are totally seperate and free of the government. I will pay whatever it takes to get me in there.

Let alone the FACT that this will BANKRUPT THE NATION! We cant even pay the bills as it is and now we are going to give everyone free healthcare. That is the stupidest thing I have ever heard.

I bet it would be cheaper for the government just to buy insurance for the 50 million uninsured people, though I think it is closer to 40 million.

The government f's up everything it touches.. how is this going to be any different. My insurance company is fine. Never had a problem with them. My doctors are pleasant. I dont have to jump through a bunch of hoops and best of all it is none of the governments business what my health status is.

[edit on 7/31/2009 by grapesofraft]

Originally posted by grapesofraft
reply to post by Animal

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It will get worse.

Sorry but why would I take YOUR word for it?

Those opposed to this legislation fail to present any moving and reliable evidence for their argument. Instead all we are given is opinions based on opinions when there is plenty of hard evidence to support the creation of a public option.

Until someone presents good factually based arguments for why this wont work I will not buy into your hype.

Originally posted by grapesofraft
I found this article about Nancy Pelosi, aka Skeletor aka Wind Tunnel aka Plastic Surgery Addict, ranting and raving like some lunatic about the evil private insurance companies.

Her anomosity toward them is obvious. How are we supposed to believe her or Obama when they say they dont plan to destroy private insurance when she says things like this in public?

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - U.S. House of Representatives Speaker Nancy Pelosi on Thursday ramped up her criticism of insurance companies, accusing them of unethical behavior and working to kill a plan to create a new government-run health plan.

"It's almost immoral what they are doing," Pelosi said to reporters, referring to insurance companies. "Of course they've been immoral all along in how they have treated the people that they insure," she said, adding, "They are the villains. They have been part of the problem in a major way. They are doing everything in their power to stop a public option from happening."

Source

good!!....i'm tired of rich people making a profit off of my health care premiums or the outlandish expenses and costs coming out of my pocket for anything medical. or have the ability to deny a life saving operation to me because they are afraid they won't get paid...f' them...single payer for me...it's amazing the MSM won't go to other countries and ask the people on the street if they like their socialized medicine...i think it's forbidden by the corporate media head honchos. controlled talking heads on the "news" programs are easier to "shape" the discussions on this.

reply to post by Animal

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It will be a total trainwreck. Anyone with a lick of common sense and the ability to observe how the government handles everything else can clearly see that it will have massive cost overruns and the customer service will totally suck.

Plus, the doctors are already overworked and now you expect them to serve 50 million extra clients for less money than they are making now. That is like living in Fantasy Island.

If I were a doctor and this thing passed, I would quit.

MARK MY WORDS. IF THIS PASSES. IT WILL BANKRUPT THE NATION.

Since you are so into hard facts why dont you explain to me with facts how in the hell they are going to be able to pay for this without a massive tax increase.


[edit on 7/31/2009 by grapesofraft]

Originally posted by grapesofraft
Since you are so into hard facts why dont you explain to me with facts how in the hell they are going to be able to pay for this without a massive tax increase.

No, I am for a massive tax increase on the wealthiest 1%. By all means have at it.

reply to post by grapesofraft

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again, why should i take YOUR word for it.

the beauty of ats is all the people who bring their opinions and then back them up with FACTS.

how about playing along and showing us some good hard evidence that supports the views you are sharing?

until then you are just wearing out the nubs of your fingers typing useless information that will do nothing to sway anyone as it has no clout.

[edit on 31-7-2009 by Animal]

reply to post by Animal

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Well where are all of your wonderful facts?

I am sure people like you are all about a massive tax increase as long as you are not the one being taxed. I guess some people like to steal money from others and then make themselves feel better by calling it taxes or redistribution of wealth.

Originally posted by grapesofraft
reply to post by Animal

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No kidding? LMAO!

Lets look at the number 1, United Health Group. They made 4 billion on 71 billion in sales. That is not an unreasonable amount of profit on that much revenue. What about the years they loose money. Are you going to make up the difference. Also, who is going to invest in a company that continually makes say 5 million on 71 billion on sales... just about nobody.

Also, look at number 10, Centene. They lost 44 million on 51 million in sales. So not everybody is rolling in a pile of cash.

You are forgetting the billions that they give away to executives and upper management. Their true profit is easily double this amount. Then you need to factor in how much profit that goes to other cpompanies that is built into their medical costs. By the time you get through with it profit represents more than half of the premiums they bring in. This is on top of the extremely high salasires they pay their executive sand upper manangement. Plus we all know SEC filings are only worth they are printed on.

reply to post by sligtlyskeptical

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You know if you all have such a problem with insurance companies then just save your money each month and pay your own medical expenses. If you are worried about a catastrophic illness then by the REALLY CHEAP insurance that only kicks in when you go over like 10k in expenses. If you take the time, you can negotiate lower costs with your doctors, pharmacists, and hospitals or even get the rates prenegotiated by your catastrophic health insurance provider.

reply to post by grapesofraft

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Negotiate with the health care providers? It is against the law for them to offer any services below the cost of private insurance. Didn't you knw that with all your expertise? I would bet you either have no health insurance or your employer pays the whole cost.

The private insurance companies suck. Most everyone will agree with that except when the subject of goverment healthcare comes up. You do realize that half of our nations health costs are already under goverment run programs. Ask anyone on those programs if their care is poor or if they are willing to give them up. The answer is almost always no.

You do also realize that Medicaire costs are only slightly higher per capita than those of private insurance. This is pretty dang good because medicaire only covers old people with substantially higher medical needs.

You do also realize that Medicaire, while a goverment healthcare program is administered by private for profit companies?

It is my belief that all profit should be taken out of caring for the elderly, sick and injured. That doesn't mean that healthcare workers shouldn't be paid a very attractive salary. Did you know that most doctors in the socialized health care programs throughout the world make more than the average US doctor?

Everything you argue with is a lie that has spoon fed you to keep the current system of payola going.

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