Big Bang..., page 1

reply to post by InfaRedMan

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I agree to what you say about Big bang being the cause of time. Meaning that some say that there was no time before the Big Bang.

But if there was no time before the Big Bang. There would be nothing to cause the Big Bang. If there ever was a Big Bang.

We cant say that energy always was and always is and at the same time say that there was no time. If there is no time there is no changes. No cause to create a Big Bang.

So if there was no time before the Big Bang. That would mean that energy ain't infinite. But created some how at a point in time.

Originally posted by spy66
reply to post by InfaRedMan

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I agree to what you say about Big bang being the cause of time. Meaning that some say that there was no time before the Big Bang.

But if there was no time before the Big Bang. There would be nothing to cause the Big Bang. If there ever was a Big Bang.

We cant say that energy always was and always is and at the same time say that there was no time. If there is no time there is no changes. No cause to create a Big Bang.

So if there was no time before the Big Bang. That would mean that energy ain't infinite. But created some how at a point in time.

Fancy eh', fancy for something cannot come from nothing, unless it's a guy who creates stuff on a whim.

I think the universe which is what we perceive around us, is only a small view of what is actually there!

Although in this thinking it makes one feel extremely insignificant. It witholds the answer of where did it all come from.

We may, and quite possibly never know were it all came from, and if we do, trust me by brain along with tons of others, will explode in a fury.

As long as we keep going step by step, we're making progress, I mean if you look at what we've done in our lifetimes is excellently great!

We've discovered our solar system, sent machines/drones out to study it, and we're still trying to grasp how our own universe came about, not to even begin to think how the universe, into which breed our extremely small universe into it, and how that bigger universe, came to behold the smaller universe which held our smaller universe which we're in, and so on and so forth, till we find the answer.

Sad thing, is in our lifetime we will die and become atoms again without ever knowing the answer.

reply to post by Republican08

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I am not saying that there has to be a creator. I am just saying that A BIG BANG just dont happen without a source and a cause within the sources existing. Now this is just my logic talking.

I have a question for you. Do you know of anybody that can prove that energy always have existed?

I also agree that humans have made great progress. But can we measure that progress to anything?
In my mind we are where we are and we dont know how much we really know. Because we have nothing or nobody to compare it to. But we could argue if we would have known more if we did things differently.

The Big Bang, the beginning of our universe as mainstream physicists have theorized, had a starting point; a singularity. So, it was only the one ‘bang’, not several. Since observation is obviously not an option to prove this theory (we don’t have a time machine or a TARDIS to go back and watch it happen) the problem had been proving it mathematically. The development of the String Theory and its ten dimensions, largely influenced by Quantum Mechanics, went further than any other concept at balancing the equation. Simply put, with String Theory they could pare down through the effects of the ‘bang’ almost all the way to its inception. But it sort of got stuck there and no one had the answer to move beyond that impasse.
Then, a guy named Witten figured there must be an eleventh dimension, something the scientific community laughed at … until …
They plugged it into their formula for various theories that could not be mathematically proven due to imbalance, like the Big Bang.
And all of a sudden the math worked. In fact it worked so well, they not only could track everything back to the singularity, but discovered they could calculate beyond it, or through it as the case may be, to before the Big Bang. And yes that means time existed before, ya know … da big boom, boom.
It’s known as M- Theory or Membrane Theory.
Here’s a vid that briefly explains it, but there are much better ones you can find on the net from the Discovery Channel and PBS’s Nova. Also, The New Scientist online publication has some good articles on it.

I know it sounds complicated, and I really didn’t give a comprehensive explanation – Sorry about that – But if you invest an hour or two watching or reading, I promise you, you’ll pick it up enough to tell your co-worker with some authority that you know what really happened – in theory, of course.

reply to post by VitalOverdose

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Space can't be infinite small without being infinite big as well. You can't have the one without the other.

So a singularity is just a theory. What created the singularity?
It can't be infinite small without being infinite BIG. It cant just be one of them. If it is infinite small it is infinite big as well.

Question: what force made the singularity infinite small?
It must have been a force that is more powerful then it is.

Question: What force is more powerful then infinite power?
Nothing is. Because it is as powerful as it could ever get. And something that is as powerful as it ever will get will never explode.

A singularity cant have been infinite small. It would never have exploded if it had a infinite size. It would still be a singularity to day.

Edit:
A new Question: How can you explain our periodic table of elements and energy to a singularity?

Do the periodic table and the singularity have anything in common?

[edit on 27.06.08 by spy66]

reply to post by QuestionItAll

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Time is a Human Expression...

It is a measurement of, "the rate of Change in things" !

But if there is a base Time, ie the rate of Change in things, what do we compare this to, in order to understand.

Is the so called Size of the Universe Relative and Not absolute ???

And what is behind the laws of physics, that govern such activity, (in the Universe) and what established these laws ???

Why does humankind LOVE, Big explosions and Fireworks ???

Is the Universe really what we believe it to be ???

Or is it a very small thing, compared to our "Awareness" ???

Which Leads us into a Question of where Did Awareness (also Called LIFE, Consciousness, or Mind) come from ???

I have never seen "Consciousness" come out of an explosion, No matter how Big or Small !!!

I propose that "Awareness" is The Root of All, and it is through "Awareness", All has Come into existence !!!

The Observer and The Observed..

Your Awareness or Consciousness is Aware of your Body...

But is Your Body Aware of Your Consciousness or Awareness or LIFE ???

Any Thoughts on this ???



[edit on 26-7-2009 by The Matrix Traveller]

reply to post by spy66

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The theory does not contend that the singularity is infinitely small. The math wouldn't work with such a variable as infinity. It is, in theory, about the size of the head of a pin.

What produced it? According to the Super Gravity theoreticians, and their 'Membrane Theory', it was when two membranes, (or universes), parallel to our own, 'bumped'. These membranes ... they are not stagnant, just sitting there motionless. They have energy and movement in the form of waves, or ripples if you will. Think of two flags flapping next to each other in a mild wind. The point of contact between the two was a violent interaction, a force so great it created another universe in its wake. Ours. And the matter within was created from the ripples 'bleeding' in to this universe from that encounter.

Remember, this bang was hot. And happened in an instant. Theoretically, according to the Standard Model, there were particles that were produced, specifically building block particles like the Higgs boson, or so called "god particle" that interacted with this 'neutral' matter streaming out from the singularity and giving each of the particles (the elements) mass at a sub atomic level (leptons and quarks).
Thing is, the Higgs field, or its boson particle indicator, has yet to be observed.
Hence the building of the Large Hadron Collider by CERN to attempt a 're-creation' of that moment in hopes to observe the particle, or observe its direct influence on other particles.
The periodic table has 112 elements, with
"place holders' for five more that, through extrapolation, we know to be there but have yet to be observed. You'll notice they are laid out based on mass - lightest to heaviest.
As I mentioned, according to theory, all of the elements we know of, and all that have yet to be discovered, are the direct result of the above mentioned theory.
There are other, 'Higgsless' models to explain the origin of particles and the elements. Theories that, without proof either way as of yet, seem just as plausible. (i.e. Abbott-Farhi model, TQC, Technicolor)

And who is to say God didn't cause those membranes to touch, sparking a new canvas for him to get creative?
You know the quote by Einstein, "God doesn't play dice with the universe?" He meant it is not up to chance that things interact the way they do ... it is by design.

reply to post by LatentElement

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Well if they "bumped once it stands to reason they would bump again.I personally do not subscribe to the big bang theory at all.A theory is just that a theory, somebody's idea of what may have happened.If you believe the big bang theory is possible you must also admit the McDonalds theory;some one pulled into the universal drive through and order a universe with a side of galaxies w/extra planets some black holes and asteroids and comets,or What I will know be calling the small pack where the universe was so big you couldn't even see another celestial body w/ a telescope,then the owner of the universe decided to go on a trip and "packed us all in tighter together so we were easier to move.Just as plausible right?

reply to post by spy66

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Time is a Human Expression...

It is a measurement of, "the rate of Change in things" !

Exactly and if nothing can change because theres no space (up,down,left,right.etc) then there can be no time. Thats the theory anyway.Im not all that convinced with big bang theory myself.

Do the periodic table and the singularity have anything in common?

Well maybe .. we know that if you put a huge amount of energy into a very very small space, elements just appear out of thin air. Thats what they do in particle acelerators. When we smash atoms together they produce enough energy to mimic the big bang (on a very tiny scale). Then huge computers scan all the elements that get created and we learn a bit more about how the big bang might have worked. So somehow they have to be linked.

reply to post by QuestionItAll

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There are many people who find the idea of a Creator or God offensive to their senses, and prefer the theory of creation by the big bang method, as theorized by physicists. But Science has often been proved wrong over the centuries, as more knowledge has been gained on various matters.

Much has been written about the Big Bang, but there is also a good deal of published information supporting the idea of a Prime Creator, with a series of subordinate Creator Gods building and running a series of super-universes, each one containing many individual universes with many billions of planets in each one.

Humans here on Earth measure time in a linear way, which suits our daily lives, where time is so important to the running of our societies. It is very difficult for Mankind to understand the natural time, where the past, present and future are all part of the same ‘Now’, and humanity also has a problem understanding the totality of Creation, because it is so vast.

It is fashionable in our society to believe that there is no God and/or no Creator, because we can’t see one, so therefore one does not exist. After all, so the theory goes, isn’t mankind superior to all other forms of known life? A Big Bang theory sits neatly into this view, since as there is no Creator, it must have happened by accident; something like a big bang, or a series of big bangs.

If we look at the discovery of DNA, what a superb revelation by Science, but is not yet fully understood due to its complexity? The first couple of layers are the ones currently understood by Science, and the other non-activated layers are at present regarded as junk. Even if we only look at the activated layers, can these really have been the result of an accidental big bang?

There is a complex pattern contained therein, which in my view can only be the work of a mind so infinitely superior to that of mankind, as to belong to Prime Creator.

reply to post by genius/idoit

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Yes, they are 'bumping' all the time, and creating a parallel universe every time they do. In theory.

Sure, I'm game. McDonald's Theory, Taco Bell Theory ... what ever you can think up as the starting point of our little neck of the woods I would consider plausible.

As long as you have the math to back it up. Otherwise you are simply relaying a fantasy ... or maybe starting a new religion?

They don't just sit back, light up a fattie and dream this stuff up, bro. Yes, they do try to think outside the box, but if the theory can not be substantiated by the contemporary laws of physics (as we know them) then it is not in line with the goal.

What's the goal? To answer those questions mankind has been asking since we became aware of our own existence.
To make sense, physical sense, of the universe we live in. To find that one, elegant, unifying theory that will apply to all the forces that act on the matter and energy that surround us.
To understand exactly where we came from, and where can we go from here.

Actually ... going to a drive through does sound pretty good from where I'm standing. I'm starved!

Originally posted by The Matrix Traveller
reply to post by QuestionItAll

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Time is a Human Expression...

It is a measurement of, "the rate of Change in things" !

But if there is a base Time, ie the rate of Change in things, what do we compare this to, in order to understand.

Is the so called Size of the Universe Relative and Not absolute ???

And what is behind the laws of physics, that govern such activity, (in the Universe) and what established these laws ???

Why does humankind LOVE, Big explosions and Fireworks ???

Is the Universe really what we believe it to be ???

Or is it a very small thing, compared to our "Awareness" ???

Which Leads us into a Question of where Did Awareness (also Called LIFE, Consciousness, or Mind) come from ???

I have never seen "Consciousness" come out of an explosion, No matter how Big or Small !!!

I propose that "Awareness" is The Root of All, and it is through "Awareness", All has Come into existence !!!

The Observer and The Observed..

Your Awareness or Consciousness is Aware of your Body...

But is Your Body Aware of Your Consciousness or Awareness or LIFE ???

Any Thoughts on this ???



[edit on 26-7-2009 by The Matrix Traveller]

You are the first person who has stated what I believe on these forums.

First the creator became aware. Then conscious.

Out of that came the universes, galaxies, and so on.

We are all part of the creator just as the moon and the sun.

I don't expect anyone to agree with me. I will not try and convert anyone, and I expect the same back.

To me everything started with an awareness...but I got no proof

By the way I don't believe that the body has an awareness of the mind. It is just a vessel carrying you...but again, I got me no proof..

Originally posted by tribewilder

You are the first person who has stated what I believe on these forums.

First the creator became aware. Then conscious.

Out of that came the universes, galaxies, and so on.

We are all part of the creator just as the moon and the sun.

I don't expect anyone to agree with me. I will not try and convert anyone, and I expect the same back.

To me everything started with an awareness...but I got no proof.

Well, I agree with you that Creation was created, and wasn't just a big bang.

If you are looking for some proof and want to read some information about this creative process, there is a free to read book on-line:

www.thenewearth.org...

The Return of Light is a channeled work of the Creator God Horus through Elora Gabriel. Channeled books, messages and papers have been received by humanity over eons of time, including some remarkable ones in recent centuries.

Another book, The Urantia Book, is a vast channeled work about Planet Earth, which is known to the rest of Creation as Urantia, in the local universe of Nebadon. It is a very complex and difinitive work and and is free to read on-line at the website of the Urantia Book Fellowship:

urantiabook.org...

Paper 57, The Origin of Urantia, which is one of a vast number of papers making up the book can be read as a PDF file here:

urantiabook.org...

reply to post by Tallsorts

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I'm sorry ... But ... Wow.
In the first link the four compilers of the book are acknowledged ... and the source is information 'channeled' by one of them who is in contact with 'other beings'. Then it goes into explaining how, Horus (Yep the same one from Egyptian Mythology) is the "God of Light, Wisdom, Spiritual Vision, and Protection."
Actually, its my understanding his name in Egyptian mythology was attributed to many "forms of Horus" and some say he 'wore so many hats' it seemed he manifested as the "God they needed at the time".

And this Horus is a "Creator God" and seems to have had a hand in our creation and continued existence.

I'm kind of at a loss here ... The word "proof" was mentioned. I'm just not seeing it, sorry.

Just a note here ... My sister is a channeler. She does not know why or how this ability came to her, but she does have contact beyond the ephemeral life on earth as we know it. And when I asked here just now if she ever was in contact with Mythological entities from earths past ... She laughed and said ... "That's like saying Sherlock Holmes or even the God Atlas was really a person. I can't channel fictional characters, silly. Only people who actually lived ... and died, of course"
And, I must apologize if anyone is offended by the content of the quote.
Also, I'm not trying to dissuade anyone from reading the channeled work referenced by the venerable member. The only way to find out if it makes sense to you is to read it.

I know there are things out there (and some of them way out there) that have yet to be explained. And we are all entitled to have our own beliefs.


But it seems to me, and IMHO, putting faith in the myths of the past is sorta going backwards, no?

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