Marines charged in rape of 12-year-old girl

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Originally posted by visible_villain
You have the spunk to advise me ?
Ok, my brother ( in arms, if not in intelligence ), I am offended by your monkeylike attitude of 'might makes right' ...

WHAT? "Monkeylike attitude"? What does that mean? "Might makes right"?! What?!

What are you even talking about? I'm NOT sorry for trying to defend those that I love that are, or have served, in the Marine Corps.

Your pathetic jokes about the intelligence of the members of the Marine Corps - and DON"T try and backpedal about it now because it has been made public - are falling on deaf ears. You think that because you served in the Navy that, somehow, you are intellectually superior? Well (self censored!!!!)

By the way, my Grandfather and Great Uncle fought in WWII, serving with the NAVY, against the Japanese so I don't have anything against the Navy - or any other branch of service. I support them all.

What I don't appreciate is YOUR churlish attempts at humor in expense of those members of our nation that are fighting honorably. This post is about something serious. If YOU can't refrain from adolescent jibes at 'opposing' members of the armed services then I'd submit that YOU are the one with less intelligence, sir.

P.S. Your comments reinforce my previous posts that suggest that not all members of the armed services are necessarily worthy of the honor or respect given them. Shame on you for trying to introduce humor in this thread. (I bet your shipmates would be proud, huh?)

Dont forget!!! god bless America folks, If the girl was in Iran, she would be the one on trial and put to death!!!

Effin so called boyscscout marines should have been stood before the man himself and put into military prison. DISGUSTING....
SO! How does everyone feel, knowing if martial law is ever imposed, this is amongst our greatest fears form our protectors?

As sick as this is, our society encourages this. Many models are around this age. Our society makes being a whore acceptable- the images are everywhere you turn- music videos, magazines, billboards, television in general. The line from 'The Devil's Advocate' is so true:

"Let me give you a little inside information about God. God likes to watch. He's a prankster. Think about it. He gives man instincts. He gives you this extraordinary gift, and then what does He do, I swear for His own amusement, his own private, cosmic gag reel, He sets the rules in opposition. It's the goof of all time. Look but don't touch. Touch, but don't taste. Taste, don't swallow. Ahaha. And while you're jumpin' from one foot to the next, what is he doing? He's laughin' His sick, #in' ass off! He's a tight-ass! He's a SADIST! He's an absentee landlord! Worship that? NEVER!"

Again, everything about this is sick and wrong, and the woman that was taking this young girl to the parties in the first place should get the worst punishment; we should be protecting our children.

Originally posted by visible_villain
reply to post by ModernAcademia

 

Marines ... not the sharpest tools in the shed ...

I hope you can back that up with facts. They give/gave their lives so you can sit there freely and write something like that.

I'll stop there, don't want to give the MOD's something to delete.

mikerussellus, an angry vet.

edit:

I've read the later posts, I'll forgive you because you were Navy. Next time I'll use smaller words and type slower so you can read them better.
Don't get me wrong, my brother was in the Navy and we still talk to him, sometimes. . .

[edit on 25-7-2009 by mikerussellus]

I think a little military humor can be used in this thread because all of us who have been in the military know how harshly a crime like this will be dealt with. All joke's aside it would be worse for these guys if they had to spend time with their unit before getting sent to the jail. I have seen what happens to people who can't make it or don't live up to the military's standards. The military will make a break person.

[edit on 25-7-2009 by Styki]

Self control.....is dead? why not hire a hooker?.....what kind of mental marine are you, the parents is not to be blame, they trust the marines....Why should they be blame, marines are payed to protect citizens right?.

reply to post by tengkorak


The parents are to blame. What kind of parent allows their 12 year old daughter to be befriended by a 33 year old woman to the point of taking her to hotel parties with men ?! You can trust the military all you want when it comes to defending your country, but you certainly don't trust them with your children simply because they are in the military.

I hate to break up the party as I really hate to be the voice of reason

There is A LOT of information missing from the original article, yet it is written with plenty of keywords to get an emotional response from the reader.

The article says the girl told investigators this and that, but did anyone notice there is no mention of an actual complaint? Did anyone else notice that the article tells us the Marines are charged with rape, it tells us the Marines had sex with the girl, but it does not say if an actual rape by force occurred. How do we know that the girl was not willing to have sex with these men, lied about her age, but they are being charged with rape because of her age?

Be careful with what you read before you form an opinion. Just the other day I read an article where a 12 year old boy was tazed multiple times by police. What the article DID NOT tell you (as I found out from a friend who works for the department) that this 12 year old boy is actually 6' 2" tall, 200+ pounds and just happen to be beating the crap out of a female police officer prior to being tazed and has a history of violence, yet the article only mentions a 12 year old boy was tazed.

How is this the parents fault? Do you know every single person your child may be hanging out with? The fact is as kids get older, you have to give them room. They go out to hang with their friends. All you can do is hope you taught them right from wrong and that they make good decisions. You will not know every single move your kid makes every single minute of the day. The article does not say that the parents actually KNEW what was going on, it just says they are charged and they are charged for allowing the girl to hang out with the 30 something year old women.

And this is what these guys did state-side? I'd hate to see what they'd do in-theater. Maybe they were just getting warmed up.

[edit on 25-7-2009 by harrytuttle]

I only wonder after reading the story if it is realy true .. why should you have sex with a minor and put your career at the line.
the thing what is hapening often is that you girls after going out with a couple of people get into a fight or argument and then claim they have been raped .. and later on after inspection of the girl she didn't had sex.
but the guys are later on tanted for life and have no life any more due to this incident.
so before going to argue oh that sad little girl she was raped wait before there is proof of it instead of believing the story because the 12 year old said so.
many 12 year olds have sex with people and if they regret it they will say they were raped even after they said they wanted it in the first place.
but if its true she is raped then yes the penalty for the rapist have to be high and they have to be punished ..
but only if it is true and facts and fiction are separeted.

reply to post by MrWendal


There are always points left out. However, rape by force may not be required. Statutory rape exists when the minor is not of the age of consent. In many jurisdictions, that the minor 'looked' old enough, or 'lied' does not matter. The adult is the burdened party.

reply to post by MrWendal

There is A LOT of information missing from the original article, yet it is written with plenty of keywords to get an emotional response from the reader.

Yes i did notice that when i first read the article. I also noticed where it said that the little girl told the investigators that she " had sex with the marines", not that she accused them of rape. However because of the girl's age they have to charge them with rape as in most, if not all, states an adult having sex with a child of that age is legally rape. As far as if she lied about her age, i would have to say it's still the fault of the men involved for not making sure that she was of legal age. It's not that hard to do, in most states when a girl is of legal age ahe has a drivers licence or state ID.

How is this the parents fault?

The parents are at fault here because they allowed their 12 year old daughter to hang out with a 33 year old woman over a period of several months, either with or without knowing what was going on. I'd be mighty suspicious of a 33 year old person that wanted to hang out with my 12 year old child and damn sure wouldn't allow it.

Do you know every single person your child may be hanging out with?

You'd better believe i did when they were 12 years old. I always made it a point to know who all my son's friends were, and attempted to get to know them well so i knew what kind of kids they were associating with, it's called parenting. As a matter of fact even when my boys were 17 and up i still knew just about everyone they hung around with as they were all usually at our house.

I'm sorry but IMHO there is no excuse for a parent allowing their 12 year old child to hang around with a 33 year old other than poor parenting skills.

The fact is as kids get older, you have to give them room. They go out to hang with their friends. All you can do is hope you taught them right from wrong and that they make good decisions.

This is true, however at the age of 12 the amount of fredom this girl was given was way too much. Puberty is a time when kids really need parents to be actively observing what's going on with their children, not allowing them to run off with adults almost 3 times their age to god knows where to do god knows what. This also was not a one time thing, this went on for several months the parents were definately neglegent.

Hi/

And we wonder what really is considered news worthy to be called 'news'.

I know that this ARTICLE ABOUT MARINES is not the same, but it seems that this sort of thing has been happening a long time!



Edit to add

Kay Griggs, wife of colonel George Griggs, USMC (retired USMC Commandant): 29th Commandant of the Marine Corps, found ... all » her husband's diary, which contains details of homosexual blackmail in the top ranks of the US Marine Corps and names leading politicians and military leaders. Kay Griggs's information about the US government also comes from observations and people she met. She exposes initiation rituals, the raping of young men and blackmail and murders to keep people quiet. Much of this, according to Griggs, is related to secret society activity and she names figures like Henry Kissinger and a string of other top government individuals..
Google search because many of the videos have been deleted`

...
ICXC NIKA
helen

[edit on 7/25/2009 by helen670]

reply to post by helen670


There a couple of little problems with this what you posted, Helen.

1) The Commandant hasn't been a Colonel since the 1800's
2) There has never been a Commandant named Griggs.
3) General Gray was the 29th Commandant.

reply to post by Viking04


Hi/
I must realy be that tired!
It was suppose to be a link to an interview about marines?
Kay Griggs was a woman who found her husbands diary?
hmm,
I did a search on ATS and the links came up...
I actually watched a video on it last night..but now the link does not work and my computer is slowwwww..


ICXC NIKA
helen

I would say the Marines didnt do it. It was their programmed other personalities who comitted the crimes and those are fine Marines, they were just "turned on" by a sound or a phone call to do these things.
The original person does not know what they are doing when this happens. Suppposedly, there are at least 10 million right here in the USA programmed with many multiple personalities, and they are capable of the most horrific thing.
While the original person is just a normal, ordinary person.
Its an MKULTRA Projec- Project BlueBird.

reply to post by chise61

Yes i did notice that when i first read the article. I also noticed where it said that the little girl told the investigators that she " had sex with the marines", not that she accused them of rape. However because of the girl's age they have to charge them with rape as in most, if not all, states an adult having sex with a child of that age is legally rape. As far as if she lied about her age, i would have to say it's still the fault of the men involved for not making sure that she was of legal age. It's not that hard to do, in most states when a girl is of legal age ahe has a drivers licence or state ID.

We are talking about 18 and 19 year old males. Having been one myself at one point in time, I can honestly say never did it occur to me to ask a girl who wanted to sleep with me for ID. These are guy who were at a party and partying with a women who was 33. In my eyes it is not too much different than a 21 year old man hanging out at a bar, meeting a girl then later finding out she was 15. At some point he has a right to expectation and I certainly wouldnt be expecting a 33 year old to bring a 12 year old to a party.

The parents are at fault here because they allowed their 12 year old daughter to hang out with a 33 year old woman over a period of several months, either with or without knowing what was going on. I'd be mighty suspicious of a 33 year old person that wanted to hang out with my 12 year old child and damn sure wouldn't allow it.

I too would be very suspicious of a 33 year old hanging out with my 12 year old child and I also would not allow it, again though... what if they did not know? You can not act on something you know nothing about. I am not saying the parents are right or wrong, but I am saying the article does not provide enough information to judge these parents.

You'd better believe i did when they were 12 years old. I always made it a point to know who all my son's friends were, and attempted to get to know them well so i knew what kind of kids they were associating with, it's called parenting. As a matter of fact even when my boys were 17 and up i still knew just about everyone they hung around with as they were all usually at our house.

Sadly not all parents are like that and not all kids allow that. I was not one of those kids that had my friends come to my house. I went to theirs. My mother did not know who all my friends were, cause in my brilliant opinion at the time, it was not her business. Again, everyone is casting a lot of judgment without knowing any details.

I'm sorry but IMHO there is no excuse for a parent allowing their 12 year old child to hang around with a 33 year old other than poor parenting skills.

Agreed, but is it a matter of parenting skills if you have no knowledge?

This is true, however at the age of 12 the amount of fredom this girl was given was way too much. Puberty is a time when kids really need parents to be actively observing what's going on with their children, not allowing them to run off with adults almost 3 times their age to god knows where to do god knows what. This also was not a one time thing, this went on for several months the parents were definately neglegent.

How can you call the parents negligent without knowing all the facts? Would they be negligent if they both worked and had jobs and had no choice but to trust in their child to make good decisions? I grew up in a single parent home, someone had to pay the bills so you can believe that I had plenty of unsupervised time as a kid at the age of 12... would that make my mother negligent as well? Do you have any idea how many kids come home from school to an empty house? They used to be called "Latch Key Kids". There could be any number of circumstances that lead to the situation we see being reported, however I certainly can not pass judgment on anyone without knowing more facts.

All anyone can see is "12 year old girl"... but I can tell you from experience.. not all 12 year old girls look 12 anymore. There is simply not enough information provided to base any educated opinion on the subject.



[edit on 25-7-2009 by MrWendal]

reply to post by MrWendal

We are talking about 18 and 19 year old males. Having been one myself at one point in time, I can honestly say never did it occur to me to ask a girl who wanted to sleep with me for ID. These are guy who were at a party and partying with a women who was 33. In my eyes it is not too much different than a 21 year old man hanging out at a bar, meeting a girl then later finding out she was 15. At some point he has a right to expectation and I certainly wouldnt be expecting a 33 year old to bring a 12 year old to a party.

I can see where it wouldn't cross a young man's mind to ask for ID, however i believe it's commonly known that some of today's young girls seem to be sexually active at a very young age and are known to lie about their age. When my boys were teens i started noticing that the girls were psyically maturing much faster, so as wierd as it may sound to you i made it a point to tell them that if they didn't know the girl personally they had better see some ID and make darn sure she wasn't under age. I've seen a lot of 12 year old girls that psyically look as if they're 15-16 (although you can usually tell by their faces that they are younger than this) and i understand how a young man could let himself be fooled, but ultimately by law he is responsible for his actions.

Perhaps what we need to do is to create a law that holds these young girls that lie about their age to entice men into breaking the law accountable for their actions also.

I too would be very suspicious of a 33 year old hanging out with my 12 year old child and I also would not allow it, again though... what if they did not know? You can not act on something you know nothing about. I am not saying the parents are right or wrong, but I am saying the article does not provide enough information to judge these parents.

You are right about the article not providing enough information. However we are not discussing a one time incident, this continued for several months. I can think of no reason that the parents were unaware of their 12 year old child accompanying an adult to parties repeatedly for several months. The problem is that there are far too many parents that are too lax in their parental resposibilities, i see far too much of it everyday in my nieghborhood.

Sadly not all parents are like that and not all kids allow that.

Not all kids allow that ???? I'm sorry but it's what the parents allow, not the children, children are in no position to tell their parents what is or isn't allowed that's a parent's job

I was not one of those kids that had my friends come to my house. I went to theirs. My mother did not know who all my friends were, cause in my brilliant opinion at the time, it was not her business. Again, everyone is casting a lot of judgment without knowing any details.

The only judgement being cast is the fact that it is a parent's job to raise their childern. Part of that job includes making every effort to know who your children are associating with. And making sure that they are not associating with anyone that may seek to harm them, or be a harmful influence on them.

Agreed, but is it a matter of parenting skills if you have no knowledge?

I believe it is when the child in question is only 12 years old.

Would they be negligent if they both worked and had jobs and had no choice but to trust in their child to make good decisions?

There are many programs out there today to help working parents. There are after school programs, park district programs, etc. They could have asked for help from family, friends, etc. Being that both parents are there it would be much easier than it is for single parents, it would be as simple as each of them working different shifts so that one of them was always home with the child.

I grew up in a single parent home, someone had to pay the bills so you can believe that I had plenty of unsupervised time as a kid at the age of 12... would that make my mother negligent as well? Do you have any idea how many kids come home from school to an empty house? They used to be called "Latch Key Kids".

As a matter of fact i do, i was one of them, i was also a single parent and raised two sons by myself. So believe me i truely understand how hard it is to raise children, especially as a single parent. I engaged the help of my mother, cousin, friends to pick my sons up after school and give them a safe supervised place to stay until i came home from work. Most days they went home with a friend until my mother got out of work to pick them up and watch them until i got home from work. My boys clearly understood that anytime they had to be home alone while i was working they were to stay inside and no visitors allowed. Sometimes you just have to be tough with your kids and impose strict discipline. I was lucky to have good sons that never really gave me any trouble and have grown into fine men, one is a member here, but i do understand how hard it is to raise children.

I agree that not many 12 year old girls look 12 anymore and that is a big part of the problem. I also agree that there is not enough information to know exactly what happened in this case, however there is enough information to know that the parents hold a good part of the responsibility. We can not simply lay all of the blame on the young men that did this, nor the girl, too many parents today are not taking their jobs as parents as seriously as they should be.