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Megalith moving experiments

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posted on Jul, 23 2009 @ 09:40 AM
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There have been over 2 dozen megalith moving experiments done to explain how ancient megaliths were moved and installed. Most of them were just for moving the megaliths but some were also for erecting them. These have been reported mostly as isolated incidents without an effort to organize information gathered from them. There is a list of these experiments here. Most of these experiments were under 10 tons but a couple of them were over 10 tons. This includes one of an effort to moved a 12 tone megalith that failed due to bad planing and a couple more efforts to move a 25 ton megalith and a 40 ton megalith that had some degree of sucess. However at a close look it may not be as good as it appears since they neglected to mention how they got the megalith on the sledge in the first place. Most of the experiments simply ignore this inconvenient fact, there are a couple exceptions including some for the ones 10 tons or below that did use levers to lift them onto sledges or erect them. Most of these were actualy done in the 19th century when they weren't thinking about doing this as an experiment. One of them organized by Jo Anne Van Tilburg actualy shows them lifting the megalith onto the sledge with a crane if you go directly to the video. Which means they cheated. The 25 ton experiment neglects to say anything about how they got it on the sledge which almost certainly means they cheated. Why else would they omit it since it would have involved an enormous effort. The 25 ton experiment only moved the megalith 10 to 20 feet with an enormous effort and many problems with broken ropes. This implies that if it was done this way they would have to have had an enormous rope building system to constantly replace ropes. I didn't look at the video just the web site of the 40 ton effort but I think they only barely budged it.

Additional experiments were done to erect obelisks with limited sucess when they tried with anything over 10 tons. They succeeded in erecting one in Massachusetts after several failed attempts. It is important to note that most of the prep work involved using modern equipment. most of it could be erected with ancient technology with enough time and determination but I'm not so sure about towing the 25 ton obelisk up the ramp. They didn't lift the obelisk they lowered it by removing sand under it. Similar experiments have been done sucessfully under 10 tons and an effort was made with the 40 ton megalith at Stonehenge. Once again I just read the text but it doesn't sound convincing.

One thing that is mostly over looked is the megalithic burial vaults. It is unclear whether they had much clearence to install these vaults or how they lowered them. the subject is mostly ignored so it is hard to check facts. I think one of them had a clearence of less than an inch and I'm not sure how they were able to lower them with ancient technology. This may have involved sliding it in straight in order to get it in place which would be extremely difficult with a vault that may have weighed over 100 ton.

This seems to imply a major unexplained mystery. The skeptics how tried to prove that it could be done with ancient technology seem to have provided evidence of the oposite. In order to move anything over 10 tons they needed an enormous effort and they had to cheat to. Moving anything over 40 tons wasn't done at all. Yet the biggest ones moved in ancient times were over 700 tons including the colossi of Memnon which were moved over 400 miles. Dozens of them over 100 tons in over a dozen countries around the world. Some of these are listed here.

This implies a major unsolved mystery but I wouldn't rush on the ancient astronaut theory bandwagon without a lot of fact checking. They seem to have made even more mistakes than the skeptics.




posted on Jul, 23 2009 @ 09:47 AM
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Very interesting thread
Since I do not have to much knowledge about that I will refrain from commenting to much for now and sit back and have the more knowledgeable people take a bite at this


For me the case is simple , we have no idea how those were build and personally I think we had outside help


S&F



posted on Jul, 23 2009 @ 11:20 AM
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From what I seen most of these teams try to move the stones a few feet. If they can move a few feet they say they can move any distance.

I visited Machu Picchu many years ago. There were several 40 ton stones that were moved up to 30 miles from the quarry they were cut from.

So what!

This stone was moved thirty plus miles up and down mountains. During the moving process this stone would of moved up and down three mountain ranges with the elevations changing 6000+ feet several times. The final resting place of this 40 ton stone was at a mountain top with a 65 to 80 degree incline from the base, several thousand feet below.

For many preceding years, groups of people have tried to move a 40 ton stone, including the Army corp of engineers up a slight incline.

As of 2003 my last trip, no one has moved it one inch.



posted on Jul, 23 2009 @ 11:51 AM
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I have always been fascinated by the megaliths and would love to read some informed members posts on this subject.

One of the biggest ancient stones which I have read about is the stone at Ba'albeck which is massive.

Due to the lack of evidence for moving such objects by ancinent means alone, I wonder if there is lost knowledge of engineering or mathematics which they used, or whether we had 'outside help'. However, the latter suggestion creates more questiosn than answers, as the OP states.

I've heard of levitation as one means, through sound waves emmitted at a certain frequency. This sounds bizarre, but if our more conventional methods of transportation are failing, why dont we at least try?

It's definately something which should be invested in, maybe it can enlighten us further in our quest for knowledge.



posted on Jul, 23 2009 @ 11:57 AM
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Here you go, here's what one man can do. A crew could do more. Levers and pivot points can do wonders. Size doesn't matter, but technique does.



[edit on 7/23/2009 by Phage]



posted on Jul, 23 2009 @ 01:59 PM
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I remember a show; I believe it was on the History Channel that showed that there were holes in some of the megalith blocks that could have been used for a rope to go through in order to be picked up by an archaic crane. If they knew about levers, weights and counter weights, this should not be an impossible thing to imagine. It wouldn’t be like a modern day crane, but it could function kind of like one.



posted on Jul, 23 2009 @ 02:04 PM
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One of the more curious of the megalith moving techniques was supposedly employed by the residents of Easter Island, who carved and moved their large figures upright by slowly "walking" them from side to side like you would move a refrigerator. It would take some super organization to control them just enough to do that, but if you practice for a couple hundred years, I guess you pretty much get the technique down.



posted on Jul, 24 2009 @ 12:06 AM
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reply to post by Phage
 


Thanks for the vid Phage!

I have a couple of questions though.

With the pivoting of the slabs on top of small stones, it seems the surface he is doing it on solid like concrete or something, would this method still work in the dirt, or sand, or in mud (England gets wet all year so I imagine the rocks would have gotten stuck in the mud using this method)

Also it never answers the question of how the hell do they get similar size slabs on top of the ones in the ground ?

It answers the question of getting the slabs upright for sure but it unfortunately leaves questions still remaining!



posted on Jul, 24 2009 @ 12:33 AM
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reply to post by Discotech
 

It doesn't matter what the surface is, as long as it is flat. The house he moved was not on concrete. Get a pivot under the center of gravity you can move it however you wish. A wide rock (or a "raft" of logs) on a soft surface will distribute the weight.

The video does show how the slabs could be lifted. By driving wedges under them, blocking it, driving another wedge, blocking it.

I don't know if this is how it was done but he has certainly done it, he's moved some massive stuff singlehandedly. It doesn't require magic and it doesn't require high tech.



posted on Jul, 24 2009 @ 12:40 AM
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reply to post by Phage
 


Ok I'll accept the whole pivoting on soft ground thing.

However he's only showed how to get a slab erect, which he did by using a See-Saw effect, now when you have 2 slabs either side how is he going to see-saw the top slab to raise it when the slabs are blocking ? Not to mention the slabs are around 15ft tall, would the angle not get greater the higher it is lifted and ultimately end up with the slab falling off the see-saw before it reaches the height required to slide (I presume they'd have to slide it on ?) it on top of the 2 standing upright ?



posted on Jul, 24 2009 @ 12:54 AM
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reply to post by Discotech
 

Lifting it doesn't require a seesaw. Make an earthen ramp against one of the standing stones. Make a pile of dirt between the stones. Slide the top stone up the ramp and across the dirt pile to the other standing stone then take the dirt away.

It could happen.



posted on Jul, 24 2009 @ 01:02 AM
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reply to post by Phage
 


So then getting the pillars upright doesn't need a see-saw as the same method of the slope could be applied, however would likely require more effort.

Still there's the question of when you come to very steep slopes like mountains, I seriously doubt the little rock pivot method would very well with getting a 40+ tonne megalith up a steep incline akin to the mountains of Machu Pichu



posted on Jul, 24 2009 @ 01:45 AM
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reply to post by Discotech
 


I believe the stones at Machu Picchu originated at Machu Picchu. Am I wrong about that? I know much of the construction involves existing formations which were worked and added to by the Inca. The intihuatana there is certainly such a case.




posted on Jul, 24 2009 @ 05:35 AM
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the technique is relatively the same because the physics is the same 10000 years or 5000 years ago

the difference is in the way they "THINK" and view the world

culture is very distinctive of the resulting structure

link to the W.T. Wallington's web site :

www.theforgottentechnology.com...



posted on Jul, 24 2009 @ 04:47 PM
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It is quite odd when you think that there were multiple civilizations that had the motivation and technology to move these things, yet there is little to no information on how ANY of them did it. You'd think it would have been something they were proud of, and would want the method of how it was done to be well documented... guess not!



posted on Jul, 25 2009 @ 09:44 AM
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reply to post by Thill
 


It is commonly believed that we had outside "help" by many people however this implies that the help was benificial. I don't think this is true assuming it is the result of outside help, which hasn't been confirmed conclusively. If there was outside help that was intended to be benificial they would have started by opening a line of comunication. They wouldn't have influenced the movement of megaliths wich has no beneficial purpoe. If they wanted to help a more primitive society they would have started with simple things that the primitive society could benifit from like the basicss and they would have stayed in touch.



posted on Jul, 25 2009 @ 09:47 AM
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reply to post by extr5
 


I have heard that the stones from sacsayhuaman were transported from long distances although the detail were vague but this is the first time I heard the stones from Machu Pichu were transported long distances. Do you know how they came to the conclusion that the quary was 30 mile away? I had peviosly assumed that they were from nearby. If you have a credible source it would be helpful thanks.



posted on Jul, 25 2009 @ 09:55 AM
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reply to post by Phage
 


Wally Wallingtons experiments are notable but they involve a lot of planning and they require certain conditions that weren't replicated in most ancient place. Also the prep work wasn't entirely limited to ancient technology. If it worked so well they could have done it with larger stones. Roger Hopkins tried similar experiment on a concrete base but when he moved on to larger megaliths 25 or 40 tons he didn't have nearly as much sucess. Wally Wallingtons experiments look good but they don't hold up when you look at them close especialy if you think they explain an enormous volume of megaliths weighing up to at leat 700 tons.

I have never seen a full enventory of how many megaliths but I have concluded that there are over 100 megaliths around the world over 100 tons moved half of which are in Egypt, over 1,000 megaliths over 50 tons, tens of thousands over 10 tons and millions of multi-ton stones. The pyramid of Khufu alone includes over 2 million megaliths. there must have been dozens of millions of megaliths over 2 tons moved around the world.

With all these megaliths by so many different cultures in some cases that have evolved totaly seperately there isn't going to be such an easy answer.



posted on Jul, 25 2009 @ 09:58 AM
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reply to post by AlienCarnage
 


The show you saw was almost certainly about Greek or Roman megaliths they both used primitive cranes but they weren't able to handle large weights more than 6 or 7 tons I think. I may have seen one source that says they could lift 20 tons each but I'm not sure this source was reliable. They may have been able to increase the amount they could lift by combining multiple cranes. Angkor also had holes in the megaliths that might have been used by primitive pulleys or levers but they were not the heaviest. the Angkors moved a large volume of stone a long ditance but the biggest ones weren't much over 10 tons as far as I know. The biggest mystery about Angkor is how they did such a large volume of carving in such a short time.



posted on Jul, 25 2009 @ 10:02 AM
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reply to post by Nohup
 


The walking experiments had to be stopped because they were too unstable. These weren't done with megaliths over 10 tons and for the most part people who have looked into it don't think this is the most likely explanation. Other experiments were more sucessful including some erecting Moai on easter Island but no more than 10 tons except for the 25 and 40 ton experiments I mentioned earlier in England (40 ton) and Mass (25 ton), both of these were done with Roger Hopkins.



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