Something from Nothing

It is beyond the realms of our thoughts and concepts that something can always be there without creation in the first place, so I tend not to wonder the why's and how's because it's too much of a brain # trying to understand the concept that it was always there. Much like the view of God being eternal, in our current concepts surely something had to make him and in turn make the thing that made God, it's just too difficult to try and make sense of even if you are good at thinking "outside of the box"

Originally posted by Discotech
It is beyond the realms of our thoughts and concepts that something can always be there without creation in the first place, so I tend not to wonder the why's and how's because it's too much of a brain # trying to understand the concept that it was always there. Much like the view of God being eternal, in our current concepts surely something had to make him and in turn make the thing that made God, it's just too difficult to try and make sense of even if you are good at thinking "outside of the box"

Hehehe. You are right about that. Its a big thought without question. And we will never find out the true answers. Because we are finite beings who only live for a short time. When we die our thoughts die with us and the next ones in line will ponder the same thoughts we had all over again.

reply to post by Conclusion


The space inside a jar is 'nothing', but it has a use, so it gives you 'something'. A sneaky example!

Originally posted by Conclusion
Hello. This is my first thread and I thought about what topic that I could learn from.

This is not a thread to explain something. I am looking for answers and there seems to be a lot of bright, free thinking, individuals on here who might be able to spread some light on the subject.

The question is this. How do you get something from nothing?

I have pondered this question countless times and have come to the conclusion that without a maker nothing can be made.

I am interested in your thoughts on the subject. Thank you for taking the time to answer.

This is a never ending argument or a very long one.

If I was to say the universe just existed and will exist forever that can be seen as avoiding the question instead of saying I honestly do not know. Some people would simply say that I am not wrapping my head around that which to me is the same as suspending thought for a second.

If I was to say that god created the universe then people would say show me proof. If I said look in the mirror then they would say that is not god.
Both are beliefs and its up to each individual what to think.

This will never end until the universe either ends or never ends. Hence if it is a never ending argument it will be just that or it will be a very long argument as it has been so far.

Quite funny though because there is only going to be one winner if you think about it, if the universe ends at least someone can say "see, told you" as it is happening but the opposition will never get that chance as it will never end. (joke)



[edit on 15-7-2009 by XXXN3O]

Listen to John Frusciante's The Empyrean.

Then you'll understand that everything we need is inside us.

Everything is eternal
Nothingness does no exist
No thing has ever become nothing
And nothing has never become something
What is has always been and will always be

i believe, due to the fact that we are finding this to be a holographic universe (youtube it), that we are literally inside gods consciousness. almost like a dream state in our understanding. there is no "outside" the creators consciousness because his consciousness is all there is. and i believe this is how we are all pieced together with the string theory. we are all bound by the god force. it was explained well in a book. take a beach ball, place legos and such all over it then turn it inside out. vuala!!

simple eh?

Something can be made of nothing. The universe was made but not of nothing. Something was there it was everything squished into something smaller than an atom. I do NOT believe in any religion because it is obviously fake. No offense but lead your own life don't let some fictional being just like santa lead it for you. If i told you there was an invisible elephant right in front of you it could answer your prayers see you at all times and everything and i wrote a book about it. You cant touch it see it or hear it. Would you believe me? Of course you wouldn't because obviously it wasn't true just like religion. Its full of nothing but stories.

It's a hard question.

One thing is, we have to consider the tool we are using in relation to the question.

We only understand things in a world in which time moves only forward, space is 3-dimensional, and so on.

But the universe as we see it is not the only game in town.

If we could experience the universe as it appears in black hole, we probably would find it easier to contemplate radically different perspectives on existence (although 'experiencing' it is probably impossible, as we understand the term, as it implies comparing kinda linear instances of time, and time is... messy?? at the center of a black hole)

Ditto in the world of the very small -- it's a different ball game at the quantum level. The 3d+time framework we are used to doesn't seem to apply there. But that whole conversation is above my pay-scale -- some other physics hot-shot might go into detail on that.

In any case... we aren't particularly good at imagining such things as you describe: just because our frame of reference is so limited. This is why Buddhists et al practise ignoring the chatter of the mind. They recognise the limitations of conscious thought... and those limitations are illustrated PERFECTLY by your example



Read Alan Watts and Wei Wu Wei

You can't get something from nothing- Its impossible
As something has to be there to create another-
Thats why the big bang isnt a good theory- as the big bang needed something to create itself from-
And so would that thing aswell need something to even make the BANG
There are no REAL answer as this - Because u can bring into factor that nothin is real and its all ur head and how u decide to recieve and program the information you get into REALITY-
So then again-
If that was tru- then If I believed (To the MOST EXTREME EXTENT) that something was there- then it is.....

reply to post by Conclusion


You post a thread about nothing, like this one and voila, "Something From Nothing".

Just kidding

OP im not sure if you are confused about the science behind the beginning of the universe.

"something out of nothing" tend to be a creationist phrase to argue against noncreationists.

the only problem is that creationism is the only thing that implies something from nothing.

if god created the universe, then there was something from nothing

science however does not really address THE beginning (of everything).

basically, they dont even try to predict anything before the big bang because there is no information to work with.

so something from nothing really only works with creation theories.

the universe as we know it was not created from nothing, but came to be how it is through the big bang. my belief is that the universe has always existed in one way or another, constantly expanding then contracting eternally.

but thats just me.


hope my input helps any

Most are unable to Grasp that Nothing is actually Something !

You can't have Nothing if there isn't anywhere to have Nothing !

You have to have somewhere for Nothing to exist or it can't or can it ???

We often say Nothing is there, or I see Nothing there, or there is Nothing on the Page.

You see we Recognise "Nothing" usually by our senses. Usually by sight, hearing, Smell or Thought....

I hear Nothing, do You ??? LOL...

How do we Hear Nothing ??? By expressing an absence of Sound !
So we hear Nothing ! Yet some, Deny the existence of Nothing !

Strange isn't it ??? Very, Very, Strange indeed !!!

So you see Nothing actually exists..

It exists as a Concept and as a Manifest Component of our World and is Recognised or the word "Nothing" would exist and we would Not have this Thread.... LOL.

The "Nothing" is in fact a Component even though it may be only Conceptual.

If we were able to produce a Pure Vacuum, we would say Nothing is In the Vessel, but in saying this, we Conveniently put the vessel aside ????

Now Lets consider that True Vacuum... Actually the "Nothing" inside the Vessel, has Dimension or Volume.

So we could say This Nothing can and does have 3D or shape to it...

The Shape and Volume, is determined by its Boundaries, whether Conceptual or Manifest, in some way.

All things That exist Conceptually or Manifest, have both an "Inner" and "Outer".

In the case of The Vacuum The "Inner" is The Nothing or Vacuum and The Vessel is The "Outer" Component.

We also have The "Inner" of The "Inner" and The "Inner" of The "Outer" !

And The "Outer" of The "Inner" and The "Outer" of The "Outer" !

Think about it ???

Draw a Circle using a thick felt and see for yourself ???

Yes it's all a bit of a Fickle isn't it ??? LOL..

And If we consider the Centre of say a Circle; "Nothing" exists at it's Centre, Not even Volume or Shape.

But All exists between the "Centre" and its "Outer" (Boundaries)

Yet the Centre Still exists and is Nothing or is it ???

We could say the Origin of something is Nothing !

As it was its Centre ???

So "Nothing" is "Something" After all !


[edit on 16-7-2009 by The Matrix Traveller]

reply to post by eniac


Good answer.

reply to post by The Matrix Traveller


Hmmm. That is a different way to think about it. Thx

I did write my response above with one assumption in mind.

You do know that there is only one person who gives everyone something for nothing?

Which in a way is the same as something from nothing if you do not know what this man gave you or who he was.



[edit on 16-7-2009 by XXXN3O]

Here is something for you all to ponder!

Is a thought not something from nothing ?

reply to post by Discotech


That is a good question. I don't know. where would a thought come from? It is hard for me to believe that the chemicals in the brain can produce a thought, but when people take drugs sometimes they see things that are not there or act in an unusual manner. So maybe thoughts are chemically induced, but like i said, that is hard for me to believe.

reply to post by XXXN3O


I am not sure who you speak of but i think i have an idea. Who do you speak of?

Originally posted by Conclusion
reply to post by Discotech

 

That is a good question. I don't know. where would a thought come from? It is hard for me to believe that the chemicals in the brain can produce a thought, but when people take drugs sometimes they see things that are not there or act in an unusual manner. So maybe thoughts are chemically induced, but like i said, that is hard for me to believe.

Perhaps Thought comes from Inspiration that is the Motivation of The Mind !

Other words for the Mind, include Consciousness, Awareness, Life.

Perhaps the Brain is only a "Decoder/Encoder" between the Mind (Life, or Awareness, or Consciousness) and the Experience ie the body and the universe it is a part of.

The Mind Observes the Program but the Universe including the species in it are the Observed ???

But can the body observe the Mind or Self Conscious Entity ???

I know, or are at least aware of my body, but is my body aware of Me ???

Hmmmm Food for thought ???

I guess so !

[edit on 16-7-2009 by The Matrix Traveller]

Bad hypothesis is simply the lack of knowledge. Unfortunately humanity has a ways to go before being able to ask this question in a meaningful way.

/begin_hypothesis

But, I'll add my bad hypothesis to the pile. You can create something from nothing. You do so by creating opposites. Matter, Antimatter. The Light, the dark. Our solar system and galaxies spin due to an unknown force but I would imagine it is similar to the bands of a hurricane. Something is spinning it ALL. In the case of the hurricane it is the planet. The reason we don't understand is the same reason we saw our planet as the centre of our solar system, perspective. The reason galaxies are accelerating away from one another? They are being spun away is my guess. Where we supposedly exploded from is the center of the spin. Also, at the center of our Galaxies are great black holes, supposedly. Division, opposites. Something from nothing.

I would also imagine our universe isn't as finite as some would think even though it in of itself is beyond the comprehension of man. The reason we are aware of the part we know is that this light has had time to reach us here on our blue marble. I would imagine that in the future man will look back and realize how childlike we are in this time. I wonder if man will every realize that while here he is forever childlike. We always only see some small part and think it is an absolute.

/end_hypothesis