Something from Nothing

reply to post by genius/idoit


and one more abstract thought for you

what is a millisecond? now time is the most manipulateable and abstract thought of all!!

reply to post by wx4caster


Just where exactly does the (Only when observed fact) fall into the Laws. Is it the power of thought or have they tried to explain it at all. I find that very fascinating.

reply to post by wx4caster

That is all well and good but it if you are saying everything came from a spec of sand or marble or basketball sized piece of matter,where did that come from?I think I like your explanation that in an infinite universe the possibility's are infinite. but then I think I also like Conclusion's conclusion that it must be eternal as well.I believe our inability to quantify time properly may be the road block in this dilemma.

reply to post by wx4caster

an instant,a moment in time,immeasurable, perhaps relative.


[edit on 14-7-2009 by genius/idoit]

reply to post by genius/idoit


Nice Observation. I guess someone has to think about these things or then an answer will inevitably never come.

[edit on 14-7-2009 by Conclusion]

reply to post by genius/idoit


True. If there is infinite large then infinite small must be also.

reply to post by Conclusion

how can you find an answer without a question and can you have a question without an answer?Can you say what is that without there being a that?Can there be a that without someone/someting to ask what is that? HEAVY!

Originally posted by Conclusion
reply to post by wx4caster

 

Just where exactly does the (Only when observed fact) fall into the Laws. Is it the power of thought or have they tried to explain it at all. I find that very fascinating.

It means that in a system, there are only probabilities of locations and ranges of velocities, and that the particle is and or can be at all places at all velocities at once unless observed. Only when observed does it "settle" or define itself. Not to mentiion we can only know the speed or the location but not both at the same time

Originally posted by genius/idoit
reply to post by wx4caster

 

an instant,a moment in time,immeasurable, perhaps relative.


[edit on 14-7-2009 by genius/idoit]

with two frames of reference, one at rest the other in motion, there can be no defineable measurement of time across the two. err, as in this.

if you are object A and i am object B. You are moving at speed C, and i am at rest. With time dilation, you can observe a second within your frame of reference to be a second, but it may take me billions of years to observe that same "time frame" from my outside observation, where as i may observe my second within my frame of reference to be a second, and from your outside POV, you may see that time go by so fast it is unmeasurable to you, a true "instant"

reply to post by wx4caster


Hmm. Now that is a ponderer. Cant know speed and location? Only settles when Observed? If no one is observing how do they know? Or is it just a theory and no data has been taken of it?

reply to post by wx4caster


Are you a scientist, or just very informed?

Originally posted by suomichris

Originally posted by Conclusion
reply to post by suomichris

 

But according to scientific theory it was made in the big bang.

No, see, you have your thinking wrong here. This isn't the way scientists think about it. The universe wasn't "made" in the big bang, the universe arose out of the big bang. I know it sounds like I'm playing semantics, but I'm really not...........

But the energy for the big bang had to come from somewhere. It could have came from another dimension or somewhere else but it had to come from somewhere.

[edit on 7/14/2009 by fixer1967]

reply to post by Conclusion


I am a meteorologist (this the name wx4caster lol stands for weather forecaster). I have had my fair share of physics and math classes, and so on.

The particle is not "created" through observation. it is only "defined". it is not really that crazy to think of. I have no idea where you are or how fast you are travelling at this moment. when i observe you i know where you are but if i know how fast you are tavelling i cannot be sure where you are...

See relativistic speeds (speed of light, or near there lol) makes objects act funny. Newtonian physics goes out the window and we must rely on a different set of mathematics to use as the language to describe what is going on.

It would be like asking an average kindergartner to write in his own words the description of the sisteen chapel. They would lack the vocabulary. (most would anyway... )

reply to post by wx4caster


So newtonian laws go out the window at a certain reference point. after that do we automatically switch to the law of relativity?

reply to post by wx4caster


So weather forcaster huh? Nice. Quick question. How does a hurricane gain momentum? Like, where does it get its energy?

reply to post by Conclusion


What created the maker?.. and what created that which created the maker.. and what created that which created that which created the maker.. and what created that which created that which created that which created that which created the maker?.... it is a continuous cycle..

To make you ponder even more though is this..

Imagine nothing.. no air, thoughts, colors, sights, sounds, emotions, gravity.. literally nothing... if you really think about it.. and I mean REALLY think about it.. well it can be a pretty devastating thought. The existence of what it was like before we were born.. forever.. with no memories.. no life.. no experience of love.. hatred.. nothing.

Stepping one step up from that, and back to your question, how can you get something from nothing?.. what really IS nothing? Like I asked above, really imagine nothing. It is devastating to think, yet can you really imagine nothing at all? What would define nothingness if not one thing, one aspect of anything, could be considered into it? Say you believe there is no life at all after death, once you are gone you are gone in every way possible.. how can that be defined? How can you possibly explain 'nothing'?

So how can something be made from nothing.. what is this something? Life from nothingness? Galaxies created from barren places in space? Life on lifeless worlds? A thought that pops up into your head? Something somewhere creates that first initial 'spark'.. but what created it? What created that which created it?... vicious circle all around, no matter where you try to escape.

Is this an act of a god? If so what created that god? Was always 'just there' right? How? What created the maker? How is it that a maker has always existed? There has to be a beginning and end to everything right?

Or... is everything one continuous loop... a broken record repeating itself over and over again.

Maybe, even with as evolved as a species we are.. we just aren't to that level of understanding yet. Who says we have to understand everything now?

Yet.. know this.. everything happens for a reason..

Why? How?.. that is the mystery of cause and effect for you. It may take a couple of times before we really 'get it', but in time we will understand.

As Einstein puts it... "The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and all science. He to whom this emotion is a stranger, who can no longer pause to wonder and stand rapt in awe, is as good as dead: his eyes are closed."

reply to post by wx4caster


You mentioned earlier that in a system there is only probabilities. Isn't that the same thing as saying that in a system their are maybe's, or am i wrong in that assumption.

well, it is hard to describe the strong/weak nuclear force, EM and gravity with just f=ma.

there are several bits and pecies out there, and while basic newtonian physics holds true in day to day life (as in if i jump off of a building i will soar to the earth accelerating at 9.81m/s until i hit the ground and depending on the distance i may or may not become mush). or a paper weight will remain on my desk until i move it...

here is the problem. how do you figure for a photon? a photon has a rest mass of zero. as in light has no mass... yet it can be affected by gravity and can be used to do work and so forth. that is where einstien describes the interchange between energy and matter. basically that energy is the same thing as matter and they are interchangeable at a certain ratio and can be quantified when one knows the mass and speed. the total energy of a mass is = to its mass times the speed of light squared

Originally posted by Conclusion
reply to post by wx4caster

 

So weather forcaster huh? Nice. Quick question. How does a hurricane gain momentum? Like, where does it get its energy?

latent heat... the warmer more moist air goes up and condenses releasing the energy and warming the air around it causing the air around it to be more warm and rise. it gets its spin from the spin of the earth. thats why they die over land. no hot water = no more hurricane... basically.

there are other things involved, there has to be an exhaust for all that air to escape and such, and sometimes the upper atmosphere can keep it from being organized initially...

reply to post by Dearheart


Now i like the way you think. Eternal is still a possibility. Maybe you are right about us not being ready to understand. I just hate not understanding....lol.