Wes Owsley discusses NASA and UFOs

Originally posted by zorgon
But seriously dood... cut and paste text into search

Thanks for the link.

Actually I do that a lot when I see things that aren't quoted as external sources that I want to research. But when I see a quote from an external source, I don't expect to have to go hunt for the source, and ATS seems to agree:

Source: www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by UK Wizard

Link to Source Goes Here

quote content

[ex] [/ex]

When to use: When using an external source such as an online Encyclopaedia or non ATSNN news sources.


Important Note: Always remember to put where you got your quote from, and remember to include the url of the source.
As this gives the proof that it is indeed a 'real' source and secondly it credits the owner of the source.

I see the April 1 date there, so NASA does have a sense of humor!

I find that especially fun to read because I'm one of those who doesn't think the "HAL", "I, robot" and "skynet" scenarios are impossible at some distant future date, but it will probably be decades at least, before people have to worry about that. We're not there yet though, thankfully.

Originally posted by wesowsley
Actually still here...as I mentioned before...my work requires near constant travel...and now that I am laptop-less (Thanks to TSA!) I can only post when I have the oppurtunity to catch up. (BTW TSA = Thousands Standing Around!)

To Arbitrageur: I would never rule anything out. My premise is that everyone is seeing something...no? What that something is...who knows. That is why I am researching this stuff.
So, my friends in Bulgaria have over 900 "UFO" reports on file just from Bulgaria's Black Sea Coast, just this for 2009. We are sure that increased US Military activity in the area (The US has formed a black sea fleet with its home port being the currently under construction Navy Homeport Varna) more than likely accounts for alot of the sightings. However, of those cases, some have trace evidence...evidence that is currently being studied. So, I don't discount anything.

Thanks very much for the reply Wes! Sorry to hear about your laptop? What did the TSA do, confiscate it? They have asked me to open up and turn on my laptop before, and I always wondered what would happen if the battery was dead, as it sometimes is, would they take it? Is that what happened? Just curious.

And yes I thought you were open minded about the UFO research, thanks for confirming that. That's a lot of UFO reports so with that many there should be at least a dozen or 2 really good ones in there. Good luck with those.

I'm also glad to see we didn't run you off and that you're still posting here, thanks for the contribution! I enjoy reading your posts.

Originally posted by zorgon
reply to post by jritzmann


BTW why can I not post a comment on your Paratopia?

It says..
"Your tokens have timed out. Reload the page to reset your tokens."

You mean I have to pay to post? Or are you blocking people... Heck I never even visited before

I think you're sucking another conspiracy out of your thumb...or smoking something. We have a message board. Ya post there. Right side nav. If ya can't find it I'm happy to draw a map for you.

Stay Loose!
~J

[edit on 22-9-2009 by jritzmann]

Originally posted by Arbitrageur
I see the April 1 date there, so NASA does have a sense of humor!

Better than yours They don't throw rule books at ya... Those guys are real clowns. I should make a thread about all the funny stuff NASA does

Here's the way it happened see?

History of the World Condensed Version 1.0 (needs a LOT of work )

In the beginning there was Tesla...
He invented Saucer Drives...
Rumor has it he had ET contact
WWII comes NAZI's snag Tesla Tech
They also contact Aldebaran and get help...
End of War they high tail it for Antarctica to get off world
NAZI's had first Moon Base according to a Russian
The Byrd chases them with a fleet...
Saucers buzz him and his fleet takes off
Byrd is abducted and taken to their world shown its not so bad...
Byrd returns and writes that all in his Diary...
Von Braun defects with 1000 plus others
US snags most of the saucers before Russia but not all
Von Braun works for US Army, plans Moon Base
Disney called in to make movie about Moon Base in case anyone finds out
All going good till Kennedy sticks his nose in... promises us the Moon.
NASA fakes Apollo to cover real program...
Kennedy gets the axe for butting in
NASA takes pics of the moon... puts in cheesy obviously crappy editing
Reason... to keep the conspiracy alive so we look the other way
Proof is the fuzzy bleeped out square on LRO

There... a condensed version summing up all the conspiracies. Now I could flesh that out a bit... but you get the idea




[edit on 22-9-2009 by zorgon]

[edit on 22-9-2009 by zorgon]

reply to post by jritzmann

Nope no smoke or mirrors... tried twice, get a "your token has expired" I can do a screen capture if you like

reply to post by Skeptical Ed

You would be correct sir. One person who is very close to me in Bulgaria (He was my best man at my wedding) is very familiar with US Military Aircraft usually identifies "UFO's" as Military Aircraft quickly.
My friend, Stanko says that he thinks people might be seeing some sort of Joint Operations (EU) Stealth Fighter which officially doesn't come available until 2017 but is actually being tested now over Iraq. But that is pure speculation. Bulgaria is but a hop, skip, and a jump from Iraq and I am told that there was quite a show in the sky (And a bunch of UFO reports I might add) right before we went into Iraq.

reply to post by Arbitrageur


They dropped it from the X-ray machine converyor belt in Atlanta...gave in back to me in 3 pieces.

reply to post by zorgon


Thats happened to me too....

turned out to be an expired DNS cache.

try flushing your DNS...that should fix it.

Wes, do you know anything juicy about the Orion project?

Also, have you ever had knowledge that there was better technology developed for military applications that was not available to NASA (such as thermal protection, etc) for one reason or another?

Those space shuttles are pretty sorry-ass machines in my book, and the Orion replacement is basically polishing a turd from what I have seen. What is your personal insight on the direction you think NASA should be going as far as equipment and missions?

HEY JIM, I wouldn't mind hearing your input on all of the above as well.

Originally posted by IgnoreTheFacts
Those space shuttles are pretty sorry-ass machines in my book, and the Orion replacement is basically polishing a turd from what I have seen. What is your personal insight on the direction you think NASA should be going as far as equipment and missions?

Naw, i'm pretty impressed by the shuttles, they were the only way to assembly a space station as open-ended as the one we now have -- and they were betrayed by sorry-ass officials who made bad decisions that violated known NASA safe practices. That's why I went to Congress in 1997 and then walked out of my day job -- I saw another disaster coming and I realized I couldn't stop it.

They've had their day and it's time to retire them -- but without them, we'd be nowhere in space now.

True, they served their purpose. But they REALLY missed the mark if they were going for the "space truck" goal.

The shuttles had much higher risk than they should have had, and I agree that it was nothing more than red tape/political bs that made it that way...so knowing that, is there any hope that the Orion project isn't the same?

NASA projects are managed poorly, plain and simple. I don't think there is a bigger collection of intelligent people on the planet that are as underused as those that work for NASA. Must have been very frustrating?

reply to post by jritzmann


Jeff: I just visited Paratopia and noticed a problem you ought to fix. At the top, where it says: "Paratopia - Jeff Ritzmann and Jeremy Vaeni explore in-depth the high strangeness of the Paranormal. Interviews with guests from" it ends with"from" and the line below is not visible although it's copiable which I did to find out what it says which it's this: "inside and outside the paranormal venues."

reply to post by JimOberg


Can you provide a reason as to why shuttles are not used to travel to the moon and carry landers, etc.? They are superior vehicles to what the lunar astronauts used. Was there any consideration ever? Heck, I'm thinking that shuttles would be satisfactory to go to Mars also. What say you?

Originally posted by Skeptical Ed Was there any consideration ever?

US PATENT 5,092,545

Method of Delivering Lunar Generated Fluid
to Earth Orbit Using an External Tank

Publication number: US5092545
Publication date: 1992-03-03
Inventor: BUTTERFIELD ANSEL J (US); GOSLEE JOHN W (US)
Applicant: NASA (US)

ABSTRACT

A method and apparatus are provided for delivering lunar generated fluid to Earth orbit from lunar orbit. Transport takes place in an external tank of a shuttle which has been suitably outfitted in Earth orbit for reusable travel between Earth orbit and a lunar orbit. The outfitting of the external tank includes the adding of an engine, an electrical system, a communication system, a guidance system, an aerobraking device, and a plurality of interconnected fluid storage tanks to the hydrogen and oxygen tanks of the external tank. The external tank is then propelled to lunar orbit the first time using Earth based propellant. In lunar orbit, the storage tanks are filled with the lunar generated fluid with the remainder tank volumes filled with lunar generated liquid oxygen and hydrogen which serve as propellants for returning the tank to Earth orbit where the fluid is off-loaded. The remaining lunar generated oxygen and hydrogen is then sufficient to return the external tank to lunar orbit so that a subsequent cycle of fluid delivery is repeated. A space station in a higher Earth orbit is preferably used to outfit the external tank, and a lunar node in lunar orbit is used to store and transfer the fluid and liquid oxygen and hydrogen to the external tank. The lunar generated fluid is preferably 3He.

www.thelivingmoon.com...

reply to post by Skeptical Ed

For starters:
Saturn V
Payload (Apollo): 177,800 kg
1st stage thrust: 33,360,000N
2nd stage thrust: 5,170,000N
3rd stage thrust: 1,030,000N

Space Shuttle
Payload (LEO): 24,990kg
Thrust: 32,400,000N

The shuttle can't carry enough mass. It would take 8 flights to get the Apollo payload to orbit and remember the Apollo missions met the minimum requirements. We don't need to do them again so the payloads for future missions would be greater. I don't know if you could carry the delta V (even with a full main tank) to fuel the main engines to get you to the moon (assuming the payload would physically fit in the cargo bay).

Oops, forgot you wouldn't need a bunch of stuff. You could get the LM package (with some to spare for more goodies) on a single flight. But for the lunar round trip I still think you would have delta V problems with getting the whole thing into a translunar orbit and still have enough fuel to kick it out of lunar orbit.

[edit on 9/25/2009 by Phage]

reply to post by zorgon

It's "downhill" most of the way from the Moon to Earth. The return trip is "deadheaded" (empty).

[edit on 9/25/2009 by Phage]

Originally posted by PhageThe return trip is "deadheaded" (empty).

Not if they pick up Cargo like some tanks of He3

reply to post by zorgon


Hey Zorgon,

With all of the Helium 3 being bought back, you'd think that its presence and use might possibly be detected by the trail of paperwork it leaves....

And then if one could locate a delivery slip or something to that effect - and for a substance for which there is no source that could provide it in those quantities indicated on the slip - perhaps this might be reason to suspect more covert means of production, extraction and even a secret source.

You wouldn't happen to know anything about Helium 3 deliveries, would you?







[edit on 25-9-2009 by Exuberant1]

Originally posted by Skeptical Ed
reply to post by JimOberg

 

Can you provide a reason as to why shuttles are not used to travel to the moon and carry landers, etc.? They are superior vehicles to what the lunar astronauts used. Was there any consideration ever? Heck, I'm thinking that shuttles would be satisfactory to go to Mars also. What say you?

There are some very helpful descriptions of the speed and limited altitude range of the shuttle on, oh, about two thousand websites. Ed, this is a dismaying question because you really have shown good engineering insights in discussions in the past.

Google the "rocket equation" and use it to calculate how many million pounds of extra fuel would be needed to get the shuttle to Mars. How how many hundreds of tons of of cryo for the fuel cells. And... oh, just go try it.

reply to post by zorgon


I thought the point was to bring cargo from lunar orbit to Earth orbit, deliver it, then return empty. Didn't you read what you quoted?

[edit on 9/25/2009 by Phage]