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Topic started on 4-7-2009 @ 09:59 AM by woodwardjnr
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I'm not sure I'm down with the chemtrail conspiracy yet. I do look up and see contrails over the sky which result in an A type formation then
contrails start to get wider and hang around.
Other contrails just evaporate behind the plane. Whats the difference and why do they behave differently? is it an altitude thing or different types
of fuel?
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reply posted on 4-7-2009 @ 10:04 AM by Le Colonel
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disappearing contrails are jet exhaust, or super cooled air, and it disappears as the surrounding air warms it back to normal.
The ones that linger look to be full of poisons, particulate matter, and other fun stuff.
I used to be on the fence with chemtrails, but I have seen too many to know better.
I have seen a contrail, then minutes later another place will pass over and their exhaust, or chemtrail, lasts for hours. I have seen them pass over
at night also, blocking my not so great view of the stars (light pollution)
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reply posted on 4-7-2009 @ 10:51 AM by ChemBreather
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reply to post by Le Colonel
Halleluja, we have a believer ! Glad there are more than me,my self and I seeing this !!!
What changed your mind ??
Even my wife have started to look more carfully at the long kilometer wide water farts , and I bought this book yester day , she wanted to look in it
and the first chapter she landed on was called ' Aids and Chemtrails'..
She is now on the fence..Same with vaccines, she works at a doctors office and get some info from FHI Norwegian Health Institute.She see things are
not as portraited in the media..Plain and simple !!
That was just to clearfy why she starts to believe it too.. 
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reply posted on 4-7-2009 @ 11:00 AM by Le Colonel
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I have noticed chemtrails for the last few years, but was never sure what it was. After many images taken, and just watching what they are doing, I
have come to the conclusion that they ARE spraying something. Even my father, a HUGE skeptic, is starting to come around. They are wierd, but I can
do nothing but watch.
I have an image taken two winters ago, where two plances were spraying to each side of me, very low, and after passing over my location, they turned
around and came back SIDE by SIDE and turned on the sprayers again. Truly interesting image. I will try to fish it out somewhere. I should post it
here.
No vaccine for me either. With their little RFID chips in the serum, no thanks. Id rather die...
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reply posted on 4-7-2009 @ 11:16 AM by weedwhacker
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reply to post by Le Colonel
I have an image taken two winters ago, where two plances were spraying to each side of me, very low, and after passing over my location, they
turned around and came back SIDE by SIDE and turned on the sprayers again.
I too would like to see those pictures. Especially because you said they were low. If they were low enough maybe we could determine what type they
were.
I've repeatedly, as some know, tried to refute the most obviously 'natural' contrails that are formed by ordinary passenger jets --- and I've
always left open the possibility of Military operations that are not made public.
By educating people in being able to tell the difference, it will help to direct focus where it should be, and not be confused by normal contrails, so
that IF there is anything to 'chemtrails' then it can be determined once and for all.
Low-flying airplanes seen spraying? That would be significant, especially if they are shown to be flying parallel, 'side-by-side'. AND if say,
below 10,000 feet altitude. BECAUSE, then they would definately NOT be contrails.
SO, again, if you can find photos it will be most interesting.
But...to many ATS members, from Canada and Norway...why all these observations so far North? Perhaps that's a question to consider as well...
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reply posted on 4-7-2009 @ 11:18 AM by Le Colonel
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Check back here, I am not on home computer, so when i go home later, i will find the image. I will post it here in a couple hours.
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reply posted on 4-7-2009 @ 11:19 AM by ~Lucidity
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Plenty of topics about this on ATS, where most people seem to be decidedly polarized on one side of the fence or the other. I personally rarely
participate in the "discussions" because 1.) they tend to get too heated for me and 2.) for some reason, on this particular topic, I long ago made
up my mind and it's hard for me to deal with people who don't "see. (I'm only like that, have a so-to-say definite opinion and relatively closed
mind about one other thing ... Sarah Palin! lol) I know chemtrails are real.
I've seen them in too many places and watched the planes day after month after year and seen too many patterns personally to know they're doing
something. What I don't know is exactly what or why. There are many possiblities and theories, from Tesla shields and weapons, to HAARP, to airborne
immunization or desensitization to weather modification and weaponization and many more, so on this I remain open.
Keep looking up.
[edit on 4-7-2009 by ~Lucidity]
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reply posted on 4-7-2009 @ 11:32 AM by Genus
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I live in California and i've seen plenty of contrails from planes, but i've never seen any strange chemtrail looking things. Though a couple weeks
ago I saw a bunch of little cloud formations like someone quickly made an S with a paintbrush.
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reply posted on 4-7-2009 @ 11:37 AM by Skelkie3
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You better believe there are chemtrails... the only question for non-disinfos is ' what the hell are they for ? '.
Here's how I was convinced:
I saw a jumbo jet spewing vapors in a huge oval that extended over the borders of two countries, and - more tellingly, the aircraft passed over some
of the most controlled military airspace in the world.
I have seen many, many things in aviation over several decades. At first, I thought I saw an aircraft dumping fuel for some reason... this was before
the aircraft stopped its dump when it got to the point where it started- and then left the area in a beeline... leaving aperfect racetrack shaped oval
of material that was +/- 15 miles X 5 miles.
As if this wasn't strange enough, the aircraft came back several hours later, and made a low level run through the area. I say it was the same
aircraft because ' both ' were Boeing 737's painted bright orange.
I haven't often seen bright orange 737's at a thousand feet in this part of the remote Arizona desert...
Initial spray was about 30000-40000 feet.
A multiagency clearance from God would be required to fly over some of this flight path.
The question is only ' what the hell are they doing ? ' .
[edit on 4-7-2009 by Skelkie3]
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reply posted on 4-7-2009 @ 11:46 AM by ChemBreather
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reply to post by weedwhacker
ehh, dont you ever think of the possibility that thousands of people may not be wrong ? Is it always you that are right because you know alot about
contrails and clouds ?
It is going on, I see this planes almost every second day, and why contrails stay over large areas over long times just every other day when the
temprature is the same two weeks straight ? Dont add up..sorry.
Im just figure with the heat we have from the sun now, those trails should NOT be able to take hours to get the right temprature to vanish..
Second, low flying sprayer are happening alot here were I live, tuesday morning about 5:30 am , two LearJet look alikes crossed paths pretty low just
above the cloud layer her over the valley. Trails spread out way wider than the plane it self and looked like when you take cream out of those Cream
in a Can things.. no water vapour, unless they have Changed the last years.... 
Let us look at the times it has been on the news, why would'nt people working in the media see the contrails for what they are and blow off the story
? Or is it so that people that 'take notice of change' is an idiot and must be rediculed into the grips of silence by the ones surfing the net with
an handbook of lines to type ? I constantly see the same people saying alomst the excact same thing and totally pull down the person that 'wonder
about a thing they saw' and usually there is no debate, just Contrails, nothing more to see here, sounds like an Nazi giving orders: They are
CONTRAILS; GOT IT !!  Ludacris if you ask me !
But, I may be wrong too, maybe we all never have seen planes before ..
[edit on 4-7-2009 by ChemBreather]
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reply posted on 4-7-2009 @ 12:01 PM by weedwhacker
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reply to post by Skelkie3
Skelkie, some of what you posted goes directly to my earlier comments...let's not use examples of possible normal contrails, eh?
I saw a jumbo jet spewing vapors in a huge oval... over some of the most controlled military airspace in the world.
You're in Arizona, as noted below. I know thre are a lot of Restricted Areas and MOAs there. They are military controlled.
...I thought I saw an aircraft dumoping fuel for some reason... leaving aperfect racetrack shaped oval of material that was +/- 15 miles X 5
miles.
You've just described a "holding pattern":
en.wikipedia.org...(aviation)
As if this wasn't strange enough, the aircraft came back several hours later, and made a low level run through the area. I say it was the same
aircraft because ' both ' were Boeing 737's painted bright orange.
Earlier, though I edited it out for brevity, you described the airplane "dumping fuel" as a jumbo jet. A Boeing 737 is not a jumbo jet, nor can it
dump fuel.
I haven't often seen bright orange 737's at a thousand feet in this part of the remote Arizona desert...
Initial spray was about 30000-40000 feet.
THIS is very confusing, and contradictory. Can you elaborate? A 'bright orange' 737 at a thousand feet, then at "30000-40000 feet"??
30,000 feet is nearly six miles!! Did you use binoculars??
Also, bright orange? There are airplanes that will have bright orange markings, usually on the tails and wingtips, but not the entire airplane. The
bright orange markings are to denote a military unarmed aircraft. It is high visibility for a reason!!! Seems if they were trying to spray in
a clandestine manner, they'd be less obvious....
[edit on 4 July 2009 by weedwhacker]
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reply posted on 4-7-2009 @ 12:16 PM by ChemBreather
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 Grmf !
Do not say that was then, they wouldnt do this now, that is an horrible stupid ignorant way of thinking. They have done this to the populus of Earth
for ages, NOW we are starting to see..
Why do it NOW, ? Perfect, how would you go about infecting a whole world of healthy people with an manufactures FLU ?
It is well know that healthy people dont get infected that easy ?
Chemtrails contain for the most part Barium on the reposrts I have seen , and NO, not just on Rense.com, Ive seen Norwegian lab reports too..
Barium Destroys the Immune Defence of the body, again , HOW infect all those people !?? Sounds Sci-fi ? are the coming Flu sci-fi ? I think not !
Millions were in germ war tests
Much of Britain was exposed to bacteria sprayed in secret trials
Antony Barnett, public affairs editor
Observer
Sunday April 21, 2002
The Ministry of Defence turned large parts of the country into a giant laboratory to conduct a series of secret germ warfare tests on the public.
A government report just released provides for the first time a comprehensive official history of Britain's biological weapons trials between 1940
and 1979.
Many of these tests involved releasing potentially dangerous chemicals and micro-organisms over vast swaths of the population without the public being
told.
While details of some secret trials have emerged in recent years, the 60-page report reveals new information about more than 100 covert experiments.
The report reveals that military personnel were briefed to tell any 'inquisitive inquirer' the trials were part of research projects into weather
and air pollution.
The tests, carried out by government scientists at Porton Down, were designed to help the MoD assess Britain's vulnerability if the Russians were to
have released clouds of deadly germs over the country.
In most cases, the trials did not use biological weapons but alternatives which scientists believed would mimic germ warfare and which the MoD claimed
were harmless. But families in certain areas of the country who have children with birth defects are demanding a public inquiry.
One chapter of the report, 'The Fluorescent Particle Trials', reveals how between 1955 and 1963 planes flew from north-east England to the tip of
Cornwall along the south and west coasts, dropping huge amounts of zinc cadmium sulphide on the population. The chemical drifted miles inland, its
fluorescence allowing the spread to be monitored. In another trial using zinc cadmium sulphide, a generator was towed along a road near Frome in
Somerset where it spewed the chemical for an hour.
While the Government has insisted the chemical is safe, cadmium is recognised as a cause of lung cancer and during the Second World War was considered
by the Allies as a chemical weapon.
In another chapter, 'Large Area Coverage Trials', the MoD describes how between 1961 and 1968 more than a million people along the
south coast of England, from Torquay to the New Forest, were exposed to bacteria including e.coli and bacillus globigii , which mimics anthrax. These
releases came from a military ship, the Icewhale, anchored off the Dorset coast, which sprayed the micro-organisms in a five to 10-mile radius.
[edit on 4-7-2009 by ChemBreather]
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reply posted on 4-7-2009 @ 12:27 PM by weedwhacker
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reply to post by ChemBreather
Yes, Chem....we know, we know!! Look
at the dates in the report, look at why it was done, and note these details:
The tests, carried out by government scientists at Porton Down, were designed to help the MoD assess Britain's vulnerability if the
Russians were to have released clouds of deadly germs over the country.
In most cases, the trials did not use biological weapons but alternatives which scientists believed would mimic germ warfare and which
the MoD claimed were harmless. But families in certain areas of the country who have children with birth defects are demanding a public inquiry.
One chapter of the report, 'The Fluorescent Particle Trials', reveals how between 1955 and 1963 planes flew from north-east England to
the tip of Cornwall along the south and west coasts, dropping huge amounts of zinc cadmium sulphide on the population. The chemical drifted miles
inland, its fluorescence allowing the spread to be monitored. In another trial using zinc cadmium sulphide, a generator was towed along a
road near Frome in Somerset where it spewed the chemical for an hour.
Grmf, indeed.
AND, my immune system is just fine, thank you.
highlighting and focusing on this:
...But families in certain areas of the country who have children with birth defects are demanding a public inquiry.
...because there are many reasons for birth defects to occur. Many here on ATS are concerned about Flouride added to water supplies. There have been
many commonly used prescription drugs taken off the market after being found to contribute to birth defects. There are other environmental issues
with industrial pollution to consider. Jumping to conclusions about 'spraying' should take everything into account first.
wzus1.ask.com...
&ac=18&g=1f32O8i0AkT9iY&en=te&io=0&ep=&eo=&b=a002&bc=&br=&tp=d&ec=1&pt=Drug%20Birth%20Defects&ex=tsrc%3Dtled&url=&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ask.com%2Fbar%3Fq
%3Ddrug%2Bbirth%2Bdefects%26page%3D1%26qsrc%3D2106%26ab%3D2%26u%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.medindia.net%252Fpatients%252Fpatientinfo%252Fdrugbirthdefect
s.htm
Teratogenicity refers to the capability of a drug to cause fetal abnormalities when administered to the pregnant mother. One of the best-known
examples of such a drug- induced birth defect is the Thalidomide disaster. The drug was prescribed on a wide scale to pregnant
mothers to ease the anxiety associated with it. The large-scale consumption of the drug resulted in children born with seal like limbs, often
referred to as phocomelia. The drug was banned for prescription in 1961.
AND...
Thalidomide: Phocomelia, multiple birth defects
Anticancer drugs: Multiple birth defects, fetal death
Androgens: Virilisation, limb, esophagal and cardiac defects
Corticosteroids: Cleft palate, cleft lip, cardiac defects
Warfarin: Nose, eye, hand defects, growth retardation
Isotretinoin: Craniofacial, heart and CVS defects
Aspirin, Indomethacin: Premature closure of ductus arteriosus
Valproate Sodium: Spina bifida, neural tube defects
Tetracyclines: Discolored, deformed teeth, retarded bone growth
Lithium: Fetal goitre, cardiac and other abnormalities
[edit on 4 July 2009 by weedwhacker]
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reply posted on 4-7-2009 @ 12:28 PM by Udontknowme
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I also believe in Chemtrails. I believe it is a form of weather modification that blocks incoming radar, but allows transmission, called VTRPE
The environmental model coupled with RADSIM is the Variable Terrain Radiowave Parabolic Equation model.
VTRPE is a range dependent, tropospheric microwave
propagation model that uses the split step Fourier
electromagnetic parabolic wave equation algorithm [2].
The applicable frequency range is 100mhz to 100ghz.
VTRPE, in addition, has a well-defined set of input
data needs.
www.dtic.mil...
Runs on a FORTAN and UNIX base machine language system, kinda what the IBM platform capabilities of the computer John Titor came/went back for.
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reply posted on 4-7-2009 @ 12:36 PM by ChemBreather
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reply to post by weedwhacker
See you think you can tear apart every thread with pointing out small things that does not matter at all...
Your grasping .. Seriously talking lies !!!
Ohhh Was it 29.999 feet or 30.000 cause that makes all the differense ??? What is that ??? like all other Chemtrail .....s they have a job to do, and
debunking all eveidence is the job.
You deny Pictures , Lab reports and govermental documents and admitions. Maybe you should come with some proof that these Chemtrails are just
contrails, and NO, do not post a Chem Picture and a line from your hand book, it doesnt cut the mustard...
And you did exactly what I say, thinking that the year it happend has any thing at all to do with it ?? if the date was to day , youd only say ,
NO,THEY STOPPED THIS 3 HOURS AGO... Doesnt matter one bit ..
What does Wiki say ??
Lets look !!
Project MKULTRA
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
(Redirected from Project Monarch)
Jump to: navigation, search
"MKULTRA" redirects here. For other uses, see MKULTRA (disambiguation).
Declassified MKULTRA documentsProject MK-ULTRA, or MKULTRA, was the code name for a covert CIA mind-control and chemical interrogation research
program, run by the Office of Scientific Intelligence. The program began in the early 1950s, continuing at least through the late 1960s, and it used
United States citizens as its test subjects.[1][2][3] The published evidence indicates that Project MK-ULTRA involved the surreptitious use of many
types of drugs, as well as other methods, to manipulate individual mental states and to alter brain function.
Project MK-ULTRA was first brought to wide public attention in 1975 by the U.S. Congress, through investigations by the Church Committee, and by a
presidential commission known as the Rockefeller Commission. Investigative efforts were hampered by the fact that CIA Director Richard Helms ordered
all MK-ULTRA files destroyed in 1973; the Church Committee and Rockefeller Commission investigations relied on the sworn testimony of direct
participants and on the relatively small number of documents that survived Helms' destruction order.[4]
Although the CIA insists that MK-ULTRA-type experiments have been abandoned, 14-year CIA veteran Victor Marchetti has stated in various interviews
that the CIA routinely conducts disinformation campaigns and that CIA mind control research continued. In a 1977 interview, Marchetti specifically
called the CIA claim that MK-ULTRA was abandoned a "cover story."[5][6]
On the Senate floor in 1977, Senator Ted Kennedy said:
The Deputy Director of the CIA revealed that over thirty universities and institutions were involved in an "extensive testing and experimentation"
program which included covert drug tests on unwitting citizens "at all social levels, high and low, native Americans and foreign." Several of these
tests involved the administration of LSD to "unwitting subjects in social situations." At least one death, that of Dr. Olson, resulted from these
activities. The Agency itself acknowledged that these tests made little scientific sense. The agents doing the monitoring were not qualified
scientific observers.[7]
To this day most specific information regarding Project MKULTRA remains highly classified information.
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reply posted on 4-7-2009 @ 12:42 PM by jesiaha
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Originally posted by Le Colonel
Check back here, I am not on home computer, so when i go home later, i will find the image. I will post it here in a couple hours.
Interesting, I live downtown Quebec city and I haven't witnessed any chemtrails recently although I remember seeing them elsewhere outside the area
in the past. Looking forward to seeing your pictures, and I'll keep looking up as well 
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reply posted on 4-7-2009 @ 12:43 PM by ChemBreather
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reply to post by weedwhacker
which the MoD claimed were harmless. But families in certain areas of the country who have children with birth defects are
demanding a public inquiry.
Yes, they CLAIMED, I CLAIM this and that, doesnt make it true , and you know it !!!
Who are liyng and taking away liberties ? GovernMents . Who cant we trust ? So people waiting for the President to say it is so , have nothing to
contribute to he Chemtrail discussion imo ...
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reply posted on 4-7-2009 @ 12:44 PM by Udontknowme
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It all about changing the rythm from analog to digital.
Analog is the rythm of life on earth, digital is a manmade rythm.
Control of the masses is being attempted to block incoming, life giving signal from outer space to from source such as the sun, and turn into
software driven signals given by man.
That is why we had to change to digital tv.
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reply posted on 4-7-2009 @ 12:54 PM by weedwhacker
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reply to post by ChemBreather
Chem, you're getting unnecessarily agitated.
I just like to sort the fiction and misconceptions...they will interfere with any truth that may exist.
AS TO......MK-ULTRA?
That program used illicit drugs on unwitting 'guinea pig' Humans, I believe they were soldiers. It was wrong, certainly. I also heard of ULTRA,
and it was associated with "Remote Viewing" experiments as part of a Cold War defense strategy the CIA were developing.
I'm not "grasping at straws"...some 'chemtrail' advocates are, though. This requires a cold, hard dispassionate look, with the hyperbole thrown
out of the mix.
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reply posted on 4-7-2009 @ 12:58 PM by ChemBreather
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reply to post by Udontknowme
Would not surprise me ! they are making people BrainNumb to the Co-Creation deadline october 28th 2011..
Thats why they made 2012 to be such an event, every one is focusing on Dec. 2012, and that is too late, The Powers have theyr Montauk Chairs to
amplify their world... We are debating the Obviose Chemtrails and the Elite are rubbing their hands...
That is why they added the nifty 11:11 when they converted to the gregorian calendar, it is ALL planed, and I cant in any way show what I want too
people cause the subject is too wide..
Or I am wrong again, cause it isnt in the schoolbooks !!...
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