Young people to older adults, "We know better, leave us alone!" Survey

reply to post by OldThinker


You asked...

1) Why is this happening?
2) Are we losing control of society?
3) Have we lost respect for the wisdom of our elders?

1/. Because WE allowed it to get this way. We did not stand up and tell our governments that we did not want all that violence, sex, disrespect, hatred as portrayed in the popular media that our kids have had force-fed to them for the pst 30 years.

We had the right to say NO, but we didn't because the bleeding hearts were telling us we needed to get up with the times... and that kids had rights before they were mentally mature enough to deal with them or need them.

2/. Yes. We lost what little control we did have about 30 years ago. Now all the control you do have is in switching off the radio/TV/game console you kids are getting the wrong impressions about reality from.

3/. Yes. The elderly are seen as excess to our needs, which is why our modern culture has retirement villages and homes so that we do not care for our Elders in the manner that they should be. How will we be treated when we are elderly?

Yes the kids do have another culture to us. It is their's. It has been indoctrinated into them for 30 years, and then into the kids of that inter-generation and so forth.. becoming worse in each set of age groups until we reach where we are today. The process of disempowerment in the home, the family breakdown, the forced content from media have all increased to a point which is becoming very unstable for society.

While there have always been generation gaps, few are as divergent as what we see in my lifetime so far. There is no cure other than to teach our children better, lead by example, and be a real parent.. not one of those who give everything to their kids without there being something in return of value to the family.

All kids have always believed thay know better... just as we aged we learned how wrong we were. Not so today with their warped sense of reality that is supported by their peers and culture where girls are for pleasure and boys are to be soldiers on the street.

That is not real world living. That is controlled, conditioned manipulation from the PTB over many years to bring about anarchy and dysfunction. And it has succeeded.

I for one do not allow most of the American street culture into my home as I have en impressionable 14 year old daughter who thinks she can do what the girls on TV are allowed to do and have the same freedoms. I am showing her she is a child who I love and cherish, who I want to see reach her ability and not end up another pregnant teen with some scum boyfriend hanging off her with no options left but to follow the crowd into more manipulated blue-pill reality.

It's funny how Generation X, those born from 1965 to 1979, are actually quite conservative these days. Definitely more conservative than the Boomers (1946-1964) or my generation, Y (1980-1994).

My opinion is that older people cherish old ideas and do not ever bother to reevaluate these notions and their current value or use in society.

This is the cycle of life, coupled with so much available information change will increase
in frequency.

reply to post by OldThinker


1) Why is this happening? Is this really new? No, this is something that has occured every generation, this one isn't different. Look at the significant changes between pre-1960s to just the mid 60's-70s, huge change. It was as though it was over night. Then the 80s generation were even more rebellious, then the 90's thought toned down a bit, but still know better than adults. Right now, I think it may seem worse because of the advancements of our society, and with that has made our world smaller. Internet, cell phones, texting, media. Our society is really a reflection of what we see on the media. Britney Spears several years ago was a good example, every girl under 15 dressed liked her. Same thing with Eminiem, you saw every punk teen with a wife beater and hair bleached blonde, and then acting like him. When celebrities be it actors, or musicians are encouraging rebellion, it only adds fuel to the fire. Every generation thinks the previous one was outdated and stupid, but yet you notice that trends seem to skip generations. For example, women fought so hard to not be in the housewife role, but now you see more women wanting to go back to that role willingly, curious isn't it?

2) Are we losing control of society? I don't think so. Every generation has had an identity that history could easily identify. When you think of the 20's, it was the roaring 20's, the 30's-40's Great depression and WWII, the 50's Korea, cold war, white picket fence family units, people who they were in happy days, 60's JFK, Vietnam, civil rights movement, hippies, drugs, riots, change 70's inflation, free love, disco, drugs, bad furniture, afros (black and white men), Nixon/watergate, 80's, music, strange hair/clothing styles, madonna, movies, pop culture in general, Ronald Reagan, the delorean, conclusion of cold war, the berlin wall, walkmans, boom boxes, etc 90's rise of hip hop then to rap, Desert Storm, Bill Clinton, technology boom, not to much else in regards to originality.

Present decade, as far as styles and pop culture, not much, I guess computers, video games would be thrown in because this generation seem to be trying to combine all of the other decades, even the current president is trying to act like a bunch of dead presidents, so maybe this generation will be remembered for 9/11, and the "war on terrorism". I think the current generation has the biggest identity crisis, perhaps that is why the attitudes.
Not so much rebels without a cause or an idea what they are rebelling against. So maybe this is why its seems like we are losing control of society. No identity, overload of media and technology. This generation is lazier than previous ones, so that could be it. Maybe modern advances have made us take things for granted that society has become lazy, and when a person is lazy, they are tired and whiny all the time, so maybe that is starting to define this generation. Much to say and think on this subject.

3) Have we lost respect for the wisdom of our elders?
Good question. I think it really depends on where you live not only in world but just in the U.S in general. I notice that families that live in small towns that are more than 50 miles from a big city, but aren't necessarily in the middle of nowhere seem to still carry on the traditional values. Some may be out dated, yes, but I did notice that there is still respect that goes on for not only parents, but also grandparents as well in these kinds of areas. People that live in cities or in suburbs seem to be the most "rebellious". They are typically the ones seen that don't seem to care what the elders have to say.

"Just put granny in the home, she stinks, or she is just too old fashioned, we can't have her crampin my style". "My parents are retarded, the have no idea what I'm going through, no idea what it's like to be me, no idea what it's like to be young, in fact when they were young they had it easy!" That's a mixture of phrases you hear. But as I said, this is nothing new, my sisters talked like this to our grandfather over 20 years ago, so maybe not much has changed. I do notice that in this generation, the kids do seem to be more interested in hearing about the great depression, wwII, and everything else from anyone that is still alive from that era more so than the previous. Maybe it's because this is a similarity with this generation and that one. Maybe it's the economic times, or maybe the attitudes were the same.

Again, these questions are good ones and require some thought because my answers don't apply to all. I see lot's of people today that are very respectful towards their elders, and others not so much. My great great grandmother had kept all clothes from even when she was young. When asked why, she said that trends always have a way of coming back in some way, so these will be back in style someday. She did have a point.

I think it's a wonderful sign of progress in our society. People are becoming more educated for one, and that's what is essentially leading up to this divide. Younger generations are learning things at a much faster pace than their predecessors and that's something that is not being taken into account here. I just think the older generations are beomcing less secure with themselves.

reply to post by OldThinker I think it's very difficult to respect someone's opinion when they have demonstrably made serious mistakes. If those mistakes are repeats of others, it becomes difficult to respect the person too. The risk is of 'throwing the baby out with the bathwater', a wholesale rejection of wisdom. Still, I'm 41 & I fully understand when kids look @me & see a member of the generation that brought us to our current mess, just as I look @those 65+ as responsible for the mess I inherited.
As some have said, societies change, but somehow there are always conservatives retarding progress &/or trying to turn the clock back. Thus it takes @least disrespectful & usually angry youth to get any significant progress. Trouble is we get old, personal responsibilities become pressing. In our fear of making bad decisions, we increasingly rely on the 'tried & tested' ideas of those who went before us: we become the conservatives we formerly disagreed with & in hiding from our shame, belittle those who would pick up where we left off as 'ignorant kids' & often work against them.
The saddest thing is that, in doing so, we rob society of many of the gains that can only be achieved through the fearlessness of youth. Sure, 'folly of youth' will make mistakes, but isn't that what older wisdom is for, to help fix them? It seems to work the other way around: the 'wisdom' seems to prefer trying to make no mistakes by doing as little new as possible, thus history just repeats itself. But if we're not prepared to fail, if we're not bold, how can we ever get anywhere? We'd still be living in trees if we applied our current social attitudes to early humans.
What depresses me about the poll was the characterisation of this current widening age gap as "more tepid in nature than it was in the 1960s". Where is their Jim Morrison, their Janis Joplin? Oh right, P Diddy & Paris Hilton... "tepid"? Bought off, more like...

Wisdom doesn't come with physical aging.

Anyone who voted for the two main candidates in the elections is excluded on the 'wise' list.

Molding Minds - Ascent of Humanity

In taking children away from the matrix of family, nature, and social apprenticeship, mass schooling is essentially an enormous experiment in social engineering, the fruition of thousands of years of utopianism going back to Plato in which institutional training of the young was always a crucial component. Up through the Owenite and socialist experiments of the 19th and 20th centuries, children were removed, at least in part, from their families. Sorry, but the family is obsolete: henceforward we are going to raise children scientifically. Surely trained experts can do better than ignorant parents, surely science and reason can improve upon primitive, biological, emotion-driven families. The scientific laws of psychology and child behavior will replace the old irrational customs, and unclouded by parental subjectivity we will raise children for modern society. You, the modern parent, can do your best to learn about scientific parenting, but in most areas you'll have to yield to the experts.

The terminus of this trend is nothing other than Huxley's Brave New World, in which the factory method is applied to child-rearing from birth and before. All people are graded, from Alpha-plus to Delta-minus—sound familiar?—and each given the stimuli and resources appropriate to their grade.

1) Why is this happening?
Because it always has been like that, I think it is only human nature that makes "young people" think that "old people" only want to keep them back from doing what they want, in the same way that "old people" like to talk about the time when they were young.

Although not a fan of poetry, I always thought this sonnet from Camões explains it very well.

Times change, wills change,
Being changes, trust changes;
All the world is made of change,
Always taking in new qualities.

Continually we see new things,
in everything different from what was hoped;
From the bad the sorrows remain in memory,
from the good, if there was any, the longing.

Time covers the ground of green cloak,
which was already covered with cold snow,
And in me it converts in crying the sweet chant.

And apart from this everyday changing,
Another more astonishing change makes:
Change is not what it used to be.

(Something may have been lost in the translation from old Portuguese, I could not find a real translation so I had to do it myself)

2) Are we losing control of society?
We never had it, society itself is auto-controlled, with all the advantages and problems something like this have

3) Have we lost respect for the wisdom of our elders?
We never really had it either, some "young people" may have respect for some "old people", but I think it's impossible for people with less experience to fully understand things for which they do not have any real "measuring tool". Somewhat like what some people say about UFO, only after seeing one can we fully understand it (although I disagree ).

I think that the only thing that stays the same with human societies is the way people interact with each other, either as individuals or as groups. Some ancient Greece texts show that democracy and dictatorship were like what they are today more than 2000 years ago, the means used may change, but the way people think is always the same.

PS: thanks for asking my opinion.

[edit on 1/7/2009 by ArMaP]

I say good!

The whole concept that a person is older therefore wiser and society should listen to them is just plain old Ageist Elitist. A 68 year old is no smarter or wiser then a 23 year old by default. We are all humans, of various educations and a culmination of experiences that wildly differ from one person to another, in both trial and outcome. The only thing listening to your elders does is help maintain old doctrines, dogma, misconceptions and old school ignorance alive and well.


I see this as society taking a step towards the right direction.

Consider the words of Mark Twain from years past..

“When I was a boy of fourteen, my father was so ignorant I could hardly stand to have the old man around. But when I got to be twenty-one, I was astonished by how much he'd learned in seven years.” - Mark Twain

The difference between now and then is youth seems more sheltered in many ways. It takes them longer to realize what Mr. Twain was able to realize at 21.

Originally posted by Donnie Darko
It's funny how Generation X, those born from 1965 to 1979, are actually quite conservative these days. Definitely more conservative than the Boomers (1946-1964) or my generation, Y (1980-1994).

What comes after generation Z?

As far as the alphabet is concerned Z is the end.

Very interesting example of an answer being right in everyones face regardless of intentions and here we are all debating something we really do not understand in the end.

"The End"

Its all just a question of who wants to be in the credits.





[edit on 1-7-2009 by XXXN3O]

"Are we losing control of society?"

Who is the we in that sentence?

Society is progressing, moving forward as it always has and hopefully always will.

There's nothing wrong with that.

BTW I'm 40, neither a youngun or an old fart, I don't really have a dog in this fight

Guys, thank you so very much for the insightful responses...my plan is to reply individually after I get off work...


Again two thumbs up from OT

those who do not learn from history are destined to repeat it. Those words alone should answer all questions of young people thinking they have all the answers. I was a genius at 18, and somehow I got less smart and my father seemed to gain some knowledge along the way. Funny how that works.

"I was so much older then, I'm younger than that now" -Bob Dylan

I think this is happening simply because people are becoming more enlightened, more individualistic, and lately, people do have morals and values but they don't feel the need to force them upon others.

The older generation definitely has a more rigid structure of morals and values. The key word is rigid. My opinion from what I have deduced from their actions is that they are clinging to the last bastion of moral oppression. What I mean by that is that the older generation is the one that thinks forcing your religious views and moral standing upon others by way of laws and policy is justified. The younger generation simply doesn't believe that. We aren't devoid of morals and values, everyone I know are definitely noble in these respects. But we have more of mentality of I'll go about my business and let you go about yours as long as you don't try to stand in my way, or shove your beliefs down my throat.

We aren't losing control of society, in this sense. It's really just the older generations and the old set of rules that are losing control. And the people who are caught in between the young and the old are really just struggling to be able to make things work in their life while trying to reconcile between how they were brought up and how society is changing around them everyday. I could imagine that would be very hard to do without freaking out.

For example, I read a great article the other day about our societies obsession with parenthood. How being a parent has become some kind of HUGE life changing thing that we are led to believe will test every fiber of your being. One where you have to lose your identity as a person and you most likely will need professional help in order to survive. The subliminal pressure is what is dooming people to fail on the outset. Here is the link, it is very interesting: The Parenting Obsession Some exerpts:

Most people today don't grow up caring for young siblings or other kids, and don't know how to do even basic things like bathing or soothing babies. First-time parents can't count on grandparents anymore in most cases. And all of this means parenthood has become mystifying.

The public bought the idea that they were essentially a danger to their own kids and had better pay money for advice, that they'd better try really hard to do a good job, and they'd still inevitably fail.

So that might help out on the family structure part.

I don't believe we've lost respect for our elders at all. Respecting your elders does not mean believing they are infallible in all of their infinite wisdom. I still respect my elders. I was brought up that way. I wasn't allowed to talk back and I did what I was told. I think that parents nowadays are going over board and having trouble defining the line between healthy questioning of their actions by their kids (which I believe that people can learn a heck of a lot about themselves in that respect) and downright disobedience.

Anyway, I think we might just be moving into a period of time when we realize that the generations before us have A LOT to offer us in regards to experience and wisdom, but that some of their "ways" just aren't suitable for moving forward into a time where expression of individuality and freedom to live by a different set of values without being ridiculed for it or called a God-less heathen are the norm.

Also, their is definitely a gap in religion. But it's not because we are God-less or rampant with Atheism. I can speak for myself and some of those around me when I say that we have actually just taken more time to ponder things that others have ingrained into them from birth. It's becoming more about spirituality than it is about religion. That may sound like a bad thing to some but it really isn't. It's just that some people like me don't think you can contain the universe, the way it works, and the source of all living things into a structured belief system where you MUST abide by a set of rules if you are to expect to be given some kind of reward out of life or after it.

I am not a religious person but I know that there is something within every living thing that is so incredibly unfathomable that our heads would explode if we were told the secret. And I don't need to go to church every Sunday to have the realizations and epitome's that I have had in my life. And not calling myself a Christian or a Muslim, Jew, Buddhist, doesn't make me a disrespectful, mischief causing, degenerate who's only worry in this life is what only effects myself.

I think the older generation (as well as some others) have that interpretation because that's just what they were taught. They can't see that not abiding by a set of rules and fitting yourself into a religious box doesn't make you God-less.

This turmoil that is being seen isn't due to the degeneration of society as we know it. It's merely the struggle between the old and the new. The rigidity of the old way and flexibility of the new. There's bound to be some upset when one faction is struggling to stay keep things the way they've always been and the other is struggling to be released for oppressive chains.

^Wow, very good points. Are you part of the younger generation btw? I am, I'm 19, and I hope I don't grow into a bitter crusty old fart ever!

I do think we're becoming a bit TOO individualistic though - being your own person and being free is awesome, but there is a point at which one becomes a narcissistic "precious little snowflake" and that gets pretty ridiculous.

I also think those born AFTER 1989 are more open-minded and tolerant of "weirdness" than those born in the 1980s ... what do you think?

Originally posted by SourGrapes
.......


On another note:

We all think we are smarter, than the generation before us, when we are in our late teens to mid-twenties. It's natural, no really it is. It's a portion of brain-development that doesn't mature until around 30.

Intelligence peaks around late twenty's. This is the period to develop new technologies, build new ideas, go where no man has gone before!

----

My father has always said that we're all born Democrat (or Liberal). We become Republican (Conservative) later in life, or after we've fully matured.

He's a funny guy!

I agree about the late 20's bloom...

I do wonder if there was ever a study on the political changes in one's life as the get older....any body seen anything on this?

Ron Silva and Dennis Miller come to mind....

Originally posted by 10010010011

Right-wing American Jesus freaks love social Darwinism yet abhor biological Darwinism. The really odd thing is that Darwinism talks as much about cooperation (symbiosis) as competition.






What does this mean?

OT

Originally posted by nixie_nox
Just because someone is older, doesn't necessarily make them wise.....

True, I guess there are exceptions..... but you are not saying a 23 you is smarter/wiser than a 60 yr you?

OT