Watch lists, guns and government

Watch lists, guns and government

blogs.ajc.com

The secret government “Terrorist Watch List,” reportedly already swelled to more than 1.1 million names, will have an addendum, if gun control advocates in Congress have their way. This new addendum — also to be cloaked in secrecy — would empower the U.S. Attorney General to deny a person the ability to exercise their Second Amendment rights to purchase a firearm.While it is not surprising that some members of Congress are again using fear of terrorism to implement a gun-control agenda, the openly unconstitutional legislative language proponents are employing is troubling.
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www.examiner.com

We’ve all wondered if our names have been added to a list for speaking freely about controversial issues. Is it too late for us, are we on the Watch list the article states “The secret government “Terrorist Watch List,” reportedly already swelled to more than 1.1 million names” What does this mean to gun owners? Are we all terrorists and WHY? This may be the first of many LISTS the Government may order.

'Terrorist watch list' gun ban favors hysteria over rights’

The calculated hysteria to prime the public to accept further gun bans is being revved up, and that relies on manipulating people into making general conclusions. Witness prominent headlines on the topic:

And here's something we need to emphasize:

The names of the people on the watch list are secret, and Mr. Lautenberg said he was frustrated by the F.B.I.’s refusal to disclose to investigators details and specific cases of gun purchases beyond the aggregate data.

"The list itself is a big mystery. To my knowledge, there has not yet been significant information revealed about it. Who is on it? Why? Who puts one on it? How does one get his or her name placed on it? How does one get off it? Can a government official place on it the names of men and women considered unfriendly to the government official?"

Just what we need. A secret, unaccountable list maintained by secret, unaccountable people.

The American way, Comrade Frank Lautenberg-style...


Are you on it? Why? How can you get off it?


We can't tell you. It's a secret.

www.examiner.com...





blogs.ajc.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

That will be quite a huge list....

reply to post by Anonymous Avatar


Yes and the only way we would know if we are on the list is to go buy a gun. Ive heard of others being turned down and went the red tape to get it cleared up. It makes you wonder if he mentioned gun on a blog.

Well at least I made the cut! On a list of suspected terrorists. Glad I own all the guns I want. It's funny that with all the problems people had with a dept. of homeland security being created, the people with a problem with it are using it to go after their enemies. How long before colleges have their courses approved by thought police? The so called gun-toting right wing warmongers will be the first to go. Then we will see a culling of the intellectuals!

reply to post by hangedman13



I'd like to see this SECRET list. Some of us may be surprised. It would be alarming to see errors of most names.

Lets not forget they also hate "defenders of the Constitution", as well as those who police the police.

yeah i want to see that list too!!!!! has to be a hacker on here somewhere that can get it for us lol
and i'm with you hangman-I got all the guns i need so no need to buy anymore.
just would like to have more ammo tho and a few more magazines for the ak

reply to post by SurvivalGearDepot


Yes they dont much care for the constitution. They will find a way to do away with the 2nd amendment right, as well as many others. Most likely replaced with treaties.

reply to post by bigfoot1212


Yes Lets find the hackers, I want to see that lit and hopefully it's in alphabetical order!

Haha, I don't any 'hackers' are just going to come on ATS and say I'll go get this list for you!

I would petition the ACLU or NRA or some organization like that to file an FOIA for this list...

How are they going to deny me my Second Amendment right to go out on the street and ask around and find a nice fully loaded fully automatic weapon of my choice, armor piercing exploding rounds to go along with it, and a cool laser sight?

They only become inalienable rights when you won't give them up.

If you aren't pulling armed roberies or murdering people with your gun let them take it from you and charge you for illegal gun posession and then press the issue constitutionally in front of a Judge.

Or you could just make them eat lead!

The government has a whole lot more to worry about in what we the citizens might decide to do about it, than we do about what they imagine they can do to us the citizens.

The only person who can surrender your inalienable rights is you, you might have to fight for them, you might have to die for them...that is what makes them inalienable not the Constitution.

Gun buyers’ names found on terror watch list

The watch list — maintained by the FBI — is meant to identify known or suspected terrorists. However, the list has drawn criticism over the years for mistakes that have led to questioning and searches of innocent people.

Law-abiding Americans should not be treated like terrorists,” the NRA’s Chris Cox said. "To deny law-abiding people due process and their Second Amendment rights based on a secret list is not how we do things in America.”

newsok.com...

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


Call me old fashioned . I dont want to die and fight for my freedoms. Our forefathers already did that.; although if it gets down and dirty I will.

[edit on 30-6-2009 by wonderworld]

reply to post by wonderworld


I have been fighting for my freedoms since I was 13 years old. The only way to be free in this world is to fight for it for the world truly is full of "Kings and Queens who will blind your eyes and steal your dreams"

Black Sabbath with Ronnie James Dio..Heaven and Hell from the Heaven and Hell Album

I have stood up and taken a stand for and against things so many times when others simply won't, but will give up a right, a freedom, a liberty, an opportunity, a thought or notion, to comply and conform to someone in authority who wants them to comply and conform.

Our forefathers for warned us that we would always have to be vigil and on gaurd and prepared to fight for our freedoms or we would loose them.

America is in the position it is today because people stopped long about the mid to late 70's trying to stand up in mass to protest and to band together for better and fairer things.

Whether it was the advant of TV, mind numbing drugs both illegal or legal, the lowering of educational and entertainment standards or political corectness and the indoctrination of the victim mentality where some of us are made to feel guilty for what other people won't do for themselves and there for accept less along with them by giving them a little more at our own expenses...or a combination of all the above, or just plain laziness and fear it doesn't much matter.

America is in a mess and in a jam and real Americans do say "When the going gets tough the tough gets going".

The easiest thing in the world to do is fail.

The hardest thing in the world to do is truly be free.

I say live free or die trying, and pity the fool who stands in the way of mine, because I sure am not going to pity that fool or let them impinge on my freedom.

I truly believe the concept of inalienable rights is conceptual and that is what our forefathers were really trying to give us, the concept of how your rights become inalienable...by watering the tree of liberty from time to time with the blood of patriots, despots and tyrants.

I don't need to live forever but I need to live free, I don't mind dying tomorrow but I want to die free.

That's freedom, and it reigns just as long as you realize that you are, and take responsibility for being it's sovereign.

The only thing to fear is fear itself, they might try, I wish them well, but I for one am happy to give them hell should they stand in the way of me finding my own heaven on earth.





[edit on 30/6/09 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


Government has changed since then. the are no longer here to help the people they want to cover their own butts.

I think another civil war is brewing, this time government has to much to lose. theyve orked hard for decades to meet their warped agenda. They already have all the bases covered

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


Proto, well spoken. I find you in rare form!

I have to disagree with a couple of you who say you have enough guns.

I would NEVER have enough guns! I know, I know. But some hold a certain aesthetic appeal to me, aside from the others which are tools. My only character flaw. (BSBSBSBSBSBSBS!)

You never, ever hear a mechanic saying he has enough tools, do you? You ever hear Hugh Hefner say, "enough women already!"

You never hear a stripper say, "hold off on the dollar bills, boys?"

No!

I guess I've been found clean enough, although I've always been on everyone around me's (fill in the blank)list. Not only am I usually on everyone's (again)list, but usually hold my position right up at the top!

Keep in mind, that although there's a lot of crooked, power-hungry bastards populating DC, there are still thousands of good men, of good character, that will only let things get so far.

The good Americans, Constitutional Americans, when the power hungry think they have it all covered, will underestimate the things that are just underneath the surface.

(again)lists cut both ways.

Originally posted by wonderworld
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

 

Government has changed since then. the are no longer here to help the people they want to cover their own butts.

I think another civil war is brewing, this time government has to much to lose. theyve orked hard for decades to meet their warped agenda. They already have all the bases covered

They weren't really there then to help the people they were there to help themselves.

A lot of our history is pure unadulterated horse pucky.

The Constitutional Congress had to choices before it, elect an American King to serve for live and start a new royal lineage or elect an American President to serve out four year terms elected by the people.

The first President, George Washignton was elected for his first term by the Congress the second term by the people...

Yet it's important to remember that when George Washington was elected by the Constitutional Convention that every man in the room was technically in the running for the job.

Each man wanted the job but none of them trusted anyone but Washington to have the job, even to the point that no one would put themselves forward to be considered as an alternative.

In otherwords they all looked in their own hearts and said, hey if I get my hands on that job the sky is the limit and I don't think I could count on myself to surrender it or not abuse the office.

From there it went all down Hill, by the early 1800's states were trying to break away and Andrew Jackson talked them out of it, by the 1820s things had come out regarding the Treaty of Paris and Ghent and the Masons being so involved in the Government that most Americans at the time believed the Revolution itself was a Mason plot and the Masons had sold out the ideals, and Masonic Lodges all across the nation were burned down by angry citizens and others abandoned by members who rapidly abandoned their membership to get out from under the magnifying glass.

Around the same time the real 13th Amendment to the Constitution came out barring anyone with a title from being in Government...most Lawyers have the title of Esquire so in essence people were saying Lawyers can't be officers of the courts and make the laws too...

By the 1850's States were wanting to break away again, not over the right to own slaves, but over their soveriegn rights as states, the Slavery issue was thrown in later to galvanize Norther support for the war as the Northern States had always stood against slavery.

In the aftermath of the Civil War and the tragic death of Lincoln the original 13th Amendment was quietly ignored though a few copies are in State Capital Buildings that didn't even know they had them until recently when the false 13th Amendment was just enacted without ever proper vote or radification making us all slaves, and making it illegal for slaves to own slaves.

The Northern Military Industrial Complex was born out of the war, the Green Back Dollar was the for runner for the Federal Reserve and the Corporate Government finally took over that had been trying to take over from 1782 ownward.

Shortly after the turn of the Century came the Federal Reserve Act and Americans and the Government no longer controlled our currency.

Private individuals foreign and domestic did and we lost our soveriegnty.

We were manipulated into World War I, manipulated at the Paris Peace conference and by 1931 had to declare Bankruptcy as a Nation putting the United States into recievership which required every State to give up it's own Soveriegn Rights and to incoprorate along with the United States itself, that on that day lost it's Constitution, because the Bankruptcy Court and Contractual Laws supercede Constitutional Law.

Kennedy made an earnest effort to take back the country by coming up with a Silver Backed Currency Plan and trying to get us out of Bankruptcy.

But the corporate Government just keeps racking up our debt to keep fueling the Military Industrial Complex that has fought one war after another in places where it really was none of our business and we didn't really have anything at stake as citizens in places like Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan etc., but American Corporations did and do.

Had you lived in the United States of America between 1782 and 1790...you would have almost but not quite been in the United States the fairy tale textbooks tell you existed.

The Nations never really been free, it's just that the most enslaved of all slaves are the ones who imagine they are free.

In fact most people are so enslaved now they can't even imagine any more that they are free or if they are they are about to loose it.

You are free one way and one way only in this world, when you are prepared to fight and die for your freedom and to do what you want to do.

You know what our Forefathers really found out fighting the Revolutionary War when they sent representatives to the Court of Madrid, the Court of the High Mightyness of the Netherlands, and the Court of Versailles, where King George was also the King of France under the Holy Roman Empire at that time and it was his Court to conclude the peace...

They found out what people will find out at the conclusion of the next revolution when the contract holders, and land owners, and lenders said them down and said alright you beat our armies...this time...but you still owe us $XXX,XXX,XXX,XXX,XXX,XXX,XXX.00 according to our contracts and records and according to these contracts and records we have rights to X, Y, and Z, now how are you going to pay us, and how are you going to protect our rights to what we do own moving forward.

We need to figure that out or there will be more troops on the way soon if we can't come to an agreement.

That's why if you ever read the Treaties that ended the Revolutionary War and the War of 1812 you will see that England, not America really dictated the terms of the treaties of the wars we supposedly won...and if you really read them...you will see it wasn't England...but the Holy Roman, and Roman Empire dictating the treaties through it's Prince Elector which was the first and foremost and most important title King George possessed.

One of his newly Acquired Titles in the Treaty of Paris was Prince Elector and Treasurer of the United States of America...

This nation as great as it is, as diverse as it is, as noble as it sometimes can be has never in fact been free...

I though am not a nation...and I have lived my life free and almost died trying.

What our forefathers did give us that was real was the concept of inalienable rights...they become inalienable when you will die before you give them up.

I am not going to give mine up no matter what, and those that want to try to take them away do not scare me.

Originally posted by dooper
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

 

Proto, well spoken. I find you in rare form!

I have to disagree with a couple of you who say you have enough guns.

I would NEVER have enough guns! I know, I know. But some hold a certain aesthetic appeal to me, aside from the others which are tools. My only character flaw. (BSBSBSBSBSBSBS!)

You never, ever hear a mechanic saying he has enough tools, do you? You ever hear Hugh Hefner say, "enough women already!"

You never hear a stripper say, "hold off on the dollar bills, boys?"

No!

I guess I've been found clean enough, although I've always been on everyone around me's (fill in the blank)list. Not only am I usually on everyone's (again)list, but usually hold my position right up at the top!

Keep in mind, that although there's a lot of crooked, power-hungry bastards populating DC, there are still thousands of good men, of good character, that will only let things get so far.

The good Americans, Constitutional Americans, when the power hungry think they have it all covered, will underestimate the things that are just underneath the surface.

(again)lists cut both ways.

Dooper you are so right you can truly never own too many guns. You never know when or how they might come in handy or when they become a legitimate currency in their own right.

Some guns are real works of art too, and some of them are truly priceless, especially those specially made as gifts for Kings and Queens and Sultans by the gun manufacturers.

I can tell you are the proud father type who would never give up one of your beloved and I hope that family keeps growing and growing.

Just make sure to keep your powder dry friend!

The one thing this idiot Louseydork is making sure of is that anyone who is put on that list can never find out why or have any recourse to get your name off of it. You can't go to court to challenge the listing if they don't have to and won't give you ANY information on anything dealing with it.
Dooper,
I lost my guns in the earth quake..or was it a fire...nope it was that damned UFO abduction..Ya, that's the ticket!!! I also never insult or threaten any politico that I disagree with. I'm very peaceful and I don't need guns to keep me safe when I have so many nice policepersons to protect me!



Zindo