Were You Once An Atheist Too?

Antony Flew Abandons Atheism: Former Atheist Believes in God on Basis of Argument to Design

Who is Antony Flew anyway?

Antony Flew is not just any atheist. For decades, he has been a dominant figure in the philosophy of religion, among the most influential of atheist philosophers. He lectured on philosophy at the University of Oxford and the University of Aberdeen, and subsequently held professorships at the University of Keele and the University of Reading. He is the author of the celebrated essays “Theology and Falsification” and “The Presumption of Atheism”, and many monographs including Atheistic Humanism and Merely Mortal?: Can You Survive Your Own Death?. He has also represented atheism in published oral debates with William Lane Craig, Gary Habermas, and Thomas Warren.

www.existence-of-god.com...

That guy still doesn't embrace Christianity but does believe in God.

Former atheist turned Christian speaks in Edmonton

EDMONTON - Back in 1979, American journalist Lee Strobel got "the worst possible news" he could imagine. His wife had become a Christian!

By asking the tough questions, Strobel hoped to be able to convince his wife Leslie that her Christian faith was misplaced. Instead, it was Strobel whose beliefs were transformed.

www2.canada.com...

A.S.A. Jones' story of conversion from atheism to Christianity makes her a possible member of a rare species: an atheist having long-term experience with both side's arguments who later converted to Christianity purely because of comparing those arguments. Jones' initial conversion to atheism was unremarkable

I was a devout atheist for over twenty years. In July of 1998, I finally managed to see the biblical truths that had managed to elude me. The following is an account of how I went from hardcore skepticism to hardcore worship of the Savior, Jesus Christ.

www.ex-atheist.com...

I probably could find more. The thing I wanted to ask is in the title actually. Were you once an atheist and then found God? Are you an atheist now and considering that God may exist?

I hope I dont get banned...

I am an athiest now, and do not believe in any god.
Ask yourself this question: "If you knew how god does the things he does, and you could also do them yourself, would you consider them god, would you consider yourself god ?"

also,

The whole idea that there is something up there watching, listening, protecting, governing, ordering.... but never there when you truly need them... just dosnt make logical sense to me.

Please dont ban me, I am just voicing my honest opinion.

reply to post by R3KR


Why would you get banned for that? That was a great post. Alot of good questions asked. I just don't understand what you mean when you wrote would I consider them god, would I consider myself God.

Originally posted by jackflap
reply to post by R3KR

 

Why would you get banned for that? That was a great post. Alot of good questions asked. I just don't understand what you mean when you wrote would I consider them god, would I consider myself God.

Banned: I have been warned to tread lightly when it comes to religions and god.

I mean: If you could hypothetically do the things that any god can do, would you consider yourself god ?

In a scientific manor, if someday we become so advanced that we can do everything that god can do, create a universe, heal the ill, make dinosaurs, hear everything at once, be able to perceive the future past and present at the speed of thought ect - would we consider our selves gods ? if that would be the case then would not we be gods ? If we were gods then wouldnt everyone just view everyone else as ... this is the normal way of things ... so we are not gods, we are just like everyone else.

Lot of ifs and hypothetical's but that is what I am proposing.


[edit on 20-6-2009 by R3KR]

[edit on 20-6-2009 by R3KR]

reply to post by R3KR


I don't believe I would. I think I would hope my creation would emulate me and realize I am there. I think to be fair I would let them have control over themselves. I am thinking along the lines of the Biblical God right now. So before I get too deep tell me if you are imagining a bunch of beings able to do miraculous things. And I am just one of many others. Or are we talking about the God of the Bible?

[edit on 20-6-2009 by jackflap]

Originally posted by R3KR
I hope I dont get banned...

I am an athiest now, and do not believe in any god.
Ask yourself this question: "If you knew how god does the things he does, and you could also do them yourself, would you consider them god, would you consider yourself god ?"

also,

The whole idea that there is something up there watching, listening, protecting, governing, ordering.... but never there when you truly need them... just dosnt make logical sense to me.

Please dont ban me, I am just voicing my honest opinion.

Hi R3/

Ask yourself.....Well,I dont know of anyone who can TESTIFY that the World was created by them?
Science can't make up their mind as to HOW the world was created!
First it was a 'BIG BANG' and then who knows what OTHER theory they have come up with!
The Universe,it seems, has No Ending!
In the Words of Stephen Hawkins/// "So long as the universe had a beginning,
we could suppose it had a creator.
But if the universe is really completely self- contained,
having no boundary or edge,
it would have neither beginning nor end: it would simply be.
What place, then, for a creator?"
Stephen Hawking,the Big Bang,

It is at your most of time of ''need'' that God is present!
How else do we at those time of 'Need'', question God?
When one is happy, one does not care for God....so He is not present?

ICXN
helen

Originally posted by jackflap
reply to post by R3KR

 

I don't believe I would. I think I would hope my creation would emulate me and realize I am there. I think to be fair I would let them have control over themselves. I am thinking along the lines of the Biblical God right now. So before I get too deep tell me if you are imagining a bunch of beings able to do miraculous things. And I am just one of many others. Or are we talking about the God of the Bible?

Well I was thinking of either, didnt matter to me which, could be biblical or a bunch of miraculous beings. It would be the same to me. There are ALOT of gods in LOTS of written text around the world, they all do different things for different reasons.

What I was really concieving was that we become all powerful, to do anything we want just by thought.

The bible or other religious writings only go so far, as far as I know there is no writing that talks about the greatness of the universe or time travel. these are things that we know now, however, all of the things written in religious books can be performed today by magicians, we dont consider those people gods do we ? If someone claimed to be god and performed the exact same feats performed in any bible, would you believe them ?

Question: Would you consider a religion with a god that is only 10 years old to be valid ? Or does it have to go back further then 2000 years to be considered a real religion with a real god ?


[edit on 20-6-2009 by R3KR]

Ask yourself.....Well,I dont know of anyone who can TESTIFY that the World was created by them?
Science can't make up their mind as to HOW the world was created!
First it was a 'BIG BANG' and then who knows what OTHER theory they have come up with!
The Universe,it seems, has No Ending!
In the Words of Stephen Hawkins/// "So long as the universe had a beginning,
we could suppose it had a creator.
But if the universe is really completely self- contained,
having no boundary or edge,
it would have neither beginning nor end: it would simply be.
What place, then, for a creator?"
Stephen Hawking,the Big Bang,

It is at your most of time of ''need'' that God is present!
How else do we at those time of 'Need'', question God?
When one is happy, one does not care for God....so He is not present?

ICXN
helen

I understand but I am taking the position of this...
Hypothetically, if we could..... then would you.....

Also - We dont have the ability to comprehend any of the interesting things yet like infinity and such.

Im not offering proof one way or the other.
That could be debated for ever.
Its just my opinion.

[edit on 20-6-2009 by R3KR]

reply to post by R3KR


Hi R3/

Are you asking if we could also become like God?
If you are, then Im happy to tell you that we are ALL in the Process of Theosis:the True purpose of Human life~
This link would explain it much better then I ever could.


Are not ALL called to become like God?
Are we not ALL welcomed into His Kingdom?

the Greek Fathers, following the words of Scripture cited by Christ "I said you are gods" (Ps 82:6, Jn 10:37),
spoke of salvation and redemption primarily in terms of deification (théôsis).
Human beings are called to become, by grace, what God is by nature.
This is summed up neatly by St Athanasius, in the fourth century: "God became man so that we might be made god" (DI 54).

"Our Lord Jesus Christ,
though He was rich,
yet for your sake became poor,
so that by His poverty,
you might become rich" (2 Cor 8:9).
Christ shared our state, so that we might also share His state.
This is also a theme, found in a slightly different form, in the Gospel of John -- in terms of the vision of, and participation in, the glory and unity of God -- themes that are particularly important in late Byzantine theology....Found in the many Teachings of the Early Church Greek Fathers.

Hope that helps?
take care,

ICXN
helen

reply to post by R3KR


If anyone is going to get banned, it's people like me, who rub the stupidity of organized religion in the faces of the very ones who practice it -- so I wouldn't worry too much about getting banned -- as long as I'm able to continue my tirades.

That being said, I'm an atheist (who'd have thought), and I certainly do not accept "philosophical argument" as a method to determine if God is real or fake.

Ultimately, what matters is what can be observed. When somebody shows me God, I'll believe in him. Until then, the religious fringe can say whatever they want -- it means NOTHING. There is no karma, justice, angels, gods, magic, etc. There is only the observable universe, and if you don't like it, tough. That's how it is. Being delusional isn't an acceptable refutation of science.

I'm an atheist who believes in the God borne from the power of human consciousness.

Meaning, I kinda "have a religion", that I "believe", but that belief isn't placed in a singular Christian God, but rather placed in the collective consciousness of people. Who have, incidentally, CREATED deities and Gods and demons and hell.

Reasons I'm not Christian (also addresses some of your concerns)

1) The Bible may be a book of well-meaning quotes and inspirations, but at the same time it provides explanations for occurences of the world that the people in the past didn't understand. It was like the geocentric solar system the Church believed in the 1600s, for which they imprisoned Galileo Galilei for proposing a heliocentric one instead.

NOW, we know the solar system is really heliocentric - we revolve around the sun, and not vice versa - but the Church then construed it as blasphemy. Might we not say many of the "explanations" in the Bible are really mistaken?

2) You say science changes tack. First Big Bang Theory, then... well, whatever you found that said scientists disproved BBT, though I haven't heard of any theory that would greatly disprove BBT yet. (Soon, maybe, with more work.) With regards to that, I believe science is everchanging. It's not necessarily "black" or "white", its not necessarily "a fixed Big Bang Theory" and not "Theory 2", but rather it's an amalgamation of theories.

It's different from the Bible, which ABSOLUTELY stated God created the Universe. Any "new-age" Christians who try to reconcile science with religion i.e. "God created evolution" are really confused. They should read the Bible in detail and stop trying to take the words in there out of context. The two theories cannot and do not gel well, and for that I would choose the one that does, i.e. science, that accepts new theories and disproves old ones through empirical evidence, research and discovery.

3) With that in mind, I believe in the Higher Power created by human consciousness. As many people on ATS have said regarding 2012 and the film that will cause many people to believe in the end of the world - a collective belief will invoke truth into the world. A collective belief that will BRING TO LIFE the end of the world.

In other words, if we all get together, connect hands and GENUINELY believe in a phenomenon or occurance, and we give it our entire devotion and consciousness, we can cause it to become truth. We can CREATE a God. In other words, Christians created a God through eons and eons of devoted belief and worship, and not vice versa.

The Amish community. Jewish. Catholic. Mormon. Non-denominational. Heck, even agnostic. The combined beliefs of a SINGULAR GOD, throughout centuries and centuries of Western civilization, will no doubt give rise to a God that fits many of the visualizations of the worshippers.

It is why when people describe angels or heaven or God, they see the same thing: "Tunnels of light", "loved ones waiting", "a fatherly man"... because these combined beliefs have created a reality that fits into the accounts of all the believers.

4) Hence, God did NOT create the world, but vice versa. (feel free to argue if you wish) At the same time, think about it. If there were no (or few) humans, i.e. 65 millions years ago, when the dinosaurs ruled, and Christianity wasn't present, or at least, wasn't as important as SURVIVAL, would there still have been a God?

No. Because the concept of a God, itself, wouldn't have been borne yet. There would not have been any churches. There would not be stained glass. There would not be crosses. There would not be the notion of "hell", or "Adam and Eve", or "sin", or the infamous "apple". These are all borne WITH the civilization of Man. And since we know genus homo sapiens to have existed BEFORE the dawn of civilized human culture, thus, God did not create Man.

5) It is unfortunate that Christians don't believe that, because humans like to "give reason" to everything - there's a psychological term for this behavior - and thus came up with the idea of Creation to establish an order, for example, The Great Chain of Being in 1600s, which established the order of existence as:

GOD
ANGEL
MAN
BEAST

It's a way of "classification", and "category" that we all experience on a day to day basis. it's a way for pompous humans to say "Hey, I'm better than an animal, but if I sin I'm no better. God created me with INTELLIGENCE higher than animals, so i gotta strive not to fall to that bestial level."

It's more sociological than it is fact. It's the phenomenon where humans like to "feel special" - like they're being WATCHED by God, and being His Child, where he can save you and help you as you pray for him.

It's all peachy and makes people feel good and inspired. Granted, yes, but ultimately, that still isn't a matter of fact.

These five points strongly reinforce my belief in the lack of a singular God or all-powerful deity. It's just how evolution works, and how luck and chance works, that humans became sentient with thought. Primates were lucky, folks. They had joints and limbs that are dextrous and useable (no OTHER animal has that. Think about it and you'll realize so.) and thus allowed them to survive and evolve longer than most other species.

Feel free to voice your opinions.

Originally posted by R3KR

Originally posted by jackflap


You are right magicians can perform what seem to be miracles. Can you remember the story of Moses trying to tell Pharaoh to let his people go? Every miracle that Moses performed for Pharaoh to prove it was God doing the talking, Pharaoh's magicians did in return. Except for when the serpent that Moses conjured up ate the Pharaoh's serpents. After that the miracles were turned up a notch and destruction followed.

I cannot discern what is valid in regards to a young god without consulting the Bible. You see I use the Bible as a way of finding out what is real and what isn't. Some would say that is not valid, some would applaud it and say they do the same thing. I do know that if you read the Bible with the intent of finding the truth, you will find it. Your mind might not be able to accept what it is that the Bible is showing you but it will be there all the same.

[edit on 20-6-2009 by jackflap]

[edit on 20-6-2009 by jackflap]

[edit on 20-6-2009 by jackflap]