Federal Subpoena Seeks Names, Birthdates, Addresses, & Passwords Etc On Web Posters!

Originally posted by tristar
Anyone posting on any public forum is held accountable for any material he or she has made public. No T&C will stand in the way of a court order, its that simple and does not require a law degree to understand that.

I was not suggesting that observance of ATS ~ T&C`s provided anyone with any protection legal or otherwise. Just that as ATS, do not condone illegal acts etc. ,if you are complying with the T&C`s then you aren`t breaking any laws .

Originally posted by pyrytyes



But, but, your honor, I never posted to that site, nor have I ever said such things...Who you gonna get to show that I did, and not some other person, with access to my 'puter? And, NO, I have no idea WHO that other person may be.
Are you SURE it came from my IP?

Or some such as that...

Simple process of your mac address at the least, if you spoof that then, you can read the cpu and motherboard serial numbers and if you have a registered visat or win then your serial numbers is also logged, if your running linux then you revert back to cpu and motherbaord and ram serial numbers. You only need to trace the source of production and work your way through distributor, import or exporting company, business of sale, person who purchased it. These are just the basic methods used when someone is being investigated.

reply to post by burntheships


Remember, tax reasons is the only way the government was able to put mobsters away.

My point is this is an old trick used by the government to do what they want when they have no proof or no law allowing them to do as they please.

You see, once it is allowed for "tax" reasons, it will be allowed for all reason.

It is a slippery slope that we start riding down.

If you post anything to the Internet admitting to a criminal action, inciting others to violence or criminal action, or providing a guideline for them to do that's a written confession, same as any other form of documentation. That responsibility has been an implicit responsibility of Internet usage since it was made available to the public, read your Internet providers regulations sometime.

Not sure if some people on this site are blowing too much steam lately or are genuinely sociopathic but these attitudes of "I am above the law" and "I can do whatever I want to and screw everyone else" scare me far more than TPTB.

reply to post by UmbraSumus


As secret agent woman has posted, admitting to any criminal action or inciting other to violence is a confession. Although the T&C of this site are very clear, ultimately it falls upon common knowledge and rational thinking. If a teenr decides to say everyone seek and kill tristar then obviously he can bee taken to court by me without any hesitation. Usually its more about someone being over sensitive rather than meaning what they say. If and when something happens to tristar, thats when the long arm of the law and the full weight of it is applied.

reply to post by tristar


Not arguing any of the mechanics of the investigation... no one can prove beyond any doubt that I actually typed any of the messages in question.
Is there a "type-printing" expert, as in fingerprint analyst?
I simply did not type the words I am accused of typing...

Another point of contention is Freedom of Speech...Can pretty much say whatever, but acting on it is another matter. If it can be shown that I conspired to do an act, I could be in trouble...but just stating something is not a violation of any law, with a very few exceptions, ie. "fire" in a theater, or threats against the POTUS.

reply to post by mrmonsoon

So you think it was wrong to imprison mobsters who clearly made a living on criminal activity? I'm sure everyone who lost a victim to gangster-related violence, drug dealing and other enterprises would disagree heartily with you.

reply to post by pyrytyes


I see your point, naturally there is no form of proving that you physically typed that or which ever other post, however if the pc in question is physically located at your address then there is no reason of doubt based on evidence and so resulting in what ever the law sees as appropriate.

As for freedom of speech, sure i agree, but if you type a message directed to Mr.Greennosedalien stating that you will hunt him down, then you more or less have stated your intention to create bodily harm. Sure the law can flex both ways, but like i have said, i prefer rational thinking above any heated response. Often enough people are not aware of their actions and reactions that follow after a heated debate or encounter.

Just another scare tactic so people would be afraid to post their true opinions. They obviously used this to set an example and I doubt anything will happen to those people. I doubt they'll even be asked to court because what judge would possibly allow this? Just about everyone in the U.S has posted something on a forum, so are they going to arrest every single citizen of the United States? No way, to much paperwork, to many mouths to feed in the jails and if they wanted to kill us off, then we would already be dead because they would have either poisoned us, nuked us, or whatever else that the imagination brings.

Again, besides the fact this article was brought up yesterday (in a form everyone can view):
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Anyway,

... or abridging the freedom of speech,...

Posted by OP of other thread, N3krostatic (part of article):

"Fear of serious injury cannot alone justify suppression of free speech and assembly. Men feared witches and burnt women. It is the function of speech to free men from the bondage of irrational fears. To justify suppression of free speech, there must be reasonable ground to fear that serious evil will result if free speech is practiced."

*Oh LOL wrong article, but this was still brought up yesterday.

The first amendment still applies...

[edit on 9-6-2009 by shanerz]

The good news is that you, I, we all have an inalienable right to free speech.

What makes it inalienable is when you simply won't surrender it. It's one's own responsibility to never do so.

The Constitution grants us the 'privelage' of free speech. We grant ourselves though whether it is simply a 'privelage' which can be taken away or infringed upon or an 'inalienable' right.

Many of us are not so naive as to think that no day of reckogning is coming. We know that it is. We know that the Government has rapidly been taking our Constitutional 'privelages' away by convincing people to abandon them through unconstitutional laws and actions.

In other words to trick us into alienating or own inalienable rights.

I have been to jail, a few of them over the years. That's my inalienable right!

I have been beaten badly, a few times over the years. That's my inalienable right!

I know I am going to die one day, but I do my best not to pay taxes when and where I can, that's my inalienable right.

I will not alienate myself from my inalienable rights under any circumstances. If you are 6'5 weigh 250 pounds of solid muscle, have a cocked and loaded gun, and a badge and tell me to shut up...well good luck there! You are getting an earful whether you intend to shoot me, beat me or arrest me.

That's how are forefathers discovered their inalienable rights, by not surrending them except over their dead bodies.

They warned us all those years ago, we would be challenged and tested from time to time.

Stop Complaining, just because it's not a Test of the Emergency Broadcast System but a real one.

Be thankful that we all have a chance to PROVE that we DESERVE to be AMERICANS by acting like one for a CHANGE!

I should go in to the spine business!

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


Nice post, all i could add is avoid anything that is avoidable and confront anything that is confrontable .

Originally posted by tristar
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

 

Nice post, all i could add is avoid anything that is avoidable and confront anything that is confrontable .

A very astute, wonderful and poignant thing to add too my friend!

Pick and choose your battles wisely, he who runs away lives to fight another day.

Fools rush in where wise men fear to tread.

Discretion is the better part of valor...

Oh and for the folks at the IRS...why lie, the checks not even in the mail!

Let's do lunch though, your treat Uncle Sam...it's great to have relatives!

reply to post by secretagent woooman


I think that once those who enforce the laws no longer follow them, they are as bad and guilty as an other criminal.

The difference (IMO) is they hide behind blue uniforms/government positions, but thats about it.

reply to post by UmbraSumus


I see your point, even if some others can not.

If while posting on ATS, you follow the rules you agreed to when you joined, then you will be committing no crimes.

If you commit no crime, then, in theory, no one will/can bother you.

"IN THEORY"

I think that the reason the feds are jumping into this area so heavily is that the country is like dry tinder right now. It just takes a good spark to ignite it.
Taxes are an issue that the entire country can rally behind. They want to suppress anything that will unite the united states.

Piss off the people by spending trillions. Then a nobody gives a way out..move to metal coins minted by the gov't. Hell boys we gotta kill this quick!

reply to post by secretagent woooman


So Woooman, why is it on every thread that I've read your post it is on the side of the opposing view? Are you some sort of NeoCon? Or maybe one of the utopia sociallistic fools?
If the government has lied to the people for over 90 years regarding the taxation issue, is it not our right as "The People" to find the truth....But, no lets find excuses to rule "The People" with illegal laws and illegal slavery. But, you'll be safe from all the ills of the world, so you can relax and sit back and watch you reality shows in the illution that your gangters are just the mobs of Chicago, New York and Las Vegas and not in DC.....Dream on.

I think I posted a reply on that......could they be coming for me? I can only say this....."If they want to expose themselve to the truth then bring it on" Because by doing just that exposes the agenda of the government and in turn would change the tea parties into angry mobs storming the DC. It is true, this country is on the verge of exploding, if a Waco or Ruby Ridge happened today I think there would be marches in the streets and "The People" would unite......with all the information coming to light in all other area's NWO, 911 and the such, it won't take much more for the kettle to boil over.

This tantamount to subpoenaing the old men at the cafe griping about the President. So, if I am having coffee with a few friends and I say, "I disagree with Obama's stimulus plan." Are they going to subpoena me and the entire restaurant? Where does this end?

thrashing

On June 8th, 2009 riverrun says:
The more the Feds thrash around and stir this up, the more the people awaken.

Key quote from the indictment:
"Defendants did not report to the IRS any payments made to workers, "either at the true amount or at the bogus amount, ... being the face value of the coin or coins," according to the indictment."

While the Feds say the coin face value is "bogus", the face value is set by Congress so it is what Congress says it is.
The general issue of paper vs. coin value has already been to the Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court ruled in Thompson vs. Butler, volume 95:
"A coin dollar is worth no more for the purposes of tender in payment of an ordinary debt than a note dollar. The law has not made the note a standard of value any more than coin. It is true that in the market, as an article of merchandise, one is of greater value than the other; but as money, that is to say, as a medium of exchange, the law knows no difference beteeen them."

The coins in the current case are non-numismatic circulating US Mint coins authorized by Congress in 1985. The standards and value were set by Congress and that is the law.

www.dailypaul.com...