Large Hadron Collider to start again

reply to post by Eitimzevinten


I have a view of physics whereas mass is a function of time. Low mass, almost flat space, almost no time.

Time is a function of mass, same basic thing.

They collide particles with enough energy, the sharp gradient just may result in a phenomenon they don't anticipate.

BUT. You likely know a lot more than I do, so I prefer your hypothesis as far as results.

[edit on 5-6-2009 by dooper]

reply to post by dooper


At the end of the day, nobody really knows anything when it comes to physics. Its not like biology where you can look at a cell or chemistry where you have completely tangible chemicals which can result in easily documented effects.

Gravity is invisible yet everyone assumes it HAS to be there. Just drop something and watch it fall to the ground. Its THAT simple but it can't be that simple. For some its curved space (they can "prove" with math), for others its a force regulated by a particle (they can "prove" with math), for me its a special effected form of em (math "proof" upcoming) and I'm sure you have a mental picture or some drawings lying around to provide a case for your idea. Upon trying to find out more about physics, the only thing we really learn is that we have no idea.

In all likelihood, CERN is going to provide results that don't add up to anyone's calculations and is just going to make more questions that need to be answered but can't be because we still haven't answered the primary questions. Its all really just a bunch of educated guesses.

reply to post by dooper


Well I believe that time is directly related to the movement of all matter and vice versa. I think that time is a direct result of this. For example with time dilation I think that could occur because the movement of matter at high speeds or under high gravity becomes very slow or very fast, so fast that there is no more oscillations or frequency, the frequency then becomes what I call "Zero Phase", which could be depicted by a simple stationary line, I think that open strings (in string theory) could potentially prove this one day.

I just see our perception of reality tethered to the EM spectrum. If we go beyond gamma rays then we may be able to manipulate the very fabric of quantum foam that is omnipotent in the Multiverse(s).

The LHC will just smash particles and they will see if they can view the expulsion of particles in a fleeting instant (using ATLAS et al) to justify the 'God particle'.

I hope they don't find this particle emission as it will throw the whole of physics into dismay and their happy model of particle matter they've used for centuries, will need to reworked from scratch

Wave-particle duality has been a cop out for ages, without them ever truly knowing what the true nature of mass is.

The Standard Model for matter they've used since Rutherford experiments, just describes the basic nature of matter from quarks/leptons/electrons to photons. This i believe is fundamentally wrong as everything is just EM waves. Our eyes are spectrum analysers and our brains interpret these input waves to form our own 'virtual' reality.

Something called the Pauli Exclusion Principle means we can't walk through walls as two electron orbits can't occupy the same space, and the closer the orbits become, the more the repulsion, hence you'd bang your head against the wall. If you could vibrate your body to higher frequencies, then i don't see why you wouldn't be able to walk through walls. Just means you'd have to have Tesla coils strapped to the side of your head to rip apart the localised EM field.

Basically, if we could vibrate a piece of string so fast it's frequency goes beyond anything we can possibly measure with today's technology, then that string will resonate with the quantum foam that feeds all 'matter' around us. Extra dimensions will then open as a gateway is formed between the strings vibration and the extra dimensions that must exist other than the three our primeval brains can perceive or indeed comprehend.

Here's a thought experiment for you...

If the Sun suddenly exploded in an instant, would it take 8 minutes for the Earth to spin off into space? Or is the effect of gravity and the missing graviton faster than the speed of light?

Also, if you were in a car and travelled faster than the speed of light, when you looked in the rear-view mirror, what would you see?

Just wanted to add that i think dark matter must exist and is created by black holes that spew out neutrinos, which are massless wavelets of quantum energy.

The net affect of all these trillions and zillions of neutrinos created every millisecond forms a pressure wave that radiates from black holes and feeds the cosmos like a galactic glow lamp.

Now this is the interesting bit....

What if this pressure wave has some residual impact on matter so anything in its way feels a force, like Newtonian action-reaction; much like a boulder in a stream will block the flow on one side but they'd be a stagnation on the down-stream side.

So i believe gravity comes from this neutrino pressure wave from space and PUSHES us down into the Earth's crust FROM ABOVE. The mass of the Earth does NOT create g = 10m/s-1 as we perceive it, instead Earth blocks neutrinos from one side and people on the antipodean side will have more neutrinos hitting them from above and so are forced into the Earth, stopping us floating off into space.

Originally posted by PrisonerOfSociety
Here's a thought experiment for you...

If the Sun suddenly exploded in an instant, would it take 8 minutes for the Earth to spin off into space? Or is the effect of gravity and the missing graviton faster than the speed of light?

Also, if you were in a car and travelled faster than the speed of light, when you looked in the rear-view mirror, what would you see?

It would take atleast 8 minutes and under no circumstance could it happen sooner.

I'm gonna assume its a vehicle that nulls inertial effects by having a specially resonated passenger and vehicle. At any rate, you're moving too fast for the light to reflect off your mirror or anything else so you infact see nothing. Upon dropping back down below the speed of light, you'd observe the light reflected from the objects around you and would not have any idea of what you just went past and boldly proclaim that you invented a "time-machine" because you went relatively faster than what the human concept of time is based on.

If these large colliders are to prove themselves useful instruments, they'll answer any crazy particle speculation. If they don't provide a definitive answer, it is indeed time to start from scratch. I'm also not too high on the idea that their "proof" for these particles are the effects they observe on matter that has "no other possible explanation".

reply to post by PrisonerOfSociety

Earth blocks neutrinos from one side and people on the antipodean side will have more neutrinos hitting them from above and so are forced into the Earth, stopping us floating off into space.

Maybe I am misunderstanding you but if not then I am not sure if I believe that postulate. It seems that you are saying that this neutrino wave is only coming from one direction (assumed by your statement of a planetary body,ie; Earth blocking the flow of the wave from one side), if that is the case and the cause of gravity then wouldn't the side that isn't getting hit by this wave lack gravity? Also I have a hard time seeing how in 3 dimensional space with roughly 96-98% dark matter that these waves only come from one side, it makes no sense. Again I may be misunderstanding you so do not take this as a knock or argument, I am just trying to have a civilized debate on theoretical physics.

Originally posted by PsykoOps
True story: when the LHC first went online few geek friends of mine actually had the brilliant idea of buying a crowbar for a weapon. Just in case some face hugging alien parasites come from another dimension.
For non-gamers: that's the plot from half-life

That's funny! Your description reminds of the movie "From Beyond." It came out in the eighties and was a damn good flick if you haven't seen it. The scientists developed this machine that opens up other dimensions and with it all hell breaks loose, and oh yeah, flesh eating creatures appear as well. I'm kind of curious of what the Cern team discovers.

[edit on 6-6-2009 by Jakes51]

Perhaps there are some practicing physicists out there who can answer my question: What exactly is so Earth-shattering about this project exactly? What kind of practical applications could come of discoveries made in particle physics?

Personally, I think the media has over-hyped CERN as if it is the Manhattan project of the 21st century. The discoveries made at CERN will most likely have no impact on the average person's life, yet they're giving the impression that it will.

If anyone is knowledgeable about this subject, please enlighten me.

reply to post by jkrog08


Thanks jkrog, I found it. It was the 'Superconducting Super Collider (SSC) in Waxahatchie,Tx whish is 3 times bigger than 'Cern' but apparently has been sold to 'JB Hunt' possibly as a data storage complex.

en.wikipedia.org...

Cancellation
During the design and the first construction stage, a heated debate ensued about the high cost of the project. In 1987, Congress was told the project could be completed for $4.4 billion, but by 1993 the cost projection exceeded $12 billion. A recurring argument was the contrast with NASA's contribution to the International Space Station (ISS), which was of a similar amount.[citation needed] Critics of the project argued that the US could not afford both of them.


A high-level schematic of the lab landscape during the final planning phases.Congress canceled the project in 1993. Many factors contributed to the cancellation: rising cost estimates; poor management by physicists and Department of Energy officials; the end of the need to prove the supremacy of American science with the collapse of the Soviet Union; belief that many smaller scientific experiments of equal merit could be funded for the same cost; Congress's desire to generally reduce spending; the reluctance of Texas Governor Ann Richards;[1] and President Bill Clinton's initial lack of support for a project begun during the administrations of Richards's predecessor, Bill Clements, and Clinton's predecessors, Ronald Reagan and George H. W. Bush. However, in 1993, Clinton tried to prevent the cancellation by asking Congress to continue "to support this important and challenging effort" through completion because "abandoning the SSC at this point would signal that the United States is compromising its position of leadership in basic science".[2]

The closing of the SSC had adverse consequences for the southern part of the Dallas–Fort Worth Metroplex, and resulted in a mild recession, most evident in those parts of Dallas which lay south of the Trinity River.[3] When the project was canceled, 22.5 km (14 miles) of tunnel and 17 shafts to the surface were already dug, and nearly two billion dollars had already been spent on the massive facility.[4]


[edit] Comparison to the Large Hadron Collider
The SSC's planned collision energy of 40 TeV was almost triple the 14 TeV of its recently completed European counterpart, the Large Hadron Collider at CERN in Geneva. The LHC was less expensive to build because, in addition to its smaller size, the LHC took over the existing engineering infrastructure and 27 km long underground cavern of the Large Electron-Positron Collider.


[edit] Current status of site

Panoramic view of the SSC siteAfter the project was canceled, the main site was deeded to Ellis County, Texas, and the county tried numerous times to sell the property. The property was finally sold in August 2006 to an investment group led by the late J.B. Hunt.[5] Collider Data Center has contracted with GVA Cawley to market the site as a tier III or tier IV data center.[6]

reply to post by TruthWarrior


Actualy , the scientists who work at the CERN installation and on the LHC itself, have worked closely with, and pay homage to the american scientists who have preceeded them. Most of the truely brilliant minds in the feild of physics actualy see the science as far more important than nationality. Although its true that many scientists are hungry for discovery, the large majority feel that as long as discovery and enlightenment occur, it matters very little where they occur and to whom.

reply to post by GeeGee


Incedentaly , Im not a physics proffessor, but I can tell you the following:
The LHC is basicaly a machine which has been devised to provide an insight into what the universe was like just moments after the big bang. The science boffins predict that the Higgs boson (a theoretical particle of some sort which is supposed to be the thing which gave other particles mass) may only have been recordable at such a point in history. The reasoning for that assumption can only really be explained by piles and piles of formulae .However theres so much we dont even have an inkling clue about from that period of universal history , that to even have a glimpse of that past could provide answers to a hell of a lot of questions. Most famous of which being , how the particles we know today , came to have mass in the first place.
The reason its such a massive deal , is that if we could understand a bit more about how things came to be as they are, it could unlock a new understanding of the wider universe, the passage of time, the interactions between matter and energy and so on. This could be one of the truely staggeringly important moments in scientific history. Imagine what improvements could be made if we just had clean free energy for instance? Theres no end to the possibilities that this expiriment could open up, and I am champing at the bit to find out what happens next !

Reply to post by PsykoOps

I already got my crow bar primed and ready for the face huggers.
They won't take me alive, thats for certain


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

reply to post by TrueBrit


Nicely done, in searching for the alpha moments, we brought ourselves to the omega moments.

Roll the old time wheel over on the 22nd, and let another batch of monkeys delude themselves with complexity.

eeee ee eeee aww aw awwwww
[flings poo]

Originally posted by dooper
reply to post by Eitimzevinten

 

They ever get a strong field compression of the electron of a hydrogen atom reducing it's orbit, and they just may have a micro black hole.

But if not, we still can hope for a space/time tear to discourage their continuing folly.

Idiots.

YOU call them idiots????!!???
RICH!!!

reply to post by TheTilde


Maybe that was a bit strong, but our scientists have a penchant for pushing the envelope and delving into things that they frequently have no idea of what the outcome will be.

Like a kid that climbs on his Dad's car and jumps off. That went well, so he climbs an eight foot ladder and jumps. Rattled his teeth, but he's only whetted his appetite and manages to climb onto the roof to jump.

Eventually, he's going to break something.

Even until the last moment before exploding our first nuclear device, our physicists present were still betting on whether or not the chain reaction, once started, would stop or continue to disintegrate our planet.

No one knew for sure what was going to happen.

So they pushed the button anyway.

It's this mentality in chemistry, biophysics, nuclear physics, medicine, and organic chemistry that scares the living **** out of me.

Whether or not they can manifest the Bosun particle will not make our lives any better, and will only create more questions if they can manifest the bosun particle or evidence thereof.

Dark energy? Hell, we have all the dark energy we want, right here on earth, and it can be studied at length right now.

Advancements in physics are held back because our physicists learn by rote and teach the same. And the way our laws of physics are currently worded are incorrect and misleading.

You can only play in the box.

You dare not look over the side and see what's really there. As you're peeking, like a crab climbing out of the bucket, the others will pull you back in.

Just a damned shame.

it doesnt matter how close to the point of the big bang we get. at the end of the day all we are observing is the reaction not the cause. so we can split hairs about what the make up of the universe and this reality is made up of but we can never fully understand what caused it to come into being in the first place. yes we can speculate and theorize, but whats the point if we can never prove any of it. all the tools we use to measure the universe are OF this universe. so the test is polluted from the get go. my point is that its a waste of time. its like having 2 mirrors side by side and looking into eternity. as long as we look there will always be questions. but i guess thats what we humans do best ask questions... until we ask the wrong question that is.....

reply to post by TiM3LoRd


Curiosity killed the cat; let's just hope it's not Schrödinger's Cat

I see humanity as living in a cave. Each one of us has a candle where we can see small segments of the caves wall. It is just a matter of time before one of us finds where the light switch is and thus illuminate the true beauty of our existence.

That will be the moment we can leave the nest of Mother Earth and become free spirits to explore the stars.

As Humans, it is our Royal right to experiment with the unknown

when is it going to be activated? when is it going to start? nowhere in the article does it say when


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reply to post by jkrog08


Thanks for the curiosity jkrog08

I've attached a picture to try to explain my explanation. All the arrows pointing inwards towards the Earth are the neutrino pressure wave that flow throughout the universe from ALL directions and are creating from black holes and radioactive decay from stars in general.

Many are absorbed by the Earth, so the net effect felt by the human at the north pole, is a wave pushing them into the Earth. Basically, the wave pressure felt on the head from above is greater than the pressure wave felt at the feet from below, because of the absorption.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/b74962ce1eb0.png[/atsimg]

This is a picture of an abandoned neutrino detector in Russia (Source). I'm curious that it is abandoned and so they must have found the existence of neutrinos and have utilised them for their technology.....perhaps

Addendum: This is just my 0.02

Regards
PoS