Why Not Tax Religions?, page 1
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ATS Members have flagged this thread 4 times


reply posted on 4-6-2009 @ 10:27 AM by ImaginaryReality1984
reply to post by thisguyrighthere



Well this is the thing. What constitutes a religion? Why does it need a certain amount of followers to be called a religion? Simple fact is that a religion is a belief system held by a person. So either we should all be tax exempt or none of us should be, unless we are a charity because that has obvious logical benefits for people. I support the second option.


reply posted on 4-6-2009 @ 10:34 AM by ImaginaryReality1984
reply to post by thisguyrighthere



I don't mean to be mean, but can we not turn this into a debate about taxes at large please. This is about the tax exempt status of religion, that makes no sense. Why should they be exempt just because they believe a guy sits on a cloud in a heaven?


reply posted on 4-6-2009 @ 10:35 AM by WickettheRabbit
reply to post by thisguyrighthere



This isn't the thread to debate the meaning of the Constitution, but I will kindly disagree with most of your statement.

If you'd like to fill out the proper paperwork, you can establish yourself as a tax-exempt entity. You will be required to keep books on everything. If it's worth it to you, do it.

Also, there are plenty of tax-exempt charities that have HUGE CASH in reserve in addition to paying their chairpeople, workers, and consultants big salaries.


reply posted on 4-6-2009 @ 10:37 AM by WickettheRabbit
reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984



Uh-oh. Your bias is showing. It sounds like you are starting to bash.

Do you really need another thread for that?

Maybe you were referring to Shinto gods?



reply posted on 4-6-2009 @ 10:44 AM by autowrench
reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984



I wholeheartedly agree with you. What I mean is this, if a Church, or it's members, talk or push politics in any way, or, if they lobby in any way, or otherwise play in the political arena, they should be taxed like the rest of us. Pay for play, as it were. The churches around here look like a fortress, or a prison, and sit on the nicest ground in the county, all tax free.


reply posted on 4-6-2009 @ 10:46 AM by wclv13
reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984



I was actually agreeing with you. My religion is Hedonistic (ie I drink beer, among many other so called vices)

Hear Hear, tis my Religion. My Church is the local bar I hang out at, why are they taxed? Why can't I claim the money I donate to them as tithing thus not be taxed?


reply posted on 4-6-2009 @ 10:47 AM by WickettheRabbit
reply to post by autowrench



Actually, churches of any religion run the risk of losing their tax exempt status if they push politics from the pulpit (or stage :lol.

It mostly never happens because complaints are not lodged and investigations don't happen.


reply posted on 4-6-2009 @ 11:03 AM by fraterormus
I think there are two fundamental reasons why Religious Organizations are granted Tax Exempt Status in the United States.

1.) Religions are generally either Not-For-Profit or Non-Profit organizations. In cases like The Church of Scientology, this is clearly not the case. Nor is it generally the case in Charismatic Churches where God told the Reverend that he needed 16 BMWs, 5 mansions, and a yacht to perform his saintly mission on earth. Even in the case of Non-Denominational Christian Churches that find a need to own majority market share of TV & Radio stations in their region, in addition to building dozens of multi-million dollar "Retreat Centers". Let us not forget the more fringe groups like The Summit Lighthouse Church that sees fit to spend the money they gain on building Fallout Shelters and amassing large arsenals of guns. However, you cannot throw out the baby with the bathwater or toss the entire batch of apples because of a few bad ones. As long as the majority of religions apply their revenue from parishioners to Cost of Operations and use the excess to support charities, then this Tax Exempt Status should remain intact for all Religious Groups, even those that clearly abuse the privilege.

2.) Separation of Church and State, plain and simple. Do you think it would be right for Government (or the I.R.S. specifically) monitoring the sources of Religious revenues? It would be horrifically invasive if the I.R.S. kept lists of what people were giving money to what religious institutions, and that is precisely what would have to happen if Religious Organizations did not have Tax Exempt Status. If the State decided that the Moonies, for example, needed to persecuted, they could just review I.R.S. records to get a round-up list of all Moonies, or those sympathetic to the Church of Reverend Moon, and arrest them. One only need look at the Holocaust of the last Century to see what happens when the government is able to identify the membership of a particular Religion. In order for there to be absolute Freedom of Religion, which is a protected right of our Constitution, then there has to be anonymity in Religious Belief/Affiliation.

And as far as what constitutes a Religious Organization, that's not really for the I.R.S. or Government to decide. To obtain Federal 501(c)(3) Tax Exempt Status, it is really simple and basic. All you need are three people to sign the paperwork and file a basic tenets of belief and organizational structure. Because of this, there are Religious Organizations of every persuasion, some bordering the ridiculous, but that is their right. It's not for any one of us to deny the right to pursue any one group's religious beliefs just because it doesn't seem like a very good Religion to us. Hey, the Church of the Subgenius is pretty far out there, but they deserve the same rights as everyone else.

(Also, revenue that is gained by Religious Organizations from non-related business *IS* taxable by the I.R.S. Tax Exempt Status only pertains to revenue from donations by parishioners or from Church-related fund-raisers such as bake sales and car washes. If the Church opens a Printing Business or a Web Design Business or operates a Commercial Radio Station, then the revenue that is gained by those business are taxable, just like everybody else.)


reply posted on 4-6-2009 @ 11:29 AM by ImaginaryReality1984
Originally posted by WickettheRabbit
reply to
post by ImaginaryReality1984



Uh-oh. Your bias is showing. It sounds like you are starting to bash.

Do you really need another thread for that?

Maybe you were referring to Shinto gods?


My bias isn't there at all, i include every and all tax exempt religion. My comment about the cloud was slight comedy, sorry it that upsets you.


reply posted on 4-6-2009 @ 11:31 AM by ImaginaryReality1984
Originally posted by WickettheRabbit
reply to
post by autowrench



Actually, churches of any religion run the risk of losing their tax exempt status if they push politics from the pulpit (or stage :lol.

It mostly never happens because complaints are not lodged and investigations don't happen.


This is a completely false statement. Many religions involve themselves in politics very often. From the pro choice and pro life argument to the comments on the middle east by the church or england. Your stance has no merit because religions comment on politics very often.


reply posted on 4-6-2009 @ 11:38 AM by ImaginaryReality1984
Originally posted by fraterormus
I think there are two fundamental reasons why Religious Organizations are granted Tax Exempt Status in the United States.

1.) Religions are generally either Not-For-Profit or Non-Profit organizations. In cases like The Church of Scientology, this is clearly not the case. Nor is it generally the case in Charismatic Churches where God told the Reverend that he needed 16 BMWs, 5 mansions, and a yacht to perform his saintly mission on earth. Even in the case of Non-Denominational Christian Churches that find a need to own majority market share of TV & Radio stations in their region, in addition to building dozens of multi-million dollar "Retreat Centers". Let us not forget the more fringe groups like The Summit Lighthouse Church that sees fit to spend the money they gain on building Fallout Shelters and amassing large arsenals of guns. However, you cannot throw out the baby with the bathwater or toss the entire batch of apples because of a few bad ones. As long as the majority of religions apply their revenue from parishioners to Cost of Operations and use the excess to support charities, then this Tax Exempt Status should remain intact for all Religious Groups, even those that clearly abuse the privilege.


Why? So they can use their funds for upkeep of their buildings and the excess for charity? Well forgive me but i think they do not need exempt status for the upkeep on their organisation. Corporations don't have this status so why should religion? If they can't make enough for upkeep then obviously people don't believe enough. More importantly i again state why do they need buildings in the first place, religiion is supposed to be in the individual, not the building of worship.

Originally posted by fraterormus
2.) Separation of Church and State, plain and simple. Do you think it would be right for Government (or the I.R.S. specifically) monitoring the sources of Religious revenues?


They monitor the revenue of corporations and individuals so why not?


Originally posted by fraterormus
And as far as what constitutes a Religious Organization, that's not really for the I.R.S. or Government to decide.


But they do decide it. If they do not then i can start a religion right now, that includes only myself and be tax exempt now can't i. I'm not a US citizen but the same applies to every country in this case.

Originally posted by fraterormus
(Also, revenue that is gained by Religious Organizations from non-related business *IS* taxable by the I.R.S. Tax Exempt Status only pertains to revenue from donations by parishioners or from Church-related fund-raisers such as bake sales and car washes. If the Church opens a Printing Business or a Web Design Business or operates a Commercial Radio Station, then the revenue that is gained by those business are taxable, just like everybody else.)


Absolutely but donations make a great deal and the ways around the other donations are easy to do. If you think the mafia are good at money laundering you should see the churches. I would love an audit of the catholic church, i pick on them simply because they seem to have the greatest money per paritioner.

Sorry for multiple posts, my broswer is having a hissy fit.


reply posted on 4-6-2009 @ 11:44 AM by jd140
Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984
Originally posted by WickettheRabbit
reply to
post by autowrench



Actually, churches of any religion run the risk of losing their tax exempt status if they push politics from the pulpit (or stage :lol.

It mostly never happens because complaints are not lodged and investigations don't happen.


This is a completely false statement. Many religions involve themselves in politics very often. From the pro choice and pro life argument to the comments on the middle east by the church or england. Your stance has no merit because religions comment on politics very often.


That is why he wrote that last sentance. If you stop jumping on every little thing and actually read a post you would have seen that.

Reread, apply reading comprehenstion, post again and apologize for not doing this in the first place.
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